Mary's role in Second Coming

[aball1035]

I just finished St. Louis de Montfort’s True Devotion to Mary and he writes of how Christ came to Earth the first time through Mary, and so He will do the same the second time.

I’m wondering how this will happen through Mary the second time?

 

[Eucharisted]

He was talking about Mary as Mediatrix of all graces.

 

[mawatrucki]

I just finished St. Louis de Montfort’s True Devotion to Mary and he writes of how Christ came to Earth the first time through Mary, and so He will do the same the second time.

I’m wondering how this will happen through Mary the second time?

Well Mary has been appearing a lot lately all over the world and warning people about what would happen if they don’t change their lives. She seems to be the voice in the desert shouting out “make way for the Lord!” In the book of Revelation it talks about how Moses and Elijah will come and then they get killed and then raised back to life (or something I never actually read all of Revelation but I’ll get there.) I suppose Mary represents Elijah and Jesus is Moses because He has come as well to preach the truth. tlig.org

 

[fulbert4605]

Well Mary has been appearing a lot lately all over the world and warning people about what would happen if they don’t change their lives. She seems to be the voice in the desert shouting out “make way for the Lord!” In the book of Revelation it talks about how Moses and Elijah will come and then they get killed and then raised back to life (or something I never actually read all of Revelation but I’ll get there.) I suppose Mary represents Elijah and Jesus is Moses because He has come as well to preach the truth. tlig.org

Be careful here. Some of these Marian apparitions are not approved of by the Catholic Church (local bishop makes the call). Garabandal, Bayside, Medjugorje are not approved of by the Church.

Regarding the Second Coming, i thought when Jesus ascended into Heaven, it was said so it was also that He would come again.

The two old prophets in Revelation of whom you speak are understood to be not Moses and Elijah but Henoch and Elijah.

 

[mawatrucki]

Be careful here. Some of these Marian apparitions are not approved of by the Catholic Church (local bishop makes the call). Garabandal, Bayside, Medjugorje are not approved of by the Church.

Regarding the Second Coming, i thought when Jesus ascended into Heaven, it was said so it was also that He would come again.

The two old prophets in Revelation of whom you speak are understood to be not Moses and Elijah but Henoch and Elijah.

Well I still believe that those apparitions are real regardless if it is approved or not.

Thanks for correcting me like I said I never actually read all of Revelation.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

Well I still believe that those apparitions are real regardless if it is approved or not.

Thanks for correcting me like I said I never actually read all of Revelation.

FYI- Catholics are not required to believe in any apparitions, even Fatima, but Catholics are forbidden from believing that God can’t visit us on Earth.

That said, I never understood why this was such a big deal.

If you’re a good Catholic- if you live your daily life well- why even worry about the end of the world? It just seems to me like it’s just a reason to get uppity, and it smacks of the Protestants’ constant “rapture” talk.

 

[Jacafamala]

FYI- Catholics are not required to believe in any apparitions, even Fatima, but Catholics are forbidden from believing that God can’t visit us on Earth.

That said, I never understood why this was such a big deal.

If you’re a good Catholic- if you live your daily life well- why even worry about the end of the world? It just seems to me like it’s just a reason to get uppity, and it smacks of the Protestants’ constant “rapture” talk.

If the mother of Our Lord is appearing, and the apparitions are approved then I believe there’s every reason to pay attention.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

If the mother of Our Lord is appearing, and the apparitions are approved then I believe there’s every reason to pay attention.

But what reasons are those?

Mary basically says “be good, kids.” And, if you’re good, you have nothing to worry about. So why worry?

 

[bpbasilphx]

I would say simply that the author of this book was simply expressing an opinion–no more, no less, not even a theologoumenon.

 

[Jacafamala]

But what reasons are those?

Mary basically says “be good, kids.” And, if you’re good, you have nothing to worry about. So why worry?

Sancto Spiritu, I would agree with you in as much as a soul in the state of grace needn’t worry. But if a one loves their mother, and adores Our Lord, then of course you would want to know all abut these things. Mary has come for a purpose. She’s given us many gifts; the Rosary, the Scapular. In addition, she’s explained what Our Lord wants and also what will happen if these things don’t happen. I think it’s sad that the apparitions aren’t taken seriously enough within the Body of Christ today.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

And, like I said, if you’re already praying the Rosary every day and all that, then heeding the “warnings” (it never seems like these apparitions have anything positive to tell us), won’t change anything in your daily prayer routine.

 

[Jacafamala]

And, like I said, if you’re already praying the Rosary every day and all that, then heeding the “warnings” (it never seems like these apparitions have anything positive to tell us), won’t change anything in your daily prayer routine.

Then, the tears our lady wept, on a hundred and one different occasions don’t inspire your prayer? When your mother weeps, you don’t want to know about it? When she comes to tell of impending chastisements, you don’t care to listen? Because you’re already doing everything you can?

This is on par with saying, one needn’t read the Gospel, because they are already Christian. Isn’t it?

 

[Catholictrain]

And, like I said, if you’re already praying the Rosary every day and all that, then heeding the “warnings” (it never seems like these apparitions have anything positive to tell us), won’t change anything in your daily prayer routine.

I essentially agree with you, except to say that all of us need encouragement and maybe a little push to go beyond what we normally do… Reading St. Louis de Montfort does that for me. I get very enthused by his writing. Here is something he wrote in “True Devotion” :

“To sum up, God wants His Mother to be better known, and to be more loved
and honored that she has ever been. … Then they will see this lovely
Star of the Sea as clearly as their faith permits; and she will guide them
into a safe harbor despite all perils. They will know the grandeurs of
their sovereign lady. They will consecrate themselves entirely to her, as
subjects, her slaves of love. They will know the delight of her favors,
her tenderness, her motherly care. And they will love her as simply as
children love their mother.” - St. Louis de Montfort

Pretty clear to me… let’s all do our best to help spread the message…,

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

Then, the tears our lady wept, on a hundred and one different occasions don’t inspire your prayer? When your mother weeps, you don’t want to know about it? When she comes to tell of impending chastisements, you don’t care to listen? Because you’re already doing everything you can?

This is on par with saying, one needn’t read the Gospel, because they are already Christian. Isn’t it?

No, it’s absolutely not on par with the Gospels.

The Gospels are inspired writings and we know they are. These apparitions are claimed by every Tom, Dick, and Harry around the world. Picking the wheat from the chaff is very difficult.

And to be honest, I really don’t want to hear about these chastisements. Why? Because constantly hearing about them is so negative. It’s so disheartening. I want to live my life in happy devotion, secure in the knowledge that I am a good Catholic.

I know people who just feed on the negativity of the “chastisement” thing. They have this morbid fascination with everything negative. Everything bad that happens is the beginning of the “chastisement:” Someone even told me that the recession was payback for abortion. There’s devotion and then there’s ridiculousness. Some of these people try to guess which comet will hit the Earth, or which war will end in nuclear arms. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Jacafamala]

No, it’s absolutely not on par with the Gospels.

The Gospels are inspired writings and we know they are. These apparitions are claimed by every Tom, Dick, and Harry around the world. Picking the wheat from the chaff is very difficult.

And to be honest, I really don’t want to hear about these chastisements. Why? Because constantly hearing about them is so negative. It’s so disheartening. I want to live my life in happy devotion, secure in the knowledge that I am a good Catholic.

I know people who just feed on the negativity of the “chastisement” thing. They have this morbid fascination with everything negative. Everything bad that happens is the beginning of the “chastisement:” Someone even told me that the recession was payback for abortion. There’s devotion and then there’s ridiculousness. Some of these people try to guess which comet will hit the Earth, or which war will end in nuclear arms. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

I didn’t say apparitions are on par with the Gospels. You misunderstood my intent. Perhaps that was because this was a poor analogy, because it was a loaded one from the start. I should have seen that. I didn’t. Ok, here’s a better one. For a Catholic to ignore our Lady’s appearances is on par with a good cook who no longer desires to read cook books.

In addition, I’m only referring to Church approved apparitions.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

I didn’t say apparitions are on par with the Gospels. You misunderstood my intent. Perhaps that was because this was a poor analogy, because it was a loaded one from the start. I should have seen that. I didn’t. Ok, here’s a better one. For a Catholic to ignore our Lady’s appearances is on par with a good cook who no longer desires to read cook books.

In addition, I’m only referring to Church approved apparitions.

Perhaps it’s because that cook already knows all of the recipes by heart!

And about Church-approved apparitions- Catholics are not obliged to believe those, either.

 

[Jacafamala]

Sancto Spiritu: I know people who just feed on the negativity of the “chastisement” thing. They have this morbid fascination with everything negative. Everything bad that happens is the beginning of the “chastisement:” Someone even told me that the recession was payback for abortion. There’s devotion and then there’s ridiculousness. Some of these people try to guess which comet will hit the Earth, or which war will end in nuclear arms. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Well, it isn’t the fault of the apparitions that people do this.

And anyway, when I read the Gospels, I find a lot of scary and troublesome things that Our Lord has to tell us. I don’t find the Gospels to be about happiness and contentment, peace and flowers. And rainbows. No. Our Lord had some hard words for us. But in the end, we know who has the victory, and Mary tells us the same in the apparitions.

 

[Sancto_Spiritu]

Well, it isn’t the fault of the apparitions that people do this.

And anyway, when I read the Gospels, I find a lot of scary and troublesome things that Our Lord has to tell us. I don’t find the Gospels to be about happiness and contentment, peace and flowers. And rainbows. No. Our Lord had some hard words for us. But in the end, we know who has the victory, and Mary tells us the same in the apparitions.

Yes, there are scary things in the Gospels, but nothing that “foretells” the future. It seems to me that, many times, the Marian apparition enthusiasts try to foretell the future by saying this or that is going to happen.

I think that, since Catholicism doesn’t buy into the whole “Revelation rapture” bit, that some people have used the “chastisements” to replace the “end times” in order just to have something to be scared of.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

If the mother of Our Lord is appearing, and the apparitions are approved then I believe there’s every reason to pay attention.

Techinically apparitions are not approved, they are deemed worthy of belief.

They are not binding and no one is required to believe in any of them. A faithful Catholic can believe that none of the apparitions that are deemed worthy of belief are real.

 

[Jacafamala]

Perhaps it’s because that cook already knows all of the recipes by heart!

One can never know them all. And there is always room for improvement.

And about Church-approved apparitions- Catholics are not obliged to believe those, either.

That’s correct. Because the very nature of a private revelation is that it’s not for everyone: not for the entire Body of Christ. For example, the messages at Fatima weren’t for everyone. They weren’t for people who lived before 1917. There might conceivably come a time when a particular private revelation is no longer of significance to the faithful.

But if the Church approves an apparition as private revelation, then she does so because she’s deemed there to be something beneficial to be had there, for a certain portion of the Body of Christ. And the Church doesn’t approve these apparitions on a whim. They are very throughly researched and gone over with a fine tooth comb.