Mary's Salvation

[DigiTori]

Hello, I’m not Catholic, but I’m trying to understand my Catholic friends and just Catholic doctrine in general. I do not mean for this thread to turn hostile or anything. I’m just inquisitive. =)

My question is why Catholics believe that Mary is above other believers. Why the holy conception seemed to cleanse all her sins.

 

[davidv]

Hello, I’m not Catholic, but I’m trying to understand my Catholic friends and just Catholic doctrine in general. I do not mean for this thread to turn hostile or anything. I’m just inquisitive. =)

My question is why Catholics believe that Mary is above other believers. Why the holy conception seemed to cleanse all her sins.

A few of my thoughts on the matter:

What do you mean by “Catholics believe that Mary is above other believers”? This can be taken in several ways and not all are true descriptions of what the Church teaches.

Mary is a human being, like each of us. If she is “above” us in any way, it is in her perfect obedience to the will of God. She is the first Christian and is the exemplar of how to life in Christ.

Which conception are you referring to with the term “holy conception”? Is it Mary’s conception or Jesus’? Mary’s conception is titled the “Immaculate Conception” because she was conceived without original sin. This was due to Jesus’ saving work being applied to her at her conception.

 

[DigiTori]

Oh, I’m sorry. I’m trying to repeat what I’ve heard from some other Catholics. I guess that she’s already in Heaven in a place where she can intercede for us.

I suppose this where I’m confused: Where does this belief come from? Why the Immaculate Conception? Why was “Jesus’ saving work… applied to her at her conception”?

 

[Trishie]

God put Mary above us by His choice of her to be mother of the Son.

God chose Mary as the source of Jesus’ DNA,
and her within whose womb His humanity would take shape and grow,
and Mary to nurture Him.

Can you imagine for an instant that this man who wept over the death of His friend even though He knew that in a short time He would raise him from the dead,
could you imagine such a man not deeply loving His Mother.
Are you and I less good, less Christian, that we would love our own mother more than any other mother?
She is incredibly dear to Jesus,
and of all the generations, of all the billions of women. God chose Mary,
and proclaimed her 'full of grace".

Jesus had His plan of when he’d begin with His miracles or signs, and it wasn’t at the wedding feast of Cana. stated as much, that it wan’t yet time, but His dear Mom had shown her pity for the hosts who would be embarrassed by running out of wine…not even a matter of life or death, just of 'losing face". [John 2:1-11]
But He couldn’t resist His dear Mom. He did the miracle anyway, just because in a gentle way she asked Him too.

So are we to insult our dear Lord Jesus by not seeing His Mother with something of His love and respect.

And she proved on that occasion to be a very good intercessor!
He wasn’t keen on doing the miracle but He did, just because His dear Mom asked!

If I loved this woman, valued her, would I not at the very least because Jesus whom I adore and for whom I’d give my life, loves her who nurtured Him for thirty years, and who gave Him that humanity that led to my/our salvation.

Even in His last agonized moments on the cross, this Jesus whom we adore, made provision for His mother’s future care, making her the responsibility of His most faithful apostle, John.

John 19:26-27
Jesus saw his own mother, and the disciple standing near whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold your son”. Then he said to the disciple, “Behold your mother”. And from that hour, he took his mother into his family.

 

[Trishie]

We don’t have to choose against love of God and others, but practically everyone does at some time. Mary didn’t. She lived always in love of God and neighbour and so remained always without sin.

 

[DigiTori]

God put Mary above us by His choice of her to be mother of the Son.

God chose Mary as the source of Jesus’ DNA,
and her within whose womb His humanity would take shape and grow,
and Mary to nurture Him.

Can you imagine for an instant that this man who wept over the death of His friend even though He knew that in a short time He would raise him from the dead,
could you imagine such a man not deeply loving His Mother.
Are you and I less good, less Christian, that we would love our own mother more than any other mother?
She is incredibly dear to Jesus,
and of all the generations, of all the billions of women. God chose Mary,
and proclaimed her 'full of grace".

Jesus had His plan of when he’d begin with His miracles or signs, and it wasn’t at the wedding feast of Cana. stated as much, that it wan’t yet time, but His dear Mom had shown her pity for the hosts who would be embarrassed by running out of wine…not even a matter of life or death, just of 'losing face". [John 2:1-11]
But He couldn’t resist His dear Mom. He did the miracle anyway, just because in a gentle way she asked Him too.

So are we to insult our dear Lord Jesus by not seeing His Mother with something of His love and respect.

And she proved on that occasion to be a very good intercessor!
He wasn’t keen on doing the miracle but He did, just because His dear Mom asked!

If I loved this woman, valued her, would I not at the very least because Jesus whom I adore and for whom I’d give my life, loves her who nurtured Him for thirty years, and who gave Him that humanity that led to my/our salvation.

Even in His last agonized moments on the cross, this Jesus whom we adore, made provision for His mother’s future care, making her the responsibility of His most faithful apostle, John.

John 19:26-27
Jesus saw his own mother, and the disciple standing near whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold your son”. Then he said to the disciple, “Behold your mother”. And from that hour, he took his mother into his family.

But that’s kind of all hypothetical. He was already dying on the cross for her. I don’t doubt that He loved her extremely.

 

[DigiTori]

We don’t have to choose against love of God and others, but practically everyone does at some time. Mary didn’t. She lived always in love of God and neighbour and so remained always without sin.

How do you know that?

 

[Guardian_Wolf]

Since in discussing Mary (as in the other thread) Jesus’s own self will come up, I’ve decided to post here what I found in “Catholicism for Dummies”. I believe it will also some of your previously asked questions ‘DigiTori’. ^^

Like all Christians, Catholics share the core belief that Jesus of Nazareth is Lord and Savior. The term *Lord *is used, because Christians believe Jesus is divine – the Son of God. The term *Savior *is used, because Christians believe that Jesus saved all humankind by dying for our sins.

…]

Catholics also believe that Jesus was hman as well as divine. So ‘true God’ and ‘became man’ are key phrases in teh Nicene Creed, whichhighlights the fundamental doctrine of Jesus as the God-Man:

• As God, Jesus posessed a fully divine nature, so he was able to preform mirables, such as teh changing water into wine curing sickness, disease and disability, and raising the dead. His greatest act of divinity was to rise from the dead himself.

• As man, Jesus had a human mother, Mary, who gave birth to him and nursed him. He lived and grew up like any other man. He taught, preached, suffered, and died. So Jesus had a fully human nature as well.

Jesus, the God-Man, having a fully divine natur and a fully human nature in one divine person, is the core and center of Catholic belief.

(going to paraphrase this secton)

Catholics do NOT see Jesus as a half-breed, but as both FULLY divine, and FULLY human. This is the cornerstone of all Christian mysteres. It cant be explained completely but must be beieved on faith.

Jesus had a physical body with all the usual parts: two eyes, two ears, two legs, a heart, a brain, a stomach, and so on. Because he had a physical body, he also had five senses. So he could experience physical pain and pleasure. He also possessed a human intellect (mind) and will (heart) and experienced human emotions such as joy and sorrow. The Gospel According to John, for example, says that Jesus cried at the death of his friend Lazarus.

Jesus wasn’t born with the ability to speak. He had to learn how to walk and talk – how to be, act, and think as a human being.

Jesus did *not *share sin with human beings. Being human doesn’t mean being capable of sinning. And it doesn’t mean that you’ve sinned somewhere along the line. Being human means having a free will and rational intellect joined to a physical body. Human s can choose to do good or choose to do evil.

Catholics believe that human beings done determind what’s good or evil, because that’s intrinsic to the tihngs itself. Whether something is good or evil is independent of personal opinion. Murder is evil in and of itself. Someone may personally think an action is good, but if its instrinsically evil, they’re only fooling themselves and will eventually regret it. Jesus in his humanity always chose to do good, but that didn’t make him any less human. Even thought he never got drunk, swore, told a dirty joke, or had a dirty thought, he was still human.

The Catholic Church graphically reminds her members of the human nature by Jesus by conscpicuously placing a crucifix in every church. …] The nails in his hands and feet, the crown of thorns on his head, and the wound in his side where a soldier thrust a lance into his hearta;; poignantly remind the faithful that Jesus’ suffering, known as his Passion, was real. The crucifix reminds Catholics that the gruesome death was real and so was the pain and suffering associated with it.

…]

Its important to keep in mind that Catholicism doesn’t depend exclusively on the Bible for what’s known about Jesus. Sacred Tradition fills in some gaps when the Bible is silent or ambiguous on certain points, such as whether Jesus ever married or had siblings.

 

[Guardian_Wolf]

Sorry for all the typos everyone, my keyboard hasn’t been working quite right as of late (i.e. I’ll press a key, and nothng happens. Half the time I can even get copy and paste to work is to do it with my mouse. Nothing happens when I use the keyboard.)

 

[theotikos]

I invite you to read one of these two books. And you will be so much wiser than your Catholic counterparts God bless.

amazon.com/Life-Blessed-Virgin-Mary-Catherine/dp/0895550482/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264649305&sr=1-8

amazon.com/Mystical-City-God-Popular-Abridgement/dp/0895550709/ref=pd_sim_b_5

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you

 

[Mark77]

But that’s kind of all hypothetical. He was already dying on the cross for her. I don’t doubt that He loved her extremely.

Jesus said; “Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.” (Jn 19:27)

**THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO HYPOTHETICAL HERE!
**
For a Jewish man to say “Behold your mother” is not something that was normal. Jesus was clearly saying to each one of us that Mary is our mother!!!

As to your question, Mary is clearly the most perfect example of humanity that God ever created.

Who else said “Yes” to God so perfectly? Who else carried Jesus in their womb for 9 months? Who else gave birth, nurtured, breastfed, changed the dirty diapers, taught to walk, spanked, kissed, laughed, comforted & spent every day of the first 30 years with
Emmanuel? Who else was there for His first miracle, His 3 years of ministry, His Crucifixion, Death & Resurrection & the early days of His Church…?

Could you hold God in your arms & say, i love you!?

i suspect Jesus would be not very happy with people who do not give our Most Blessed Mother Mary the respect she has earned!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[JJ59]

Oh, I’m sorry. I’m trying to repeat what I’ve heard from some other Catholics. I guess that she’s already in Heaven in a place where she can intercede for us.

I suppose this where I’m confused: Where does this belief come from? Why the Immaculate Conception? Why was “Jesus’ saving work… applied to her at her conception”?

Thanks for inquiring into the faith, DigitTori.

The basic gist of it is this: Catholics believe that Mary was Immaculately Conceived because her job was to carry God Himself in her womb. You can’t have an ordinary sinful woman bearing the Lord of Heaven and Earth!!

There is a strong tie-in to the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark held the Ten Commandments, God’s Word, just like Mary, who held Jesus (God’s Word, -John 1:1-). The Ark is the Ark of the Old Covenent, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant.

Consider this: In Exodus 25, God gave some insanely detailled orders on how to build the Ark of the Covenant. It was covered with pure gold. If God wanted such a pure and precise Ark in the Old Covenant, would he not do the same for the Ark of the New Covenant?

The Evangalist Luke directly connects Mary to the Ark of the Covenant. Compare 2 Samuel 6 and Luke 1 (When Mary visits Elizabeth.). There are several parallels that indicate that Luke is connecting Mary with the Ark: King David Leaps before the Ark, John the Baptist leaps before Mary. (2 Samuel 6:16, Luke 1:41) The Ark stays in a house for 3 months, and so does Mary. (2 Samuel 6:11, Luke 1:56) One of the most striking parallels is, “How can the Ark/Mother of my Lord come to me?” (2 Samuel 6:9, Luke 1:43)

I hope this answers your question. May God bless you

 

[DigiTori]

Thanks to everyone who answered my question. I do believe I understand now.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hello, I’m not Catholic, but I’m trying to understand my Catholic friends and just Catholic doctrine in general. I do not mean for this thread to turn hostile or anything. I’m just inquisitive. =)

My question is why Catholics believe that Mary is above other believers. Why the holy conception seemed to cleanse all her sins.

From the moment of her conception, Eve was espoused to Adam and conceived immaculately.

From the moment of her conception, The Church was espoused to Christ and conceived immaculately.

I believe that Mary’s child-bearing relationship with God is sacred, even spousal.

So, from the moment of her conception, Mary was espoused to the Holy Spirit and conceived immaculately.

Just my thoughts. I don’t know if the Pope will agree with me. :twocents: