Masons

[Holly3278]

My maternal Grandpa was a Freemason for as long as I knew him. He was a good guy. Still, I condemn Freemasonry along with the Church. I still remember at his funeral he had the Freemason apron on. I hated that. The Freemason lodge was going to do some kind of ritual during the showing and I refused to be there during that without letting the reason why known. I simply left the showing before it started and nobody asked me why.

 

[lerapt78]

The movie is out right NOW and all Catholics should see it.

Was there anything in particular that you think was an eye-opener about the movie? I only saw it once, when it first came out, and I was pretty young at the time so maybe I missed out on any subtle nuancies. I just remember feeling uncomfortable in the movie theater because I felt that I was watching a soft-core pornographic flick with no obvious lesson to be learned.

 

[RileyG]

Was there anything in particular that you think was an eye-opener about the movie? I only saw it once, when it first came out, and I was pretty young at the time so maybe I missed out on any subtle nuancies. I just remember feeling uncomfortable in the movie theater because I felt that I was watching a soft-core pornographic flick with no obvious lesson to be learned.

I know there’s a book. The movie basically focuses on the wife almost wanting to cheat on her husband, so the husband goes to extreme measures to find out why. That’s my interpretation anyway.

Back to the topic, I know very little about the masons. I know there is a mason lodge where I live somewhere (in a small town around 1300 people). My dad told me they’re mainly Presbyterian or Methodist (or any other mainstream Protestant) and aren’t considered an occult anymore. (He’s not one, he’s Catholic).

I do KNOW that they’re rituals are pagan, and have a history of being very anti-catholic. There are conspiracy theories of the masons being involved with the illuminati, kennedy assassination, area 51/ “aliens” etc. I don’t know what to think of those, though.

 

[lerapt78]

Back to the topic, I know very little about the masons. I know there is a mason lodge where I live somewhere (in a small town around 1300 people). My dad told me they’re mainly Presbyterian or Methodist (or any other mainstream Protestant) and aren’t considered an occult anymore. (He’s not one, he’s Catholic).

I would hazard a guess that the majority of Masons do not dabble much in the occult, or if they do perform occultist rituals, they may not have really examined the significance of them. In other words, to them it is simply a fraternity.

I do KNOW that they’re rituals are pagan, and have a history of being very anti-catholic. There are conspiracy theories of the masons being involved with the illuminati, kennedy assassination, area 51/ “aliens” etc. I don’t know what to think of those, though.

To the best of my knowledge, the Illuminati are just one group of Masons, a sort of “elite” branch if you will, whose members wield more power and influence than those in other groups. They were accused of having political influence during the French and American Revolutions. Some of the conspiracy theories surrounding them seem far-fetched to me, especially those regarding aliens, however it is very plausible to see a hidden hand within the structure of politics.

If you recall, George W. Bush (and I believe his father as well), is a member of the Skull & Bones Society. I wouldn’t doubt that he was groomed and guaranteed a position of power within the American government.

 

[Elizium23]

Was there anything in particular that you think was an eye-opener about the movie? I only saw it once, when it first came out, and I was pretty young at the time so maybe I missed out on any subtle nuancies. I just remember feeling uncomfortable in the movie theater because I felt that I was watching a soft-core pornographic flick with no obvious lesson to be learned.

Uh, no, the movie that is out right now and that you should see is called For Greater Glory. Eyes Wide Shut is not the kind of trash that Catholics must see at all.

As for the Masonic involvement in the Cristero War, it is very much a fact of history and shows just how far they will go to destroy the Church and her Priesthood.

In 1924, Plutarco Elias Calles became President. For this descendant of Spanish Jews, a 33rd degree Mason, “the Church is the unique cause of all Mexico’s misfortunes.” For him, too, she had to disappear.

On May 28, 1926, Calles received the Masonic medal of merit from the hands of the Great Commander of the Scottish rite in Mexico. On July 12, the following communique appeared in the press: “International Masonry accepts responsibility for everything that is happening in Mexico, and is preparing to mobilize all its forces for the methodic, integral application of the agreed upon program for this country.”

catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/cristero.htm

(I’ve never seen this site before but it seems to have faithful teachings on it; I have no reason to doubt their position on the Cristero War.)

 

[lerapt78]

Uh, no, the movie that is out right now and that you should see is called For Greater Glory. Eyes Wide Shut is not the kind of trash that Catholics must see at all.

Got it.

As for the Masonic involvement in the Cristero War, it is very much a fact of history and shows just how far they will go to destroy the Church and her Priesthood.

catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/cristero.htm

(I’ve never seen this site before but it seems to have faithful teachings on it; I have no reason to doubt their position on the Cristero War.)

I have to admit, I’ve never even heard of the Cristero Wars, although after doing a quick internet search, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

 

[drfye]

Also, the rituals used by the Masons are from Paganism, and also taken from documents which King Phillip II obtained from Knights Templar, who were tortured in order to obtain false confessions from them being involved in the occult. King Phillip wanted the Pope to do away with the Knights Templar, and the way to do it was to show the Pope the confessions of the Knights, that the were involved with the occult.

Years later, those false confessions were found in Rosslyn Chapel in Scottland, and were believed to be the secret rituals of the Knights Templar. Hence, the rituals made their way into the Free Masons.

The “Tree” ceremony which is used at funeral services of deceased Mason members is an example.

Anyway, this is how I understand it…

Jim

I still don’t understand the supposed historical connection between the knights templar and the free masons. As far as I am aware, if my history is correct, the knights templar was a devout loyal catholic military organizations that was forced to disband in 1307 with many of its members being charged with something like witchcraft or desecration of religious objects and being forced to confess but I believe those charges were dropped and its members were absolved. I believe many of the templars who survived King philips purge later joined the knights hospitaller( or other orders), retired, or went into hiding. If I am not mistaken the free masons only appeared 300 or 400 years later and may have come out of scotland, I am still wondering what the connection is between the templars and the masons, as I have heard people say the masons came from the templars?

 

[lerapt78]

Yes, the connection between the Templars and the Masons is a bit fuzzy to me too, but acknowledgedly I haven’t gone into deep study on this.

Perhaps, like so many other organizations, the connection between the two is a result of the “bad apples” within the Templars? Such as, some Templars “went rogue” and either created the Masons or joined them?

 

[gh4]

This is all quite interesting. I sure do wish my Dad were still alive so I could ask him about it. I had his bible with the masonic emblem on it for a while, but gave it to my son before I moved out here. The bible was like any other King James bible, no difference. Seems kind of hard to believe if they were pagan that they’d have a bible with their emblem on it. It’s all very interesting though.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I still don’t understand the supposed historical connection between the knights templar and the free masons. As far as I am aware, if my history is correct, the knights templar was a devout loyal catholic military organizations that was forced to disband in 1307 with many of its members being charged with something like witchcraft or desecration of religious objects and being forced to confess but I believe those charges were dropped and its members were absolved. I believe many of the templars who survived King philips purge later joined the knights hospitaller( or other orders), retired, or went into hiding. If I am not mistaken the free masons only appeared 300 or 400 years later and may have come out of scotland, I am still wondering what the connection is between the templars and the masons, as I have heard people say the masons came from the templars?

You are correct that the Knights Templar were forced to disband, but this was the result of King Phillip IV,(I had originally posted II, it was IV) who hated the Knights, had them arrested, and under torture, they were forced to sign documents that they were involved in the occult and they detailed the rituals. These documents were presented to Pope Clement V, who order them to disband.

Some of these false documents ended up hidden in Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland. Sir Hilary, found them and thought they were the secret rites used by the Templars, and they became part of the Mason’s rituals.

Jim

 

[drfye]

You are correct that the Knights Templar were forced to disband, but this was the result of King Phillip IV,(I had originally posted II, it was IV) who hated the Knights, had them arrested, and under torture, they were forced to sign documents that they were involved in the occult and they detailed the rituals. These documents were presented to Pope Clement V, who order them to disband.

Some of these false documents ended up hidden in Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland. Sir Hilary, found them and thought they were the secret rites used by the Templars, and they became part of the Mason’s rituals.

Jim

learning.rosslynchapel.com/

certainly is interesting but I think it still leaves many questions open as to the origins of the free masons, according to the Rosslyn chapel websit, the chapel was built between 1446 and 1484 which would still leave a gap of about 150 years for the the documents to end up in scotland and then in that chapel .

Apparently ( this is from the masons website), the oldest known mason document is the Regius Poem (Halliwell manuscript) which is suppose to be dated to about 1390 and starts to lay out the origins of their rituals and practices, i have not read the whole webpage but I still have to wonder where the connection is between these two organizations, it’s history jut seems very vague to me.

freemasons-freemasonry.com/regius.html

 

[drfye]

Yes, the connection between the Templars and the Masons is a bit fuzzy to me too, but acknowledgedly I haven’t gone into deep study on this.

Perhaps, like so many other organizations, the connection between the two is a result of the “bad apples” within the Templars? Such as, some Templars “went rogue” and either created the Masons or joined them?

hahaha, I also am certainly not an expert on the subject and have not gone very deep into the history of of it all, and I suppose it is possible that some of the former templars went rogue, but so far from the little that I looked up, it just seems unverifyed to me which leaves me wondering if the masons really did come from the templars or if thats just a claim, Especially in recent years with all this renewed interest in the knights templar (I assume because of the Davinci code and similar works)

 

[rje1957]

I had it explained to me recently that the Masonic organizations here in the States are more charity minded and not as into undermining the Catholic church as compared to those in Europe and some other areas. Of course, most members are Protestants - so there is the age old battle of them claiming we are not Christians, etc.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

learning.rosslynchapel.com/

certainly is interesting but I think it still leaves many questions open as to the origins of the free masons, according to the Rosslyn chapel websit, the chapel was built between 1446 and 1484 which would still leave a gap of about 150 years for the the documents to end up in scotland and then in that chapel .

Apparently ( this is from the masons website), the oldest known mason document is the Regius Poem (Halliwell manuscript) which is suppose to be dated to about 1390 and starts to lay out the origins of their rituals and practices, i have not read the whole webpage but I still have to wonder where the connection is between these two organizations, it’s history jut seems very vague to me.

freemasons-freemasonry.com/regius.html

OK, I can’t find the source of my information. The book I thought it was from, “Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church,” by H. W. Crocker III, no mention of Rosslyn Chapel, but the author gives the account of torture the Knights Templar went through under King Philip IV.

I’ll keep looking, it may be that the Templar confessions were found at the site of Rosslyn Chapel, during the excavation for it’s construction.

I’ll try to find the source.

Either way, the false Templar confessions are the connection the Masons make with the Knights Templar and how they use some of the occult rites detailed in the documents.

Jim

 

[BluesPicker]

In the last 200 years certain groups of Masons actaully have been at war against the Catholic Church. In Mexico during the 1920s and so forth.

  The untimely death of  Pope John Paul I  and his memory are clouded and shrouded in mystery.  A lodge of Masons who were bankers and investors were involved.

  Please read  Pope Leo XIII's letters about the threat Masonry poses for the Catholic Church.  There are certain groups of Masons that have nothing to do with these.  They are occultists and have positions or titles greater than  33 degrees.

   Most Masons I know personally are extremely good people with good intentions. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.  

  I think it far better to join the Knights of Columbus and just let the Masons be. I trust the Church.  Even though there seems to be a more relaxed attitude toward Masons, there exists a potential danger by the way they are organized.

BP

 

[rje1957]

The History channel has had a number of programs on masons and also seems to provide a fair explanation of their origins. The history and affiliations of the masons has been checkered throughout history - especially here in the States during the 20th century. But membership seems to be fading in contrast to the KC which grows in strength.

I have also heard it said (I’m a 26 yr KC member) that the KC initiation is very similar to the master masons degrees - has anyone else heard this ???

 

[drfye]

OK, I can’t find the source of my information. The book I thought it was from, “Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church,” by H. W. Crocker III, no mention of Rosslyn Chapel, but the author gives the account of torture the Knights Templar went through under King Philip IV.

I’ll keep looking, it may be that the Templar confessions were found at the site of Rosslyn Chapel, during the excavation for it’s construction.

I’ll try to find the source.

Either way, the false Templar confessions are the connection the Masons make with the Knights Templar and how they use some of the occult rites detailed in the documents.

Jim

lewrockwell.com/mcmaken/mcmaken58.html
credo.stormloader.com/Reviews/poweglor.htm
amazon.com/Triumph-Catholic-Church-000-Year-History/dp/0761529241

It certainly appears to be an interesting read and if the origins of the masons are from the confessions obtained through the torture of templars, I think it would help people to better understand the history of the templars, which could lead to a better understanding of the history of the crusades and time period as a whole…I don’t know, maybe its just me but it always seems like the crusades are painted as a one sided act of aggression or as some form of european Colonialism trying to install theocratic rule, it’s like people forget what led up to the crusades or the formation of catholic military orders like the templars to begin with…anyway, it certainly would be interesting to find out more about the origins of this mason organization especially since the church prohibits membership.

 

[drfye]

The History channel has had a number of programs on masons and also seems to provide a fair explanation of their origins. The history and affiliations of the masons has been checkered throughout history - especially here in the States during the 20th century. But membership seems to be fading in contrast to the KC which grows in strength.

I have also heard it said (I’m a 26 yr KC member) that the KC initiation is very similar to the master masons degrees - has anyone else heard this ???

I’m becoming somewhat weary of the history channel, I’m not sure if that concern is founded but lately their programs seem to be less focused on history. I do like some of their shows but as I said I am becoming weary.

 

[rje1957]

I’m becoming somewhat weary of the history channel, I’m not sure if that concern is founded but lately their programs seem to be less focused on history. I do like some of their shows but as I said I am becoming weary.

Just one of those things where we have to be discerning in the show sand what they contain. Agree a lot of their shows are lacking, but the older recycled ones still are interesting.

Peace

 

[TEPO]

Freemasonry is often given more credit than what it deserves. They often brag about George Washington as being a mason, as well as other influential people, as if that’s supposed to mean something…

Aside from a few small charities, freemasonry is a worthless waste of people’s time.