Mass Absence

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OurLadyPerpHelp

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Here’s a report I read last night and would love to get your perspectives on it. In 2008, Georgetown University did a survey on the state of the Catholic Church in America. Here are a couple findings: 80% of Catholics surveys don’t make their Sunday obligation and of those 60% don’t believe in the Real Presence. I haven’t made any solid conclusions yet, but could it be that if someone doesn’t think Jesus is acutally in a consecrated host then what’s the point of going to Mass? A large percentage also don’t believe missing Sunday Mass is a sin. I wonder where they got that idea? What are your thoughts?

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html
 
Barbkw said:
Georgetown University itself, didn’t meet the requirements to be listed as an authentic Catholic college in the Newman Guide.

thenewmanguide.com/TableofContents/tabid/506/Default.aspx

From Georgetown’s website: “Established in 1789, Georgetown is the nation’s oldest Catholic and Jesuit university.”
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Well I’m afraid not many so called Catholic institutions are good representatives of the faith. Notre Dame honored the most pro-abortion politician in U.S. history with a law degree if you remember.

Are you contending Georgetown’s listing invalidates their survey?
 
OurLadyPerpHelp said:
Here’s a report I read last night and would love to get your perspectives on it. In 2008, Georgetown University did a survey on the state of the Catholic Church in America. Here are a couple findings: 80% of Catholics surveys don’t make their Sunday obligation and of those 60% don’t believe in the Real Presence. I haven’t made any solid conclusions yet, but could it be that if someone doesn’t think Jesus is acutally in a consecrated host then what’s the point of going to Mass? A large percentage also don’t believe missing Sunday Mass is a sin. I wonder where they got that idea? What are your thoughts?

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html
Click to expand...
Those who don’t attend Mass must be the ones who don’t believe in the Real Presence. Why else would they miss? BTW, Jesus isn’t IN the host. That would mean the substance of bread remains, and Jesus is somehow in it. Maybe that’s what Lutherans’ consubstantiation is; I don’t know. The bread actually changes to the body and blood of Jesus in transubstantiation. How could one actually believe that he is receiving the body and blood of Jesus at Communion and not go to Mass? That’s like throwing away the chance to gain all the wealth of the universe because you just don’t feel like making the effort to go. Very foolish.
 
OurLadyPerpHelp said:
Here’s a report I read last night and would love to get your perspectives on it. In 2008, Georgetown University did a survey on the state of the Catholic Church in America. Here are a couple findings: 80% of Catholics surveys don’t make their Sunday obligation and of those 60% don’t believe in the Real Presence. I haven’t made any solid conclusions yet, but could it be that if someone doesn’t think Jesus is acutally in a consecrated host then what’s the point of going to Mass? A large percentage also don’t believe missing Sunday Mass is a sin. I wonder where they got that idea? What are your thoughts?

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html
Click to expand...
The recent Chicago survey showed 26 percent weekly Mass attendance.

The main reason to go to Mass is feeling God presence and prayer/reflexion

People believe what they are catechized for. The sin is missing from the catechesis of the usual modern church.

I keep meditating on the Gospels In the first (10-34 months) of His public life Jesus wanted to attract the people with miracles, interesting sermons, etc. At the last two months (from the Transfiguration to the Golgotha) he concentrated only on his apostles. We shall follow him, and cannot say that the first part was futile.
 
Waiting said:
Those who don’t attend Mass must be the ones who don’t believe in the Real Presence. Why else would they miss? BTW, Jesus isn’t IN the host. That would mean the substance of bread remains, and Jesus is somehow in it. Maybe that’s what Lutherans’ consubstantiation is; I don’t know. The bread actually changes to the body and blood of Jesus in transubstantiation. How could one actually believe that he is receiving the body and blood of Jesus at Communion and not go to Mass? That’s like throwing away the chance to gain all the wealth of the universe because you just don’t feel like making the effort to go. Very foolish.
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Thank you for your correction and I agree with your point. I haven’t learned the all the proper lingo that I should know at this point in my life. I have always believed I receive Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. How exactly to describe that (substantially, etc) is on my to-do list, but not near the top.
 
OurLadyPerpHelp said:
Here’s a report I read last night and would love to get your perspectives on it. In 2008, Georgetown University did a survey on the state of the Catholic Church in America. Here are a couple findings: 80% of Catholics surveys don’t make their Sunday obligation and of those 60% don’t believe in the Real Presence. I haven’t made any solid conclusions yet, but could it be that if someone doesn’t think Jesus is acutally in a consecrated host then what’s the point of going to Mass? A large percentage also don’t believe missing Sunday Mass is a sin. I wonder where they got that idea? What are your thoughts?

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html
Click to expand...
There are problems with surveys.

Who was surveyed? Is someone who does not go to Mass every Sunday really a Catholic? Many people self-identify as Catholic yet in reality they are not Catholics. So if this survey included them it is garbage as it is listing them as Catholics which they really are not. At best they are dissenting Catholics as they are dissenting from the actual Teachings of the Catholic Church.

Next, what were the questions asked and how were they asked.

Surveys can be manipulated when they are created to get a desired outcome. Especially when you are picking who you are going to give the survey to.

If you can not tell, I am not a fan of surveys or political polls.
 
ByzCath said:
There are problems with surveys.

Who was surveyed? Is someone who does not go to Mass every Sunday really a Catholic? Many people self-identify as Catholic yet in reality they are not Catholics. So if this survey included them it is garbage as it is listing them as Catholics which they really are not. At best they are dissenting Catholics as they are dissenting from the actual Teachings of the Catholic Church.

Next, what were the questions asked and how were they asked.

Surveys can be manipulated when they are created to get a desired outcome. Especially when you are picking who you are going to give the survey to.

If you can not tell, I am not a fan of surveys or political polls.
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Have you taken the time to read the report?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you are baptized in the Catholic Church you are a Catholic. I don’t believe you can be excommunicated for any period of absence from Mass.
 
OurLadyPerpHelp said:
Have you taken the time to read the report?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you are baptized in the Catholic Church you are a Catholic. I don’t believe you can be excommunicated for any period of absence from Mass.
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True, if you are baptized in the Catholic Church then you are a Catholic, technically.

Are we going to allow non-practicing Catholics to define what Catholicism is which is what these types of surveys try to do.

A non-practicing Catholic or a dissenting Catholic, should not be used to represent what the Catholic Church is.

No need to read the report, I have seen it all before.
 
OurLadyPerpHelp said:
Have you taken the time to read the report?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you are baptized in the Catholic Church you are a Catholic. I don’t believe you can be excommunicated for any period of absence from Mass.
Click to expand...
True, if you are baptized in the Catholic Church then you are a Catholic, technically.

Are we going to allow non-practicing Catholics to define what Catholicism is which is what these types of surveys try to do.

A non-practicing Catholic or a dissenting Catholic, should not be used to represent what the Catholic Church is.

No need to read the report, I have seen it all before.
 
Barbkw said:
Georgetown University itself, didn’t meet the requirements to be listed as an authentic Catholic college in the Newman Guide.

thenewmanguide.com/TableofContents/tabid/506/Default.aspx

From Georgetown’s website: “Established in 1789, Georgetown is the nation’s oldest Catholic and Jesuit university.”
Click to expand...
Not being listed is not, by itself, indicative of not meeting the requirements. It could mean that they did not fill out the Newman Society’s questionaire.
 
ByzCath said:
Who was surveyed?
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This link contains the methodology used:

nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2009/09/nuances-of-accurately-measuring-mass.html

Self-identified Catholics were surveyed. A person who** self-identifies **as Catholic can be anything from an actual, baptized, Mass attending Catholic to someone who has an Irish grandmother.

So, I don’t believe these people were qualified by the survey process in any way to have some sort of benchmark for what a “Catholic” is.
 
1ke said:
This link contains the methodology used:

nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com/2009/09/nuances-of-accurately-measuring-mass.html

Self-identified Catholics were surveyed. A person who** self-identifies **as Catholic can be anything from an actual, baptized, Mass attending Catholic to someone who has an Irish grandmother.

So, I don’t believe these people were qualified by the survey process in any way to have some sort of benchmark for what a “Catholic” is.
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Thank but I had assumed that they used that criteria of “self-identifying” for how they determined if the person being surveyed was a Catholic or not. So they did not really, in my opinion, survey actual practicing Catholics, but anyone who said that they were Catholic.

I have to wonder if they even have an error percentage for those who lie in the survey. That is those who self-identify as Catholic who actually are not even baptized Catholic.
 
OurLadyPerpHelp said:
Here’s a report I read last night and would love to get your perspectives on it. In 2008, Georgetown University did a survey on the state of the Catholic Church in America. Here are a couple findings: 80% of Catholics surveys don’t make their Sunday obligation and of those 60% don’t believe in the Real Presence. I haven’t made any solid conclusions yet, but could it be that if someone doesn’t think Jesus is acutally in a consecrated host then what’s the point of going to Mass? A large percentage also don’t believe missing Sunday Mass is a sin. I wonder where they got that idea? What are your thoughts?

cara.georgetown.edu/CARAServices/requestedchurchstats.html
Click to expand...
I got told one phrase in my statistics class that is absolutely true:-
There are three types of a lie, lies, damn lies and statistics.
You can make statistics say whatever you want them to say, they are open to researcher bias, quite badly so.
 
I dont need a survey to tell me there is a lack of attendance at Mass. I can see it with my own eyes 😦
 
Skeptic92 said:
I got told one phrase in my statistics class that is absolutely true:-
There are three types of a lie, lies, damn lies and statistics.
You can make statistics say whatever you want them to say, they are open to researcher bias, quite badly so.
Click to expand...
The phrase came from Mark Twain, he attributed it to Disraeli.

The truth is that irresponsible people can use the statistics to deceive uneducated people. If the full record is given (questionnaire, method of selection of the questioned group, individual set of answers including the question related to prove the proper distribution) than any statistic is useful and has truth.

The Cara reports are reliable and educating. It would be deceiving to consider catholic only those who attend weekly Masses. Catholic is who was baptized in Catholic Church and considers himself/herself Catholic. This is the only definition which allows to compare different states, countries, environments, age groups, whatever. If we would consider as Catholics who attend church every week, than there would be no difference related to age, gender, education, nationality whatever in the Church attendance: all is 100%
 
ByzCath said:
There are problems with surveys.

Who was surveyed? Is someone who does not go to Mass every Sunday really a Catholic? Many people self-identify as Catholic yet in reality they are not Catholics. So if this survey included them it is garbage as it is listing them as Catholics which they really are not. At best they are dissenting Catholics as they are dissenting from the actual Teachings of the Catholic Church.

Next, what were the questions asked and how were they asked.

Surveys can be manipulated when they are created to get a desired outcome. Especially when you are picking who you are going to give the survey to.

If you can not tell, I am not a fan of surveys or political polls.
Click to expand...
Exactly so. My OH is a University Professor of Statistics, and I cringe whenever there is some news item about surveys, as I know what growls and arguments are going to come from the other end of the sofa.

Just to give a small example of how the questions could have been slanted in this survey.

Question : ‘Do you believe that Jesus is physically present in the Host after the words of consecration?’
I would answer no to that, as the church teaches that He is ‘sacramentally’ present, not ‘physically’. (despite what some posters in these fora seem to believe).

So I could be put down as ‘not believing in the Real Presence’. But I do. It’s the question that is wrong - or rather, careless use of words.
 
While we’re on the subject, are there practical things I can do to get “peers” who I know don’t think Mass attendance is a “big deal” to come to Mass? 😦
 
ByzCath said:
True, if you are baptized in the Catholic Church then you are a Catholic, technically.

Are we going to allow non-practicing Catholics to define what Catholicism is which is what these types of surveys try to do.

A non-practicing Catholic or a dissenting Catholic, should not be used to represent what the Catholic Church is.

No need to read the report, I have seen it all before.
Click to expand...
Ok, just for the record, you passed judgement on this survey without reading it. Do you then expect me to respect your opinions when you haven’t shown any to me or the work that was done by a major university?
 
My, my. The knives are out in earnest. For all those who poo poo this survey please give your numbers on Mass attendance. How many baptized Catholics fulfill their Sunday obligation in your parish?
 
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