Mass and Chant... the way it should be?

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No

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pnewton:
Nope.

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What other music should be allowed?
 
What other music should be allowed.
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kwitz:
No

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Hey Ethan that was an awesome post; I’m glad I got you addicted to this forum:-) Hmmmm so should chant be the only type of music?? I think that is chants were the only music many people might not attend Holy Mass. Chant probably does not appeal to everyone and therefore people may find a reason (even though its insignificant) to leave the Church for a Protestant church. Providing a variety of music may be that tool to bring people to a deeper understanding and intimacy with God. I personally do like the chant because it reminds me of how the Church used to sing the Mass. There is something definitely reverent and mystical about it that I find very attractive.
 
I’m a heathen who happens to like much of the modern stuff - while still enjoying the occasional traditional song. I like guitars and drums and all of that occasionally also. I don’t think any one style or type of music should be played always. Gregorian chants were once new and modern too.

Kris
 
“Church should NOT change because of what someone “wants””
Providing a variety of music is a good thing, but there should only be certain things that you listen to at mass. Like you wouldn’t listen to rock when you where at mass because it affects you passions. Why do you think there are liturgical dancers. What do you want to do when you hear music with a nice beat? Thats right you want to dance, not kneel and pray. Hey I tried. 😃 :clapping:
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trayC123:
Hey Ethan that was an awesome post; I’m glad I got you addicted to this forum:-) Hmmmm so should chant be the only type of music?? I think that is chants were the only music many people might not attend Holy Mass. Chant probably does not appeal to everyone and therefore people may find a reason (even though its insignificant) to leave the Church for a Protestant church. Providing a variety of music may be that tool to bring people to a deeper understanding and intimacy with God. I personally do like the chant because it reminds me of how the Church used to sing the Mass. There is something definitely reverent and mystical about it that I find very attractive.
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Heathen is a sick word 👍
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kwitz:
I’m a heathen who happens to like much of the modern stuff - while still enjoying the occasional traditional song. I like guitars and drums and all of that occasionally also. I don’t think any one style or type of music should be played always. Gregorian chants were once new and modern too.

Kris
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Jacksquat89:
What other music should be allowed?
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It has never been a question of should with me. It is a question of what other music* is* allowed.

Hymns for one. The Holy See doesn’t direct a lot of restriction in this area, relying more on local control. It only issues doctrinal teaching and guidelines.

Here is a good link

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html

"116. The Church acknowledges Gregorian chant as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.

But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.

(30. To promote active participation, the people should be encouraged to take part by means of acclamations, responses, psalmody, antiphons, and songs, as well as by actions, gestures, and bodily attitudes. And at the proper times all should observe a reverent silence.)"

Anything in these guidelines as determined by local bishops is fine with me.
 
Yeah I agree, some churches that play REALLY loud music with “catchy” beats…its pretty easy to forget where you are and start “moving” around. This is NOT the point of Mass…And liturgical dancers…which I definitely did not like at my high school are distracting from the Mass, Jesus is here…why are there people moving about on the alter. Yeah, no. Rock music no good. Slower, reflective music is good…tap into your emotions anyways and its not like you are going to be moving around to drums here! So the variety of music might include meaningful words with simple melodies that are easy to sing. I have played the piano/organ for my home parish for 5-6 years. I started to play the organ more when many people appreciated the traditional hymns that i played during Communion (i.e.Panis Angelicus, Ave Maria, etc)…I think there is a yearning in every person for this authenticy, the simple yet profound beauty of the hymns that the Church has known for centuries. If the music becomes too liberal, so too does the meaning of the Mass. The Mass is NOT for entertainment…we are there to worship, adore and receive God. Its almost like “too bad” if people get bored, thats their problem. It’s a tough call though, the ultimate goal is the greater glory of God and salvation of souls…how is the best way to go about this? Does music really play that deciding factor of whether people will attend Mass or not? I surely hope not, for if this is the case, people are missing the point. Yes I’d agree that music “adds” to the beauty of the Mass but BIG sound is not necessary. God comes to us in the silence, right? Lets reflect on that one…(I tried too:-)
 
From Vatican II
  1. The Church acknowledges **Gregorian chant ** as specially suited to the Roman liturgy: therefore, other things being equal, it should be given pride of place in liturgical services.
    But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30.
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trayC123:
Hey Ethan that was an awesome post; I’m glad I got you addicted to this forum:-) Hmmmm so should chant be the only type of music?? I think that is chants were the only music many people might not attend Holy Mass. Chant probably does not appeal to everyone and therefore people may find a reason (even though its insignificant) to leave the Church for a Protestant church. Providing a variety of music may be that tool to bring people to a deeper understanding and intimacy with God. I personally do like the chant because it reminds me of how the Church used to sing the Mass. There is something definitely reverent and mystical about it that I find very attractive.
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This looks at the problem backwards. The Church has failed to catechize the faithful well enough to keep them coming to the Mass (attendance should be a no-brainer: the Eucharist is the source and summit of Christian life, Catholics are bound to fulfill their Sunday obligation). In order to fix this, you suggest that the Church merely provide a superficial reason for people to come: they like the music. If the Church ignores the real problem by just fiddling with the music, things will get better, not worse.

pnewton,
I realize that your citation was meant to highlight the fact that other forms of music are allowed. But it also underscores the point being made by opponents of modern music (meaning not chant or polyphony): the document specifically says that Gregorian chant is to be given pride of place. The “other things being equal” has been hijacked to interpret the actual norm out of existence. Also, sacred polyphony is not given the special treatment implied by the text. So while I understand your point that other forms are currently legitimate, I want to emphasize that their current use does not seem to abide by the norms.
 
I’m too tired to ramble on and on about this topic tonight… But suffice it to say that the Church has made herself quite clear, and despite the protestations of contemporary liturgists and liberal music directors, the Second Vatican Council did not abrogate any of the instructions given by Pre-Vatican II pontiffs. Here are a few Apostolic Exhortations and Encyclicals on Sacred Music to consider…

From St. Pius X: adoremus.org/MotuProprio.html (he is, afterall, a saint, maybe he knew what he was talking about!)

From Pope Pius XI: adoremus.org/DiviniCultus.html

From Pope Pius XII: adoremus.org/MusicaeSacrae1955.html

From the Second Vatican Council and thereabouts: adoremus.org/SacrosanctumConcilium.html

adoremus.org/MusicamSacram.html

From Pope John Paul II: adoremus.org/Chirograph-SacredMusic.html

Just some stuff to chew on for now. Maybe you could print out copies for your priests and music directors to read. Nobody at my parish had ever seen these before.
 
Andreas Hofer:
The “other things being equal” has been hijacked to interpret the actual norm out of existence.
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I quoted the whole document because we should be fair in all things.

Hijacked is a rather loaded term. The local bishop uses the guidelines as he determines they should be used in his parishes.
 
Jacksquat89 said:
:hmmm: Should chant be the only music allowed in mass?:whistle:
Code: 
                                                                                                      Jack
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Well, no, some Ren-music (Palestrina, Byrd, Tallis, etc.) would also be nice. If you’ve got a choir that can handle it; it’s not exactly the Southern Harmony version of “Amazing Grace.”

DaveBj
 
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