Mass at the beach.

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thunderballs75 said:
I’m sorry if I offended you. Please forgive me!

You say you went to this Mass? I know that you said people were expected to dress appropriately. Would you say the vast majority of them did? I’m sorry if I’m being rude. However, it just seems to me like every other person our age I’ve met doesn’t know anything other than this sort of stuff. Maybe I’m basing my opinion on too few people.

Again, I’m sorry if anything I said offended you. But if you do (for a lack of a better term) “know better” why would you go? You honestly think that the beach is a sacred place? It just seems like right on the beach, right next to that snack bar, is the wrong place to have the Body of God consecrated. And then of course there is the uncalled for hand-holding during the Our Father, only illuminated by the fact that people are sitting on beach towels and dancing (unless of course this was after Mass).

God bless you!

PS Do you live in San Bernardino?
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DURING Mass, I did not see anyone dressed immodestly… I think you have to remember that immodesty is when one tries to attract attention to themselves and acts/dresses out of the context of a situation… while wearing shorts and the such is certainly immodest during Mass at, say, a Church, I believe it was totally appropriate at the beach.

No, I do not believe that the beach is necessarily a sacred place. However, I believe Mass does not need to be held in a sacred place. I’ve been to retreats held at colleges and retreat centers where Mass was held in large conference rooms, etc. Those situations, like this one, were not sacriligious or unholy in any way. I understand what you mean when you say that the beach does not seem like an appropriate place to hold such an important and holy event. On the other hand, the beach is not an intrinsically unholy location. I just don’t believe that Jesus would frown on such a beautiful event. And yes, the dancing was after Mass.

Yes, I live in San Bernandino
 
Honestly bishop, you really think this is okay? I know you did not say that, but you come across as if you are defending it. Maybe I am wrong.

How do you think this is okay?!
**How do you think it’s ok to tell lies and spread rumors about things you don’t like?

THIS is what I’m saying is NOT OK.

I don’t know what happened at this Mass. I wasn’t there. But I DO see from your words that you are not being honest about what actually happened, and you are clearly defending your lack of probity by attacking me and accusing me of saying things I didn’t say.

I did go back and saw a few people sitting on beach towels. Big deal. Are you saying this is intrisically wrong or somehow not OK? Or that lawn chairs are some kind of liturgical abuse?

Did you actually see any females in bikinis attending this mass, or are you just claiming they did?

(Whether it is appropriate to hold Mass at a beach to start with is an entirely different question.)**
 
I think it’s slightly more perturbing that it’s hard to tell which denomination is at work there. Not too much in the way of symbols present. The priests vestments seem largely blank, for example.

What is the raison d’etre for outdoor Masses anyway? Persecution, certainly. Any others?
 
Layman said:
I think it’s slightly more perturbing that it’s hard to tell which denomination is at work there. Not too much in the way of symbols present. The priests vestments seem largely blank, for example.

What is the raison d’etre for outdoor Masses anyway? Persecution, certainly. Any others?
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**Can. 932 §1. The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out in a sacred place unless in a particular case necessity requires otherwise; in such a case the celebration must be done in a decent place.

§2. The eucharistic sacrifice must be carried out on a dedicated or blessed altar; outside a sacred place a suitable table can be used, always with a cloth and a corporal.**

The bishop has the authority to decide what “necessity” means; in this case, I would expect that expectation of a crowd greater than could be accomodated at the cathedral or largest church in the area, or difficulty in transporting people from one gathering venue to celebrate at a church that is large enough to accomodate all those anticipated to attend.

For instance, our archbiship offers Mass for Portland’s Cinco de Mayo Celebration. Arranging transportation for all the people from the celebration to the cathedral would not be practical, and having the celebration at a location walking distance from the cathedral would also not be practical. So they hold it down at the park on Portland’s waterfront.

There is nothing about a beach that is necessarily less “decent” than other outdoor venues. The suitability of the altar and how it is prepared is treated in canon law, but there is no specification for providing any kind of seating.
 
We will be having a cultural festival in my diocese soon. It is an expansion of a celebration that the hispanic Catholic community has been holding for several years. It is an outdoor day-long event with food, craft and cultural exhibits, games etc. I’m sure most people will be wearing shorts and t-shirts.

I just found out that the bishop will be celebrating Mass during this event. So we will be attending a Mass said by the bishop in a park and most likely the majority of the people there will have blankets or lawn chair to sit in during the readings and homily.

When the pictures of this event are posted to the diocese website, please don’t link to them and talk about the irreverance. This is one of the most conservative dioceses in the country. However, as EasterJoy said, it will not be practical for everyone who will attend this event to go to the closest parish (which is relatively small) and hold Mass in their church.

The bishop wants to celebrate our Catholic culture as well as our various national heritages, what better way to show that a group of folks are truly Catholic than to celebrate Mass?
 
thunderballs75 said:
All I was trying to say is that the holiest of holies is not meant for a day at the beach.
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Jesus destroyed that which separated the Holy of Holies on the day he died. In the past, only the high priest was allowed to enter. We need to remember that God commended his love to us while we were yet sinners. It was in our lowest it state that the true Holy of Holiest sacrifice was given. Once one has been to Calvary, everything else is a day at the beach.

Matthew 27:50-51
But Jesus cried out again in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit. And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom.
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Paul was the epitome of evangelism.
1 Corinthians 9:19-23
Although I am free in regard to all, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew to win over Jews; to those under the law I became like one under the law–though I myself am not under the law–to win over those under the law. To those outside the law I became like one outside the law–though I am not outside God’s law but within the law of Christ–to win over those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, to win over the weak. I have become all things to all, to save at least some. All this I do for the sake of the gospel, so that I too may have a share in it.
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I think it is very commendable the great love and respect that everyone here has for the Holy Sacrament. I am sure that it is the purest of motives that inspire such a desire to see Jesus receive the honor due Him. However, not everyone has reached such a state. I applaud efforts to go out into the highways and the hedges and bring the message of Jesus to a lost and dying world. He said Himself that if He be lifted up He will draw all men unto Him. What a great witness to our faith to have this happen in a public beach.
 
Layman said:
I think it’s slightly more perturbing that it’s hard to tell which denomination is at work there. Not too much in the way of symbols present. The priests vestments seem largely blank, for example.

What is the raison d’etre for outdoor Masses anyway? Persecution, certainly. Any others?
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There is no rule that vestments need to be decorated. The reason for an outdoor mass? Well maybe you should ask the organizers of World Youth Day, or those who organize the pope’s masses when he visits different countries.
 
Joannm said:
There is no rule that vestments need to be decorated. The reason for an outdoor mass? Well maybe you should ask the organizers of World Youth Day, or those who organize the pope’s masses when he visits different countries.
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The Popes outdoor masses gave rise to one of the all time great trivia questions. Which former cardinals have Plaques dedciated to them in the centerfield of yankee stadium?. The two everyone always miss are Pope John Paul II and Pope Paul VI
 
bpbasilphx said:
In these pictures given in the link, NOBODY was shown using beachtowels to sit on, nobody received communion with uncovered chest, and nobody was wearing a bikini.

Did you actually see all these pictures?

Doesn’t it bother you to spread rumors?

“Thou shalt not bear false witness” includes telling untruths about things you don’t like.
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Picture 17 shows a young man with a towel around his neck and he is clearly bear-chested.
Picture 15 shows people standing on their beach towels, which they were sitting on unless they decided to stand the whole mass.
 
One of my former churches did a beach-day and mass. For many of the town’s elderly this was the ONLY day they got to the beach all year beucase of transportation issues. (we have lakes)

It was brought up to the dioceses that we should all go to mass then go to the beach, but the distance and timing made it too hard on the older people…and the priest in particular, who had to rush more than anyone in order to finish Mass at two different parishes, get his stuff together and try to be at the park.

Plus, many vactioners would get excited and join us for Mass as it was announced at the park beforehand. There was even a family that would make an annual sail across the lake for it.

I’ve gone to a handful of outdoor masses. One was an impromtu mass becuase we were on a pilgrimage with a priest. During the pilgramage, one mass was over a giant tupperware tub, another out of the back of a pick-up truck. Another on a picnic table and it started to rain. The latter attracted the attention of the park ranger who, seeing it was Mass, (consencration), simply dropped to his knees then and there and prayed for the rest of Mass. I don’t know what was going on in his heart but I can say that he must of been moved a great deal.

We do not know what impact our actions have on others, and for this reason I don’t think the occasional (albeit annual or “planned”) mass outdoors will cause any harm. As long as the priest and a majorty of the people are respectful and revernt its good…infact…its better than most masses today.
 
On a side note, without wishing to get embroilled in the whole argument over this event, I was impressed by the woman in one of the photos wearing a mantilla. 👍
 
I was thinking of this beach Mass today in reference to what Jesus said when he was questioned about His disrespect for the Sabbath. “The Sabbath was made for Man, not Man for the Sabbath.”

I believe it is helpful to recall why we have the Blessed Sacrament in the first place. We are not created for the Holy Eucharist, the Holy Eucharist is offered for us. We only worship Jesus in this form after we have an understanding of this mystery.
 
I’ll assist at a Mass on the beach, or the park, or the like when they bomb all the church buildings. Not before. This is just so much foolishness.
 
If a priest can celebrate an anxious and fearful mass amid the carnage of a battlefield, there is nothing wrong with celebrating a joyful mass at the beach.
 
Tsuwano said:
If a priest can celebrate an anxious and fearful mass amid the carnage of a battlefield, there is nothing wrong with celebrating a joyful mass at the beach.
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As long as we’re all happy? I’m sorry but that line of thinking is just so much drivel.
 
Jacafamala said:
As long as we’re all happy? I’m sorry but that line of thinking is just so much drivel.
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How did you get that from carnage on the battlefield?

Do you think it is okay for someone to insult the way you think by calling it “drivel”?
 
Jacafamala said:
As long as we’re all happy? I’m sorry but that line of thinking is just so much drivel.
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That’s neither what I said or implied, but perhaps it’s worthy remembering that when we say the rosary we reflect upon the joyful mysteries as well as the sorrowful ones. There is room for a variety of emotions during the liturgy, even joy and happiness.
 
Tsuwano said:
That’s neither what I said or implied, but perhaps it’s worthy remembering that when we say the rosary we reflect upon the joyful mysteries as well as the sorrowful ones. There is room for a variety of emotions during the liturgy, even joy and happiness.
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Masses should be said at church whenever possible.
 
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