Mass Facing People

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Even though the rubrics of the Mass of Pope Paul VI never truly speak about the priest saying mass facing the people, it is allowed by the Church and used in most parishes today. However, prior to the mid-1960’s, Mass was said facing the East to signify the priest (who acts in person of Christ as mediator between God and the people) and the people facing the toward God together as he leads them in their prayers.

Is there any theological, pastoral, etc reason for practicing the method of facing the people as opposed to facing the East?
 
The only real “reason” I have seen cited by anyone who might have a learned opinion on the matter is when Cardinal Burke stated that facing the faithful at Mass can help them to see the reverence which the priest shows the Body and Blood of Christ. I can’t seem to find that quote, but I have seen it show up here on CAF before. Cardinal Burke is obviously a very traditionally minded Catholic, so for him to say something like that was interesting to me to say the least.

If the Vatican came out tomorrow and said that the Mass needed to be facing the East, I would not complain. Having said that, it is not the highest thing on my list of liturgical concerns. The music, use of the propers and/or antiphons, being able to kneel for Holy Communion, etc. would all be bigger issues for me. Others, however, may disagree.

The Holy Father frequently celebrates Mass facing the Faithful, so while I understand the theological significance of facing East, it can hardly be the liturgical nightmare that some on here and elsewhere would make it out to be. Pope Benedict is quite obviously very serious about the liturgy. If he is doing it, how bad can it honestly be?
 
Even though the rubrics of the Mass of Pope Paul VI never truly speak about the priest saying mass facing the people, it is allowed by the Church and used in most parishes today. However, prior to the mid-1960’s, Mass was said facing the East to signify the priest (who acts in person of Christ as mediator between God and the people) and the people facing the toward God together as he leads them in their prayers.

Is there any theological, pastoral, etc reason for practicing the method of facing the people as opposed to facing the East?
I’d like to know too. The Roman Church worshiped facing East for 1960 years just as the other Churches. Why start doing differently? It shows nothing but disrespect for an ancient form of worship that even the Holy Apostles practiced.
 
Even though the rubrics of the Mass of Pope Paul VI never truly speak about the priest saying mass facing the people, it is allowed by the Church and used in most parishes today. However, prior to the mid-1960’s, Mass was said facing the East to signify the priest (who acts in person of Christ as mediator between God and the people) and the people facing the toward God together as he leads them in their prayers.

Is there any theological, pastoral, etc reason for practicing the method of facing the people as opposed to facing the East?
There are certainly practical reasons. Churches today cannot always be built on available property so that the sanctuary/altar is located in a manner that will allow what you describe.
 
Truth is, both can be done well. Both can be done poorly, although I think it is much easier to royally destroy a Mass facing the people than it is to do so to a Mass celebrated facing the apse/in the same direction as the people.

Tradition is a good argument for having Mass facing the same direction as the people. It cannot be denied that for the vast majority of the Church’s history, Mass was almost universally celebrated with a common orientation. This is simply fact, and this fact at least requires our consideration as to why it was done for so long. After all, it obviously had (and has) value.

Mass in a common orientation has other good arguments in its favor. First among them is that it is symbolic of the priest and people facing in a common orientation, that is, “going toward” a common end, which is Christ. The True Faith being linear in its eschatology, this is very fitting. Also, Mass in a common orientation virtually guarantees that the priest will not give into human inclinations and feel as if he is doing the Mass “at” or “toward” the people. These are only a few of the arguments in favor of this liturgical orientation, all of which are quite practical and reasonable. Some people will say, all these weren’t the reasons why Mass in a common orientation historically developed. I say, so what? That’s fine. These only add to whatever reasons were used to originally justify this orientation.

Mass facing the people has, as far as I can tell, only one truly good argument in its favor, which is that it (sometimes) allows the people to see the consecrated elements on the altar from the Consecration forward. This is certainly a good thing. But I say sometimes because, very often, the hosts are not visible since they are contained in a ciborium, and the Precious Blood is always in a chalice. These things are always opaque, or they should be.
 
Truth is, both can be done well. Both can be done poorly, although I think it is much easier to royally destroy a Mass facing the people than it is to do so to a Mass celebrated facing the apse/in the same direction as the people.

Tradition is a good argument for having Mass facing the same direction as the people. It cannot be denied that for the vast majority of the Church’s history, Mass was almost universally celebrated with a common orientation. This is simply fact, and this fact at least requires our consideration as to why it was done for so long. After all, it obviously had (and has) value.

Mass in a common orientation has other good arguments in its favor. First among them is that it is symbolic of the priest and people facing in a common orientation, that is, “going toward” a common end, which is Christ. The True Faith being linear in its eschatology, this is very fitting. Also, Mass in a common orientation virtually guarantees that the priest will not give into human inclinations and feel as if he is doing the Mass “at” or “toward” the people. These are only a few of the arguments in favor of this liturgical orientation, all of which are quite practical and reasonable. Some people will say, all these weren’t the reasons why Mass in a common orientation historically developed. I say, so what? That’s fine. These only add to whatever reasons were used to originally justify this orientation.

Mass facing the people has, as far as I can tell, only one truly good argument in its favor, which is that it (sometimes) allows the people to see the consecrated elements on the altar from the Consecration forward. This is certainly a good thing. But I say sometimes because, very often, the hosts are not visible since they are contained in a ciborium, and the Precious Blood is always in a chalice. These things are always opaque, or they should be.
Those are all good arguments. Unfortunately, I can’t help believing that, during the many years in which there was common orientation, the overwhelming majority of the Faithful had no idea of the theological implications.
 
Those are all good arguments. Unfortunately, I can’t help believing that, during the many years in which there was common orientation, the overwhelming majority of the Faithful had no idea of the theological implications.
Yes, but I don’t think that really matters. The liturgical minutiae collectively have an impact on people whether they consciously realize every little bit or not. Furthermore, as these things are basically common knowledge now, I see that as essentially another good in favor of Mass in a common orientation. That is to say, since the interested faithful–since there is an interested faithful–do understand the implications now, this cannot be anything but good for arguments in favor of a common orientation.
 
Yes, but I don’t think that really matters. The liturgical minutiae collectively have an impact on people whether they consciously realize every little bit or not. Furthermore, as these things are basically common knowledge now, I see that as essentially another good in favor of Mass in a common orientation. That is to say, since the interested faithful–since there is an interested faithful–do understand the implications now, this cannot be anything but good for arguments in favor of a common orientation.
What percentage of Mass attending Catholics do you include in your “interested faithful”?
 
A little something.

In Roman churches, the altar was freestanding and the design and the orientation of the church was such that the officiating cleric faced the doors of the church towards the East during the Liturgy (the facade was to the east and the apse with the altar being to the west), but it was not versus populum due to the simple fact that the congregation is not in front of him. Instead, the congregation, segregated into men and women, stood in opposing halves of the nave and the adjacent aisles - the men were at the southern side aisle(s), while the women were on the opposite side. They were not standing in the central nave facing the sanctuary front-and-center like we do at church today.



One can actually see a possible vestige of this orientation in the churches of Ravenna. In the basilica of Sant’ Apollinare Nuovo, from what would have probably been the men’s side (here the northern side aisle) you can see the mosaic of Christ and male saints on the opposite southern tier, and from the women’s side (the southern side aisle) you can see the Virgin and female saints.



(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

In some churches (especially in the East), the ambo was located at the center of (or slightly off-center) the nave, which was connected to the sanctuary proper by a kind of raised walkway (a solea), so directly facing the altar front-and-center would have been out of the question. Other churches (for example San Clemente in Rome), meanwhile, had two ambos on both sides of the nave. The center of the church was probably left free when possible to make space for processions and other comings and goings of the ministers, although certain architectural features - such as the solea - might make this moot. In fact, it is possible that in some places the altar was actually located more or less in the middle of the central nave: a 4th-5th century mosaic of a basilica from Tabarka (Roman Thabraca) in modern Tunisia apparently portrays this orientation.
 
Even though the rubrics of the Mass of Pope Paul VI never truly speak about the priest saying mass facing the people, it is allowed by the Church and used in most parishes today. However, prior to the mid-1960’s, Mass was said facing the East to signify the priest (who acts in person of Christ as mediator between God and the people) and the people facing the toward God together as he leads them in their prayers.

Is there any theological, pastoral, etc reason for practicing the method of facing the people as opposed to facing the East?
Well, for one thing, you don’t greet people facing them backwards. I don’t know if it’s even written in the text, but don’t most Masses start out with a “Good morning” or something along those lines? The rest just seems to follow that theme. I’m not defending the posture, however; merely stating an observation.
 
I’d like to know too. The Roman Church worshiped facing East for 1960 years just as the other Churches. Why start doing differently? It shows nothing but disrespect for an ancient form of worship that even the Holy Apostles practiced.
I respectfully disagree. The public worship of the Church in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and in all the Sacraments has developed throughout the ages. All the required parts of the Mass have remained constant but there have been various rites- approved by the Church and valid-that were different from one another. The Church has the authority entrusted to Her by Christ to govern and adapt the Liturgy as She sees fit. Changing a posture DOES NOT mean that the Church is being disrespectful to the Liturgy. It is sad that Holy Mother Church and Her Magisterium are so often misjudged, mistrusted and bad-mouthed by Her own members. TRUSTING in Jesus’s Church and His continual Presence and guidance is essential. Plain and simple.👍
 
I respectfully disagree. The public worship of the Church in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and in all the Sacraments has developed throughout the ages. All the required parts of the Mass have remained constant but there have been various rites- approved by the Church and valid-that were different from one another. The Church has the authority entrusted to Her by Christ to govern and adapt the Liturgy as She sees fit. Changing a posture DOES NOT mean that the Church is being disrespectful to the Liturgy. It is sad that Holy Mother Church and Her Magisterium are so often misjudged, mistrusted and bad-mouthed by Her own members. TRUSTING in Jesus’s Church and His continual Presence and guidance is essential. Plain and simple.👍
The orientation is not intrinsic to either Form. What we argue in these forums is usually in the realm of, “What seems to be the best idea?”
 
Well, for one thing, you don’t greet people facing them backwards. I don’t know if it’s even written in the text, but don’t most Masses start out with a “Good morning” or something along those lines? The rest just seems to follow that theme. I’m not defending the posture, however; merely stating an observation.
I am quite sure that you know how in the Holy Mass celebrated with the priest facing ad orientem the priest will obviously turn around to greet the people (off the top of my head I recall: “Dominus Vobiscum”, “Orate, Fratres”, “Ecce Agnus Dei, Eccei qui tollis peccata mundi.”, “Ite, Missa est”, “Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filius, et Spiritus Sanctus”). And, of course, the homily. But “good morning” or things along those lines do not seem to be in the rubrics 😃

Ultimately, Rome has spoken, and has allowed both postures. That means that both are acceptable, that is, one is not “better” than the other - at least, from a purely liturgical standpoint.
 
Truth is, both can be done well. Both can be done poorly, although I think it is much easier to royally destroy a Mass facing the people than it is to do so to a Mass celebrated facing the apse/in the same direction as the people.

Tradition is a good argument for having Mass facing the same direction as the people. It cannot be denied that for the vast majority of the Church’s history, Mass was almost universally celebrated with a common orientation. This is simply fact, and this fact at least requires our consideration as to why it was done for so long. After all, it obviously had (and has) value.

Mass in a common orientation has other good arguments in its favor. First among them is that it is symbolic of the priest and people facing in a common orientation, that is, “going toward” a common end, which is Christ. The True Faith being linear in its eschatology, this is very fitting. Also, Mass in a common orientation virtually guarantees that the priest will not give into human inclinations and feel as if he is doing the Mass “at” or “toward” the people. These are only a few of the arguments in favor of this liturgical orientation, all of which are quite practical and reasonable. Some people will say, all these weren’t the reasons why Mass in a common orientation historically developed. I say, so what? That’s fine. These only add to whatever reasons were used to originally justify this orientation.

Mass facing the people has, as far as I can tell, only one truly good argument in its favor, which is that it (sometimes) allows the people to see the consecrated elements on the altar from the Consecration forward. This is certainly a good thing. But I say sometimes because, very often, the hosts are not visible since they are contained in a ciborium, and the Precious Blood is always in a chalice. These things are always opaque, or they should be.
The Mass with the priest facing east,I was told ,was with the purpose of the congregation,focusing solely on the Eucharist,during the Consecrstion,w/o being distracted by looking at the priest.
 
I am quite sure that you know how in the Holy Mass celebrated with the priest facing ad orientem the priest will obviously turn around to greet the people (off the top of my head I recall: “Dominus Vobiscum”,…
He does but the rubrics in the EF do not allow the priest to make eye contact with the congregation AFAIK.
 
He does but the rubrics in the EF do not allow the priest to make eye contact with the congregation AFAIK.
In the EF, the celebrant customarily should not lift his eyes to the congregation after he turns from the altar, but rather keep them downcast. Consider that when he is turned towards the altar he is facing God, and the times I clearly know he raises his eyes is during the Canon, when he says: tibi gratias agens, referring to Christ giving thanks to the Father for the bread (and, again, for the wine), and when the Major Elevation takes place. It seems very proper, then, that in this form of the Rite, when he turns towards us, he would adopt that posture, from a symbolic standpoint.

I think some people nowadays - and I don’t want to generalize, that’s never good - have exhalted man so much that they make it almost personal, and I hear people say that the priest “is turning his back on the people” or that “he does not make eye contact”, forgetting that the liturgy is rich in signs and filled with reverence towards God, for the benefit of the faithful, and that even though nowadays we have a wonderful Ordinary Form that has introduced new symbols, the others were practiced for literally ever in the Catholic liturgy and are neither better nor worse, but equal in dignity. If new postures were introduced, it was certainly not - God forbid - a “fix” of the sacred liturgy.
 
However, prior to the mid-1960’s, Mass was said facing the East to signify the priest (who acts in person of Christ as mediator between God and the people) and the people facing the toward God together as he leads them in their prayers.

I
Incorrect .

In 1961 I went to the Eucharist several times and the priest was facing us .
 
The rubrics of the Missal of Paul VI may not call for it, but if you read Inter oecumenici you will see that it facing the people was something that was encouraged.
From the introduction, you can see that what is in this document is instruction, based on what had come out of VII.
I. NATURE OF THIS INSTRUCTION
  1. Among the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council’s primary achievements must be counted the Constitution on the Liturgy, since it regulates the most exalted sphere of the Church’s activity. The document will have ever richer effects as pastors and faithful alike deepen their understanding of its genuine spirit and with good will put it into practice.
  1. The Consilium, which Pope Paul VI established by the Motu Proprio Sacram Liturgiam, has promptly taken up its two appointed tasks: to carry out the directives of the Constitution and of Sacram Liturgiam and to provide the means for interpreting these documents and putting them into practice.
  1. That these documents should immediately be properly carried out everywhere and any possible doubts on interpretation removed are matters of the utmost importance. Therefore, by papal mandate, the Consilium has prepared the present Instruction. It sets out more sharply the functions of conferences of bishops in liturgical matters, explains more fully those principles stated in general terms in the aforementioned documents, and authorizes or mandates that those measures that are practicable before revision of the liturgical books go into effect immediately.
And then, adressing the original point of the post, there is this. The missal didn’t say anything I believe, because it was implied that facing the people was acceptable (preferable?)
  1. The main altar should preferably be freestanding, to permit walking around it and celebration facing the people. Its location in the place of worship should be truly central so that the attention of the whole congregation naturally focuses there.
Even though the rubrics of the Mass of Pope Paul VI never truly speak about the priest saying mass facing the people, it is allowed by the Church and used in most parishes today. However, prior to the mid-1960’s, Mass was said facing the East to signify the priest (who acts in person of Christ as mediator between God and the people) and the people facing the toward God together as he leads them in their prayers.

Is there any theological, pastoral, etc reason for practicing the method of facing the people as opposed to facing the East?
 
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