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Brendan
Guest
The Cathedral has a Sunday Latin Mass. The advantage there is that there is a subway stop very near the Cathedral, so it is easy to get to for most visitors.
Not too sure where the Franciscan Community is.
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Not too sure where the Franciscan Community is.
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OraLabora
Guest
As I recall it wasn’t all that far from the cathedral. I had been directed there by the hotel concierge when I asked where I could attend Mass in English or French. I just kept going back there on every trip to Seoul; there was quite a number of US ex-pats there. I remember I used to walk to Itaewon from there after Mass to pick up some gifts for the family. When I was in Korea, I travelled all over the country (I was an applied scientist in the paper industry), and would have the weekend off in Seoul; I’d travel there for 2 weeks at a time. Made 10 trips in as many years, plus Japan, Europe, South America, South Africa. Most in the days before I reverted to Catholicism (1997), which was about the time I started traveling frequently to Seoul. I left the industry for the IT world in 2002 when I sensed the decline of the paper industry, and stopped traveling internationally on business (except the US) at that time. Still travel for pleasure though! UK (England, Wales and Scotland) this past summer, and Italy coming next month (combined with a meeting in Rome on oblate business at Sant’ Anselmo).
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Ontheway
Guest
Coincidentally I attended a Spanish language Mass at my church yesterday. I know very little Spanish and have to rely on the bi-lingual edition of the missal that a very friendly person hands me every time I worship with the Spanish community.
The Mass is all in Spanish as is the homily. Fortunately the priest is not a native speaker of Spanish so I actually can understand the gist of his sermons. (those who have studied languages know what I mean). But to the point.
I frequently attend this Mass because of the atmosphere. It is prayerful and joyful. Even though it is a guitar mass (culture) and is not my preference, the music is a lot more appropriate than the hymns at the English language mass. People receive communion on the tongue (very few exceptions) and only about half of the participants receive. They seem to understand and remember that communion is preceded by a confession.
After Pater Noster, people go out of their way to shake hands of everyone they can get to, not just the person immediatly next to you. The congregations remains in their pews until the final hymn is finished. Not one person exists the church immediatly after receiving communion.
It seems like a Mass I used to know decades ago. And I like it.
The Mass is all in Spanish as is the homily. Fortunately the priest is not a native speaker of Spanish so I actually can understand the gist of his sermons. (those who have studied languages know what I mean). But to the point.
I frequently attend this Mass because of the atmosphere. It is prayerful and joyful. Even though it is a guitar mass (culture) and is not my preference, the music is a lot more appropriate than the hymns at the English language mass. People receive communion on the tongue (very few exceptions) and only about half of the participants receive. They seem to understand and remember that communion is preceded by a confession.
After Pater Noster, people go out of their way to shake hands of everyone they can get to, not just the person immediatly next to you. The congregations remains in their pews until the final hymn is finished. Not one person exists the church immediatly after receiving communion.
It seems like a Mass I used to know decades ago. And I like it.
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Phemie
Guest
Say, did you ever deal with paper mills in New Brunswick?
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UpUpAndAway
Guest
For nearly fifteen years I have attended Mass in French on Sundays. Starting in 2012 and up until five months ago I attended French-language Mass daily (with the occasional EF Mass, but I assume that’s not what we’re talking about here). My French comprehension is erratic, so I review the readings in my native English the day before. I might understand the gist of one out of six homilies on average, record what I can of the others for later review in an attempt to eventually understand them, and accept my incomprehension of the rest.
As for the order of the Mass, well, if you know it in one language you know it in all of them, right? I mean, even if I don’t understand the words being said, I do know the flow of the liturgy. As a result I’m comfortable attending Mass in any language, even those I have zero working knowledge of. It’s not something I have to “cope” with. At the start of my residence in France, I didn’t speak one word of French so the entire text of the Mass eluded me. Still, I recognized the gestures so I understood what was happening and never felt lost. To participate more actively in a vernacular unfamiliar to me, I mouth the words to the responses in a language I do know. I did this on vacation several months ago when I went to Mass with a reasonable expectation of having it celebrated in French or English and ultimately being surprised that it would be in Portuguese (I was not in a Portuguese-speaking area and there is no significant Portuguese community there). No matter. It was still the Mass.
I’m strongly reminded of the Rosary recited during the nightly Marian procession in Lourdes: each prayer is started in one of a number of languages, and the crowd finishes in whatever language each person knows. It’s a mess to listen to, but what a joyful and beautiful mess!
It works because the majority of those participating know how to pray the Rosary.
This year, I attended the Easter Vigil in the EF for the first time. The (non-practicing Protestant) Husband came with. Despite having a missal in hand, he was lost from the get-go. Twenty minutes later he was kicking up a fuss and threatening to walk out, so I suggested he set the missal aside and just let the liturgy soak in, let it penetrate his heart and soul. He did so, calmed down, relaxed, and remained—happily!—until the Mass ended three hours later. So that is my advice to those who would be perturbed by the prospect of attending Mass in a language unknown to them: don’t try too hard. Release your apprehensions and welcome the presence of the Lord, who knows your heart and understands all languages.
As for regretting the “loss” of Latin, I’m not sure what that means. Most people I know in OF parishes don’t give the scarcity of Latin a second thought, and those I know who regularly attend the EF have nothing to regret.
God bless!
As for the order of the Mass, well, if you know it in one language you know it in all of them, right? I mean, even if I don’t understand the words being said, I do know the flow of the liturgy. As a result I’m comfortable attending Mass in any language, even those I have zero working knowledge of. It’s not something I have to “cope” with. At the start of my residence in France, I didn’t speak one word of French so the entire text of the Mass eluded me. Still, I recognized the gestures so I understood what was happening and never felt lost. To participate more actively in a vernacular unfamiliar to me, I mouth the words to the responses in a language I do know. I did this on vacation several months ago when I went to Mass with a reasonable expectation of having it celebrated in French or English and ultimately being surprised that it would be in Portuguese (I was not in a Portuguese-speaking area and there is no significant Portuguese community there). No matter. It was still the Mass.
I’m strongly reminded of the Rosary recited during the nightly Marian procession in Lourdes: each prayer is started in one of a number of languages, and the crowd finishes in whatever language each person knows. It’s a mess to listen to, but what a joyful and beautiful mess!
It works because the majority of those participating know how to pray the Rosary.This year, I attended the Easter Vigil in the EF for the first time. The (non-practicing Protestant) Husband came with. Despite having a missal in hand, he was lost from the get-go. Twenty minutes later he was kicking up a fuss and threatening to walk out, so I suggested he set the missal aside and just let the liturgy soak in, let it penetrate his heart and soul. He did so, calmed down, relaxed, and remained—happily!—until the Mass ended three hours later. So that is my advice to those who would be perturbed by the prospect of attending Mass in a language unknown to them: don’t try too hard. Release your apprehensions and welcome the presence of the Lord, who knows your heart and understands all languages.
As for regretting the “loss” of Latin, I’m not sure what that means. Most people I know in OF parishes don’t give the scarcity of Latin a second thought, and those I know who regularly attend the EF have nothing to regret.
God bless!
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OraLabora
Guest
Yep, sure did! Miramichi, Dalhousie, Rothesay, etc. All a long time ago, 20+ years.
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Rosebud77
Guest
As for regretting the “loss” of Latin, I’m not sure what that means. Most people I know in OF parishes don’t give the scarcity of Latin a second thought, and those I know who regularly attend the EF have nothing to regret.
God bless!
per fidem intrepidus
Ah I am going back nearly 60 years when Latin was all. I forget how many decades have passed…
God bless!
per fidem intrepidus
Ah I am going back nearly 60 years when Latin was all. I forget how many decades have passed…
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ProVobis
Guest
It was and it is but as Bill Murray once put it, “It has a different vibration.” True from the physics point of view.
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babochka
Guest
This has been my experience with Mass in different languages. The Mass isn’t universal because it has a universal language, it is universal because it is the same Mass in any language.
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ProVobis
Guest
Any APPROVED translation, to be more specific.
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babochka
Guest
While I certainly don’t advocate the use of unapproved translations, it doesn’t make it any less the Mass if one is used. And if the Mass is in a language that I don’t understand, which was the point of this thread, I wouldn’t have the slightest idea that anything was amiss.
Among the English-speaking Byzantine Churches, we have a number of translations in use for the Divine Liturgy. Some I prefer more than others. Occasionally a Melkite priest comes to our Ruthenian parish to serve the Divine Liturgy. Occasionally, he will accidentally use the Melkite translation rather than our own. Technically, it’s an “unapproved translation”. Occasionally, another visiting priest will slip and use the old translation. Its ok. It doesn’t change the reality of the sacrifice that occurs.
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ccmcmg
Guest
We attended Mass while on St. Thomas earlier this year. We actually chose the one that was in Haitian Creole (we also attended in English, the island language, earlier in the week) to engage further in the local culture.
Before Mass, my husband and I read through the Mass readings, as well as the meditations on them (on Laudate app). We then prayed together before the Mass, and prayed to receive the full Graces of the Mass, despite not knowing the language.
It was one of the most beautiful experiences of our lives. Although the homily was about 45 minutes long to start, and then the priest spoke about another 30-45 minutes after Mass, it really did fly by. I know that we received the same Graces, and maybe even moreso, than if the language had been understood by our own. We didn’t know one word.
Anyway, that’s how we approached it. That was our experience. I hope it’s yours as well!
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Rosebud77
Guest
Thankyou and that is sheerly lovely…
I was badly prepared and had already attended Mass at another church. A rare Sunday day out… Just seeing the church door open and people there I could not not go in… It was the sermon that was so very hard though… So long and some of the older Irish priests ramble so much…
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adamhovey1988
Guest
I have gone to Mass in Spanish on occasion, but Spanish isn’t exactly “foreign” in the United States. Then again, I guess Irish isn’t exactly foreign in Ireland either. Latin is very foreign to me, and other than people mis-pronouncing Latin (Ecclesiastical Latin pronunciation should be less like Spanish, and more like Italian) I got along just fine. But I also have a background in foreign languages (because, you know, I taught myself with the aide of books and interwebs. Except French, that I was taught)
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UpUpAndAway
Guest
To be honest, I have never noticed that nor really thought much about it.It was and it is but as Bill Murray once put it, “It has a different vibration.” True from the physics point of view.
Yes, it can be challenging when such a situation catches one by surprise, as in the Portuguese Mass scenario I described earlier. At that point, we do the best we can. The Lord understands and is happy to see us!
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Rosebud77
Guest
It varies, I have lived in Gaeltacht areas before and always the Mass was in English.
I think it depends on how remote and traditional the region is. There are very few places where it is a real daily language so in no way is it the same as eg Spanish . Not an everyday language…
I am a fluent French speaker and pick up languages quickly but have a look at and listen to some Irish Gaelic sites…There seems little connection between written and spoken and I learned the first two words of the Our Father then stopped…
The parents I met that day were doing a great work in ensuring their small children are genuinely bilingual. And they do need to be bilingual in the world today.
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felsguy
Guest
babochka;14166586 The Mass isn’t universal because it has a universal language said:
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ShrodingersCat
Guest
If you want to play around with Irish, Duolingo app has an Irish course
After studying it for 13 years you’d think everyone should be bilingual, but they don’t teach it very well
In one sense, the Gaelteacht is bad for us English-speaking natives… the Irish educational system sort of assumes a level of fluency that we really don’t have outside of the Gaelteacht, at least once you get to the leaving cert.
After studying it for 13 years you’d think everyone should be bilingual, but they don’t teach it very well
In one sense, the Gaelteacht is bad for us English-speaking natives… the Irish educational system sort of assumes a level of fluency that we really don’t have outside of the Gaelteacht, at least once you get to the leaving cert.
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ProVobis
Guest
I have never attended a Byzantine Rite. Now are these translations or are there actual English-written ones?
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babochka
Guest
The Divine Liturgy was originally in Greek, so all English versions are translations. Each sui juris Church has its own translation. The Ukrainians have one, the Ruthenians another, the Melkites yet another. Various Orthodox jurisdictions have their own. An example of the difference: Theotokos is left untranslated, translated as “Mother of God” or translated as “God-bearer”.
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