Mass in Montreal

[lucybeebee]

Several weeks ago, I took a trip to Montreal and saw some of the historic churches. I also went to mass at St. Patrick’s Bascilica twice (Sunday mass and the Feast of the Assumption). Suffice to say, I was scandalized. First, many of the functions that should have been done by deacons were done by women in quasi-liturgical attire (“deaconettes” perhaps?). I found the liturgy to be limp and uninspired, as if the priest was responding to the death of parishioner by trying to communicate, “Well, no one is bothering to show up, so I just won’t try.” I’m almost positive that the congregation was standing during the consecration as well. Is it permissible to use the Apostle’s Creed rather than the Nicene Creed in Canada (I want to know before criticizing on this point)? Is this kind of thing the norm at St. Patrick’s?

 

[marytk]

They do use (or at least did when I have been there) the Apostle’s Creed in Canada. So on that ONE issue they are ok

 

[Caesar]

Welcome to Canada.

This isnt only in Montreal, it is almost everywhere here. You have just described my Diocese and almost every other Diocese in the country.

And yes, we do use the Apostles Creed over the Nicene Creed for some reason.

 

[CatholicNick]

From what ive been hearing, and the good Caesar just confirmed it somewhat, thats the norm in Canada

 

[Servus_Pio_XII]

Auggggh!!!

 

[Vox_Borealis]

Several weeks ago, I took a trip to Montreal and saw some of the historic churches. I also went to mass at St. Patrick’s Bascilica twice (Sunday mass and the Feast of the Assumption). Suffice to say, I was scandalized. First, many of the functions that should have been done by deacons were done by women in quasi-liturgical attire (“deaconettes” perhaps?). I found the liturgy to be limp and uninspired, as if the priest was responding to the death of parishioner by trying to communicate, “Well, no one is bothering to show up, so I just won’t try.” I’m almost positive that the congregation was standing during the consecration as well. Is it permissible to use the Apostle’s Creed rather than the Nicene Creed in Canada (I want to know before criticizing on this point)? Is this kind of thing the norm at St. Patrick’s?

Hmmm. I am a member of St. Pats in Montreal, and I have no idea what you are talking about with women doing th job of deacons. In fact, I switched to St. Pats because they run the tightest liturgical ship in the city (though admittedly, that’s not saying much here). Women never read the gospel or give homilies, etc.

As for uninspired–well, that is subjective, but if you went to one of the lower masses during the summer, you may be right. The older assistant priests just don’t seem to have the energy.

The Apostle’s Creed is the norm in Canada. Blame the CCCB on that one.

It is also the norm in Canada to stand after Mystery of Faith, but I caanot believe that the laity was standing during the consecration–I have just never seen that at any time in St. Pats.

maybe you got your parishes confused. Come back next week for the Novus Ordo Latin Mass–it’s pretty awesome.

 

[lucybeebee]

I wanted to go to the Latin Mass, but seeing as how my trip didn’t coincide with the third Sunday I was out of luck. Maybe the later Masses are better than the earlier ones.

 

[OptimusPrimefan]

I also live in Montreal and attend a parish in LaSalle. The one where scandal was caused when it was revealed that our priest would distribute Communion to our former prime minister despite his public stance on abortion. Our parish is very liberal and almost espouses the ‘We Are Church’ mission statement. Please pray for the archdiocese of Montreal. I would never leave my parish, but I try to fulfill my sacremental needs elsewhere, it is very sad. Luckily the young lions are coming, the new generation of priests who will take back the Church from the ‘Spirit of Vatican II’ liberals (heretics) and replace it:thumbsup: with those who wish to authentically live out Vatican II. The good news is the John Paul II generation priests will soon be ordained in big numbers.

Thanks,
OptimusPrimefan

 

[Caesar]

I also live in Montreal and attend a parish in LaSalle. The one where scandal was caused when it was revealed that our priest would distribute Communion to our former prime minister despite his public stance on abortion.

Martin or Chretien? I think both of them were supposed to be denied the Sacraments because of their roles in the gay marriage issue.

 

[havemercy]

I’m not sure if I’m surprised at all by this thread. I’m glad I’m not alone…

I just got back from my first mass at St. Patricks (downtown)…I am actually quite mad. I didn’t get to go to confession, and the mass lasted 20 minutes. The priest rushed through the liturgy (if you can call it that), skipped doing a homily and did not give us the time to share a sign of peace with eachother. The consecration was totally irreverant. I felt like leaving, but didn’t for the sake of Our Lord.

I hope Latin Mass this coming sunday is an improvement.

I think its okay to stand during consecration, here at least. I’m still not used to kneeling, mainly becaue I don’t know WHEN to kneel (since I’ve never seen anyone do it). And yes, we say the Apostles creed almost everywhere in Canada (don’t ask me why).

Please pray for us! I feel very hurt by the current state of the Diocese of Montreal.

 

[Vox_Borealis]

I’m not sure if I’m surprised at all by this thread. I’m glad I’m not alone…

I just got back from my first mass at St. Patricks (downtown)…I am actually quite mad. I didn’t get to go to confession, and the mass lasted 20 minutes. The priest rushed through the liturgy (if you can call it that), skipped doing a homily and did not give us the time to share a sign of peace with eachother. The consecration was totally irreverant. I felt like leaving, but didn’t for the sake of Our Lord.

I hope Latin Mass this coming sunday is an improvement.

I think its okay to stand during consecration, here at least. I’m still not used to kneeling, mainly becaue I don’t know WHEN to kneel (since I’ve never seen anyone do it). And yes, we say the Apostles creed almost everywhere in Canada (don’t ask me why).

Please pray for us! I feel very hurt by the current state of the Diocese of Montreal.

Man, what masses did you guys attend. I’ve attended mass at every time on Sunday and even during the week at St.Pats, and I have never witnessed a twenty minute mass (35 or 40 minutes has the been the shortest–usually during the summer); I’ve never seen a mass without homily or sign of peace.

Are you sure you’re talking about the right church?

Maybe the 8:00 am mass, which I’ve not attended, but otherwise…

 

[Vox_Borealis]

First, many of the functions that should have been done by deacons were done by women in quasi-liturgical attire (“deaconettes” perhaps?).

I’m sorry, but I can’t let this thread go. The quasi-liturgical attire to which you refer: ALL servers at St. Pats (lectores, cantor, servers [who are adults most of the time], sacristan, etc.–anyone who is in the sanctuary) are supposed to where liturgical garb. Green ‘choir gowns’ for lectors, white alb-like gowns for servers. Also, there is a strict dress code for what is to be worn underneath the garments (for example, dress clothes and tie for men).

I’m pretty sure this is in complete compliance with the GIRM. And in any case, it is far preferable than having people parade up to the altar in various states of slovenly undress.

Really, with all the legitimately whacky stuff that goes on 9and yes, especially here in Canada), I have a hard time beliveing that folks would be scandalized by the parish that, in my experience, conforms the most to the GIRM of any I have attended.

 

[Vox_Borealis]

OK, I’m still on about this. Just look at the General Instruction of the Roman Missal:

1. In the dioceses of the United States of America, acolytes, altar servers, lectors, and other lay ministers may wear the alb or other suitable vesture or other appropriate and dignified clothing.

Presuamably, the Canadian adaptations are similar. Thus, you can see that the servers in ‘quasi-liturgical’ garb were, in fact, legitimately wearing appropriate liturgical garb according to prescribed Church rubrics.

 

[havemercy]

Man, what masses did you guys attend. I’ve attended mass at every time on Sunday and even during the week at St.Pats, and I have never witnessed a twenty minute mass (35 or 40 minutes has the been the shortest–usually during the summer); I’ve never seen a mass without homily or sign of peace.

Are you sure you’re talking about the right church?

Maybe the 8:00 am mass, which I’ve not attended, but otherwise…

I attended the 5:15 mass. The mass was from 5:15 to 5:35. You could tell Padre Pio wasn’t the presider…

Here is the Basilica website.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Although the saintly Archbishop Adam Exner of Vancouver is now retired, one may find the newly-consecrated Bishop Monroe of Kamloops, who is a holy and orthodox bishop. It’s a long drive from Quebec, but all is not lost in Canada. May there be many more Bishop Monroes in the future for your beautiful country and ours too.

 

[trc121805]

Just look at the General Instruction of the Roman Missal:
…

Presuamably, the Canadian adaptations are similar.

The last I heard we didn’t yet have any approved ‘adaptations’ yet in Canada. Several parishes have opted to follow what’s been approved in the US and others are still doing what they’ve always done.

Here’s the ‘latest’ on this from the Canadian Bishop’s website:

September 19, 2000

Explanatory Note
by the Episcopal Commission for Liturgy
on the Revised General Instruction of the Roman Missal

The Vatican Information Service on August 4, 2000, published the following information:

This autumn, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of Sacraments is to publish the Latin text of the new updated Roman Missal.The text of the new Missal has been sent to Episcopal conferences and nuncios in order for them to become aware of the changes and to prepare translations.These, once approved by the Episcopal conferences, will be examined bythe Holy See in order to receive the necessary recognitio, in other words, the confirmation of their juridical value.

The revised General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) is part of the third edition of the Roman Missal. The first edition was published in 1969 and the second in 1975. At the end of August 2000, the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (CCCB) received the Latin text of the new General Instruction of the Roman Missal but has to date received neither the new updated text of the Roman Missal nor the Decree from the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments which will specify the date when the Latin text takes effect.

The following steps are necessary prior to the complete implementation of the revised GIRM in Canada:

1. 
   *]The CCCB is asking the International Commission on English in the Liturgy (ICEL) and the Commission internationale francophone pour les traductions et la liturgie (CIFTL) to prepare official English and French translations of the text.
   *]The bishops of Canada (French and English Sectors) will vote on the translated texts.
   *]The translated texts will be sent to Rome for the recognitio of the Holy See.
   *]Once recognitio is received, bishops and pastors will completethe process of implementing the revised GIRM

1. 
   

   The CCCB Episcopal Commission for Liturgy is aware that an unofficial English summary and a “study translation” of the GIRM are available through theWebsite of the US National Conference of Catholic Bishops / United States Catholic Conference. However, this translation is currently not official even in the United States, much less in Canada. The full implementation of the GIRM in Canada must await the completion of the process described above.

   Canon 835, '1 states:

   The sanctifying office is exercised principally by Bishops, who arethe high priests, the principal dispensers of the mysteries of God and the moderators, promoters and guardians of the entire liturgical life in the Churches entrusted to their care.

   The initial implementation of the revised GIRM is under the aegis of each diocesan bishop. In this initial phase, individual priests and others should follow the directions of their bishop and his coworkers, especially the diocesan liturgy office / commission, so that the implementation of any changes following the new General Instruction are well planned, uniform, correct, and thoroughly explained to all involved.

   September 18, 2000

   Episcopal Commission for Liturgy (English Sector)
   Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops

   I’ve moved on to the indult TLM in my diocese, but at my old parish they still kneel from the end of the Sanctus to the start of the Lord’s Prayer. Then they kneel again when the Agnus Dei is finished until it is time to go up for Communion (although the current missals don’t indicate this last time of kneeling).
   
   In Canada the ‘norm’ really does seem to vary from parish to parish.
   
   Jen

 

[Vox_Borealis]

In Canada the ‘norm’ really does seem to vary from parish to parish.

Jen

Point well taken. But, presumably the CCCB is at least operating under the rubrics of the 1970 GIRM. And in any case, my main point was that there is absolutely nothing wrong with servers and lectors wearing appropriate liturgical garb. The OP was ‘scandalized’ by this and treated it as an abuse–and that’s flat wrong.

Havemercy writes:

I attended the 5:15 mass. The mass was from 5:15 to 5:35. You could tell Padre Pio wasn’t the presider…

Well, you win I guess. I have never winessed such a mass at St. Patrick’s, at the 5:15 or otherwise. But apparently you did. I’ll raise your concerns with the pastor.

 

[havemercy]

Well, you win I guess. I have never winessed such a mass at St. Patrick’s, at the 5:15 or otherwise. But apparently you did. I’ll raise your concerns with the pastor.

Oh, and also, the mass was said in rememberance of someone who had passed away. Thanks for taking this stuff seriously. I think this is motivating me to go the Vocation meetings that I think start this week.

 

[Brendan]

…did not give us the time to share a sign of peace with eachother.

The Sign of Peace being offered between the faithful is an option under both the old and the new GIRM.

It’s omission would not be a liturgical abuse.

Actually, the Mass I attended at St. Joseph’s Oratory in Montreal, or at my in-law’s parish in Drummondville did not use that option either, so it might be a ‘Quebec thing’.

But either way, it’s not an abuse.

 

[OptimusPrimefan]

Hello all,

The former Prime Minister that I was talking about was indeed Paul Martin.

As I had mentioned already there’s a steady stream of young orthodox priests coming up. Some of them are already in Parishes in the West Island of the City, the rest are keeping quiet (swimming upstream if you will). Quebec will return to its Catholic roots, or at least the Church will.

We must continue to pray for our priests.

OptimusPrimefan