Mass no-nos

[milkbar]

Per FrDavid’s request that I start a new thread with these questions, my post from the raising hands thread:

Re: communion services – I see these in my parish bulletin but I am not able to go to weekday Masses, so I don’t know what they are. Does it mean it’s not actually a Mass if it’s called that because the priest is not there? And if the priest is not there, how is the consecration performed? This is not something a parish should allow?

Also, re: the sign of peace – why should the priest not participate? Is the sign of peace not shaking hands? Is it actually something else I’ve never seen before?

The sign of peace question was in reference to someone implying it was not right for the priest to shake hands with people in the front. I’m wondering what exactly makes that wrong–is that not the proper sign of peace (is my parish doing yet another thing incorrectly), or is the priest just not supposed to participate in that, and if not, then why?

 

[Spirithound]

Re: communion services – I see these in my parish bulletin but I am not able to go to weekday Masses, so I don’t know what they are. Does it mean it’s not actually a Mass if it’s called that because the priest is not there? And if the priest is not there, how is the consecration performed? This is not something a parish should allow?

Also, re: the sign of peace – why should the priest not participate? Is the sign of peace not shaking hands? Is it actually something else I’ve never seen before?

The sign of peace question was in reference to someone implying it was not right for the priest to shake hands with people in the front. I’m wondering what exactly makes that wrong–is that not the proper sign of peace (is my parish doing yet another thing incorrectly), or is the priest just not supposed to participate in that, and if not, then why?

A weekday Mass is a Mass that is held on a weekday. The priest must be present for it to be called a Mass. There is one reading from either the New or Old Testament, a Psalm, and a Gospel reading. There is generally no Gloria, or recitation of the Creed. The Liturgy of the Eucharist I believe is abbreviated in some way too.

The priest should not leave the sanctuary for the Sign of Peace for two reasons; firstly, because he should not be leaving the sanctuary, except to distribute Communion, and secondly, because he already offered the congregation peace, and we offered him peace too, right before he suggests we offer each other peace.

 

[jmcrae]

Re: communion services – I see these in my parish bulletin but I am not able to go to weekday Masses, so I don’t know what they are.

A “communion service” is a liturgy that has no priest.

It’s so that the people can still receive Holy Communion, even though there isn’t a priest available. I’m not sure what the rules are on these, but it seems to me that they shouldn’t be taking place so frequently that they would actually be scheduled in the Bulletin. Something seems “wrong” about that.

Your question about the priest giving the sign of the peace has been answered - it’s because the priest has already exchanged a greeting of peace with the whole congregation.

 

[Phemie]

Your question about the priest giving the sign of the peace has been answered - it’s because the priest has already exchanged a greeting of peace with the whole congregation.

That’s not the rationale given in the GIRM. It can’t be or why would the priest exchange the sign of peace with those who are in the sanctuary and, licitly, outside the sanctuary at funerals and weddings.

The priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. In the dioceses of the United States of America, for a good reason, on special occasions (for example, in the case of a funeral, a wedding, or when civic leaders are present) the priest may offer the sign of peace to a few of the faithful near the sanctuary.

 

[zab]

In a Communion service, the Hosts are taken from the tabernacle and distributed. These Hosts have been consecrated by a priest at a prior Mass.

 

[jpjd]

If my memory serves me, here is what happens at a Communion Service: there is one reading, the responsorial psalm, and the Gospel reading. Then there are a few moments of silence (in place of a homily). The petitions are said, then the Our Father, and the sign of peace is exchanged. The person leading the Communion Service removes the ciborium from the tablernacle and everyone says “Lord, I am not worthy…”. Then everyone receives Communion.

There is no consecration at a Communion Service, but the people receive hosts taken from the tabernacle that have already been consecrated at a previous Mass.

In my diocese, a Communion Service used to be allowed, lead by a deacon or trained EMHC, in place of daily Mass if not priest was not available (due to illness or vacation), however, that that is no longer permitted. In our parish, when our priest is on vacation there is nothing in place of daily Mass. Some parishes may do morning prayer.

 

[jmcrae]

That’s not the rationale given in the GIRM. It can’t be or why would the priest exchange the sign of peace with those who are in the sanctuary and, licitly, outside the sanctuary at funerals and weddings.

Thanks!

 

[NHInsider]

A “communion service” is a liturgy that has no priest.

It’s so that the people can still receive Holy Communion, even though there isn’t a priest available. I’m not sure what the rules are on these, but it seems to me that they shouldn’t be taking place so frequently that they would actually be scheduled in the Bulletin. Something seems “wrong” about that.

Only that we don’t have as many priests as we used to. Many parishes have Communion Services during the week. In some places they have them on Sundays, too. It’s unfortunate but it’s not disobedient.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Once a week at my parish, it used to be twice a week, we have Morning Prayer and Communion. It is scheduled in the bulletin I imagine so that people will know there is no Mass on that day but they can receive Communion if they want. Not too many people go it is at 6:45 am.

 

[FrDavid96]

Only that we don’t have as many priests as we used to. Many parishes have Communion Services during the week. In some places they have them on Sundays, too. It’s unfortunate but it’s not disobedient.

That depends. Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest are just that, Sunday celebrations. They’re not intended to be used on weekdays, and unless there’s an extreme need, they’re not permitted. They can’t be done, for example, if there is a priest available to say Mass on either the Sunday before or after. So in practical terms, they’re only allowed on a weekday if a parish has 3 or more Sundays in a row without a priest. The standard here is not just the absence of a priest, but the absence of the possibility of a priest.

 

[benedictgal]

Regarding Communion Services, this is what Redemptionis Sacramentum notes:

1. Particular Celebrations carried out in the Absence of a Priest
   [162.] On the day known as the Lord’s Day, the Church faithful gathers together to commemorate the Lord’s Resurrection and the whole Paschal Mystery, especially by the celebration of Mass.263 For “no Christian community is built up unless it is rooted in and hinges upon the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist”.264 Hence it is the Christian people’s right to have the Eucharist celebrated for them on Sunday, and whenever holy days of obligation or other major feasts occur, and even daily insofar as this is possible. Therefore when it is difficult to have the celebration of Mass on a Sunday in a parish church or in another community of Christ’s faithful, the diocesan Bishop together with his Priests should consider appropriate remedies.265 Among such solutions will be that other Priests be called upon for this purpose, or that the faithful transfer to a church in a nearby place so as to participate in the Eucharistic mystery there.266

[163.] All Priests, to whom the Priesthood and the Eucharist are entrusted for the sake of others,267 should remember that they are enjoined to provide the faithful with the opportunity to satisfy the obligation of participating at Mass on Sundays.268 For their part, the lay faithful have the right, barring a case of real impossibility, that no Priest should ever refuse either to celebrate Mass for the people or to have it celebrated by another Priest if the people otherwise would not be able to satisfy the obligation of participating at Mass on Sunday or the other days of precept.

[164.] “If participation at the celebration of the Eucharist is impossible on account of the absence of a sacred minister or for some other grave cause”,269 then it is the Christian people’s right that the diocesan Bishop should provide as far as he is able for some celebration to be held on Sundays for that community under his authority and according to the Church’s norms. Sunday celebrations of this specific kind, however, are to be considered altogether extraordinary. All Deacons or lay members of Christ’s faithful who are assigned a part in such celebrations by the diocesan Bishop should strive “to keep alive in the community a genuine ‘hunger’ for the Eucharist, so that no opportunity for the celebration of Mass will ever be missed, also taking advantage of the occasional presence of a Priest who is not impeded by Church law from celebrating Mass”.270

[165.] It is necessary to avoid any sort of confusion between this type of gathering and the celebration of theEucharist.271 The diocesan Bishops, therefore, should prudently discern whether Holy Communion ought to be distributed in these gatherings. The matter would appropriately be determined in view of a more ample co-ordination in the Bishops’ Conference, to be put into effect after the recognitio of the acts by the Apostolic See through the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. It will be preferable, moreover, when both a Priest and a Deacon are absent, that the various parts be distributed among several faithful rather than having a single lay member of the faithful direct the whole celebration alone. Nor is it ever appropriate to refer to any member of the lay faithful as “presiding” over the celebration.

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

[167.] “Similarly, it is unthinkable on the Lord’s Day to substitute for Holy Mass either ecumenical celebrations of the Word or services of common prayer with Christians from the … Ecclesial Communities, or even participation in these Communities’ liturgical services”.272 Should the diocesan Bishop out of necessity authorize the participation of Catholics for a single occasion, let pastors take care lest confusion arise among the Catholic faithful concerning the necessity of taking part at Mass at another hour of the day even in such circumstances, on account of the obligation.273

Thus, the document, as I read it, tends to strongly discourage weekday “Communion services.”

 

[GrahamAPhone]

My church has a communion service every morning at 6:30, and a weekday mass at 8:30 every morning

 

[benedictgal]

My church has a communion service every morning at 6:30, and a weekday mass at 8:30 every morning

This is not supposed to be happening. You might want to show your pastor the reference from RS.

 

[Brendan]

Only that we don’t have as many priests as we used to. Many parishes have Communion Services during the week…

As Fr David pointed out, there is no place for a Weekday communion service. The rubric is for a Sunday communion service.

If a priest cannot be present, the correct thing to do would be for a public celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[zab]

As Fr David pointed out, there is no place for a Weekday communion service. The rubric is for a Sunday communion service.

If a priest cannot be present, the correct thing to do would be for a public celebration of the Liturgy of the Hours.

Not quite. As benedictgal highlighted from Redemtionios Sacramentum, “the diocecean Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays…” thus it is not correct to say “there is no place for a Weekday communion service” rather, it is not intended to be a common practice that is easily granted by the local bishop.

 

[ElizabethPH]

I’m interested to know besides those of us that have already mentioned our parishes have a communion service during the week-days, how about you others and your parishes do you have it?

So it’s against the rules to have communion service on week-days if you have Mass the preceding or following Sundays. Am I reading that correctly…sometimes I have a hard time following the written language of the GIRM. I so appreciate all you smart folks here that understand this stuff so easily. Sure helps me out.
Thanks

 

[benedictgal]

I’m interested to know besides those of us that have already mentioned our parishes have a communion service during the week-days, how about you others and your parishes do you have it?

So it’s against the rules to have communion service on week-days if you have Mass the preceding or following Sundays. Am I reading that correctly…sometimes I have a hard time following the written language of the GIRM. I so appreciate all you smart folks here that understand this stuff so easily. Sure helps me out.
Thanks

While some parishes may interpret RS to mean that they can have a Communion Service, that is not necessarily the case. As the documents states, for the sake of repeating:

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose exclusive competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays, especially in places where it was possible or would be possible to have the celebration of Mass on the preceding or the following Sunday. Priests are therefore earnestly requested to celebrate Mass daily for the people in one of the churches entrusted to their care.

This means that the parish has to have a pretty urgent reason as to why they are doing this. And, this section, as I read it, appears to be applicable only in those areas where there are cluster parishes involved. But, if you have a one-priest, one-parish, scenario, then, there should not be Communion services happening. In our diocese, when the pastor (the sole priest) has the day off, there is no daily Mass, and, that is only one day a week.

But, in the case of a previous poster who noted that they have a 6:30AM CS and an 8:30AM Mass on the same day, that should not be happening. The Archbishop of San Antonio, whose jurisdiction covers Converse, needs to be made aware of the situation.

 

[FrDavid96]

I’m interested to know besides those of us that have already mentioned our parishes have a communion service during the week-days, how about you others and your parishes do you have it?

So it’s against the rules to have communion service on week-days if you have Mass the preceding or following Sundays. Am I reading that correctly…sometimes I have a hard time following the written language of the GIRM. I so appreciate all you smart folks here that understand this stuff so easily. Sure helps me out.
Thanks

Yes, you’re reading it correctly. However it’s not the GIRM, it’s a different document called Redemptionis Sacramentum which the Holy See issued in an effort to correct certain abuses.

Here’s a link to the entire Instruction.

adoremus.org/RedemptionisSacramentum.html

It’s more of a matter of saying “it shouldn’t be done” than to outright say “it’s against the rules” because Rome has not yet provided specific “rules” on how Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest can be scheduled–guidelines yes, but not outright laws defining scheduling. The final decision rests with the bishop of the diocese, but he still has to follow the guidelines from Rome. Keep in mind that Rome issued the document for the whole world, so as you can imagine, it’s not exactly easy to address the diversity of situations throughout the world in a single brief document. It’s pretty clear though that if there’s a Sunday Mass, the bishop should not allow Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest to be done on weekdays.

 

[pnewton]

The only time we have a weekday communion service is when something happens last minute to the Parish priest, like he takes ill. Then the deacon will come to lead through a communion service. When scheduling takes the priest away, the daily Masses are cancelled.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Yes, you’re reading it correctly. However it’s not the GIRM, it’s a different document called Redemptionis Sacramentum which the Holy See issued in an effort to correct certain abuses.

Here’s a link to the entire Instruction.

adoremus.org/RedemptionisSacramentum.html

It’s more of a matter of saying “it shouldn’t be done” than to outright say “it’s against the rules” because Rome has not yet provided specific “rules” on how Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest can be scheduled–guidelines yes, but not outright laws defining scheduling. The final decision rests with the bishop of the diocese, but he still has to follow the guidelines from Rome. Keep in mind that Rome issued the document for the whole world, so as you can imagine, it’s not exactly easy to address the diversity of situations throughout the world in a single brief document. It’s pretty clear though that if there’s a Sunday Mass, the bishop should not allow Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest to be done on weekdays.

Thank you and benedictgal as well. I’m so sorry about mistaking the document Redemptionis Sacramentum for the GIRM. Thanks for the link.