Mass Obligation Fulfilled?

[AngelKrad]

Hello, everyone. I have a troubling problem that I would like help with. Here goes:

My brother attends weekly Mass with myself and our family. The problem is that during the profession of faith, he leaves and listens to the remainder of the Mass through the speakers in the Narthex. He insists it is because he has a hard time concentrating in the Church and that focusing on the priest’s voice through the speakers in the Narthex helps him. What I don’t understand is how concentrating on the priest’s voice coming out of his own mouth in a silent church during the consecration is harder than concentrating on his voice through a crackly speaker while being surrounded by all the children and babies who are too disruptive to be in the main Church. I can’t honestly see his motive.

So is his Sunday obligation being fulfilled? Isn’t what he is doing akin to watching Mass on TV? Or standing outside of a Church and watching through a window? Please help soon. If he is erring, I wish to help him as soon as I can

 

[damooster]

Part of fulfilling one’s Sunday obligation is full participation in the Mass. If your brother feels he’s better able to concentrate on the celebrant while standing in the narthex, I see no problem with it. It’s no different than the parents that have to take their fussy children out of the nave when they get, well, fussy. At a parish I frequent, there is a separate television room because the nave is small and nowhere large enough to fit the needs of everyone that shows up. The people that assist at the Mass through the television room come upstairs to receive Holy Communion and they certainly fulfill the Sunday obligation.

However, it’s odd that he’s always leaving during the Creed. Is it possible that he doesn’t wish to recite the Creed for some reason?

 

[AngelKrad]

Part of fulfilling one’s Sunday obligation is full participation in the Mass. If your brother feels he’s better able to concentrate on the celebrant while standing in the narthex, I see no problem with it. It’s no different than the parents that have to take their fussy children out of the nave when they get, well, fussy. At a parish I frequent, there is a separate television room because the nave is small and nowhere large enough to fit the needs of everyone that shows up. The people that assist at the Mass through the television room come upstairs to receive Holy Communion and they certainly fulfill the Sunday obligation.

However, it’s odd that he’s always leaving during the Creed. Is it possible that he doesn’t wish to recite the Creed for some reason?

I just don’t know. And he doesn’t always stand in the Narthex. He mostly brings his girlfriend with him or sits by himself in the hallway to the bathrooms. He can’t even see the altar during the Consecration. To me, it seems like “easier to concentrate” is just his excuse because he wants to leave.

 

[Moscati]

That’s . . . odd. Perhaps he has something keeping him from receiving and doesn’t want to bring attention to the fact that he can’t? Or perhaps he’s sick? Staying near the bathrooms might mean he’s having some kind of illness issue.

I’d say his obligation is being fulfilled (the same as all those moms with babies are), but something else is going on.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hello, everyone. I have a troubling problem that I would like help with. Here goes:

My brother attends weekly Mass with myself and our family. The problem is that during the profession of faith, he leaves and listens to the remainder of the Mass through the speakers in the Narthex. He
So is his Sunday obligation being fulfilled? Isn’t what he is doing akin to watching Mass on TV? Or standing outside of a Church and watching through a window? Please help soon. If he is erring, I wish to help him as soon as I can

he is in the church, he is fulfilling his obligation just as the parents are who are out their walking their restless babies. Why is this a problem for you? He owes you no explanation so why are you demanding one?

 

[AngelKrad]

he is in the church, he is fulfilling his obligation just as the parents are who are out their walking their restless babies. Why is this a problem for you? He owes you no explanation so why are you demanding one?

In my opinion, standing outside the main Church cannot be compared to parents with children. If it was all the same, they would put pews out there. The only reason it’s fine for parents is because they have children with them who are unable to remain quiet enough to stay in the main church. Saying that what my brother is doing is fine by comparing him to parents with unruly children, is like saying that it’s okay to stay home from Mass all together because sick people do. Those are what we call “extenuating circumstances”. The are permitted because… (insert valid reason).

Besides that, I am demanding nothing from him. I simply came here for advice

 

[feargalmac]

Think of the two men who went to the temple to pray (Luke 18). The fact your brother is even attending Mass should be a cause for celebration.

How many Catholics don’t even bother getting out of bed on Sunday?

 

[puzzleannie]

In my opinion, standing outside the main Church cannot be compared to parents with children. If it was all the same, they would put pews out there. The only reason it’s fine for parents is because they have children with them who are unable to remain quiet enough to stay in the main church. Saying that what my brother is doing is fine by comparing him to parents with unruly children, is like saying that it’s okay to stay home from Mass all together because sick people do. Those are what we call “extenuating circumstances”. The are permitted because… (insert valid reason).

Besides that, I am demanding nothing from him. I simply came here for advice

but why do you need advice about what another Catholic is doing at Mass? The advice to you is participate at Mass yourself with all your mind heart and soul and leave off worrying about others in church with you. our opinions are irrelevant, the fact is the narthex is part of church if there are speakers out there and it is being assumed that some people will be standing there because of overcrowding, restless children, or any other reason that seems good to them. Your brother has his reasons, they are not your reasons, I am still puzzled by your concern.

 

[dixieagle]

I agree with puzzleannie.

Another possible reason, however, could be that he is suffering from an anxiety disorder that is worsened by being in a confined space; I have a relative who can only sit in the last row of church, near an exit…just in case. The mere act of sitting there lessens the anxiety.

 

[AngelKrad]

but why do you need advice about what another Catholic is doing at Mass? The advice to you is participate at Mass yourself with all your mind heart and soul and leave off worrying about others in church with you. our opinions are irrelevant, the fact is the narthex is part of church if there are speakers out there and it is being assumed that some people will be standing there because of overcrowding, restless children, or any other reason that seems good to them. Your brother has his reasons, they are not your reasons, I am still puzzled by your concern.

Wow. The fact that he is my brother and not just another Catholic at Mass, counts for something. And yes he does has his reasons but they are also my reasons. If he is unkowingly doing something wrong, out of love I wished to do thorough research about it and then present it to him. You act as though I have been attacking him weekly. I have never spoken to him about it. Being what I’ve heard called a “Selfish Catholic” is not exactly my plan. “I’ll save myself and to hell with the rest of you” (No, I’m not saying he’s going to hell. That’s just the saying". As Catholics we do have an obligation, you know. You’re supposed to teach when you can. You’re supposed to help others. If you know something is wrong, you do nothing about it, then I believe you would be quilty of the sin of omission.

And you’re completely wrong about the Narthex in our parish. It’s not so conveniently situated. If watching the Consecration is optional, if kneeling down in reverance is optional, if giving the appropriate responses is optional… I don’t want to go on.

 

[JerrySeibert]

Awesome response Angel. It is not our job to judge. But, it is our responsibility to “Teach”. Your Brother is lucking to have someone concerned for him. Do not all the Saints in Scripture reading admonish us to “Do better”.

 

[twopekinguys]

I agree with puzzleannie.

Another possible reason, however, could be that he is suffering from an anxiety disorder that is worsened by being in a confined space; I have a relative who can only sit in the last row of church, near an exit…just in case. The mere act of sitting there lessens the anxiety.

I think you’ve touched on something important here.

I suffer from a type of claustrophobia that can be triggered in different ways. It doesn’t have to be a confined space. For example, large crowds, even if I am on the fringe of the crowd, people invading my personal space, etc. etc. It is entirely possible this gentleman is dealing with something similar.

The fact that he is there, participating to the best of his ability, and taking the necessary steps to do that is commendable.

 

[thistle]

Wow. The fact that he is my brother and not just another Catholic at Mass, counts for something. And yes he does has his reasons but they are also my reasons. If he is unkowingly doing something wrong, out of love I wished to do thorough research about it and then present it to him. You act as though I have been attacking him weekly. I have never spoken to him about it. Being what I’ve heard called a “Selfish Catholic” is not exactly my plan. “I’ll save myself and to hell with the rest of you” (No, I’m not saying he’s going to hell. That’s just the saying". As Catholics we do have an obligation, you know. You’re supposed to teach when you can. You’re supposed to help others. If you know something is wrong, you do nothing about it, then I believe you would be quilty of the sin of omission.

And you’re completely wrong about the Narthex in our parish. It’s not so conveniently situated. If watching the Consecration is optional, if kneeling down in reverance is optional, if giving the appropriate responses is optional… I don’t want to go on.

Our Masses are always overcrowded and many people have to stand outside on the street. They can follow the Mass from speakers. That fulfills the Mass obligation.

 

[Cat]

These are just some suggestions that occurred to me while I was reading through this thread.

Does he suffer from migraines?

If so, it’s possible that something about the nave bothers him.

When I was Protestant, there was a church that we attended where the lighting in the sanctuary often triggered a migraine headache for me. We stopped going there.

Someone above mentioned anxiety disorder. Again, it is very possible that there is something in that nave that is triggering his anxiety. It may be something that he is only aware of in his subconcious; e.g., a certain statue or odor that was present during a time when something bad was happening to him as a child.

He may just have ADD and have a hard time staying in one place for more than a few minutes. Sitting out in the lobby gives him the chance to move around. Adults with this diagnosis often move a lot.

One more possibility–was he ever a smoker? A lot of smokers developed the habit of leaving an event to go out and have a smoke. Even if he doesn’t smoke anymore, he may still have the habit of leaving the Mass to go out.

I agree with puzzleannie and others–it sounds like he is fulfulling his obligation. There are other people besides parents who choose to sit in the narthex–e.g., people with Tourette’s, or people who have a chronic cough that isn’t infectious, or people who smoke who need to slip out for a smoke. (I have a friend who is extremely addicted to nicotine who can’t make it through a Mass without smoking at least one, often twice.)

Perhaps you could ask the priest if you are uncertain of the advice you are receiving on this board. But I agree again with others who say, Be glad! So many people come to Mass and do annoying or distracting things like talking, wearing beach clothes, chewing gum, etc. But at least they are at Mass!

 

[ProVobis]

Our Masses are always overcrowded and many people have to stand outside on the street. They can follow the Mass from speakers. That fulfills the Mass obligation.

I think so too. I’ve attended outdoor Masses. Who decides how far away or close to the altar you need to be in order to fulfill your obligation?

 

[puzzleannie]

the fact is OP asked her brother why he did this, he gave his answer, and my advice is to let it go as it does not warrant this lengthy discussion and anxiety. He is doing nothing wrong. yes if it is possible he should kneel at the proper time, but again, if family members start being the liturgy police on each other very shortly somebody is not going to be coming to Mass at all.

I suggest, as I always do, anyone trying to speak to family members about faith and practice issues first read search and rescue by Patrick Madrid, which may save years of distance between you that comes from saying the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong way.

 

[AngelKrad]

the fact is OP asked her brother why he did this, he gave his answer, and my advice is to let it go as it does not warrant this lengthy discussion and anxiety. He is doing nothing wrong. yes if it is possible he should kneel at the proper time, but again, if family members start being the liturgy police on each other very shortly somebody is not going to be coming to Mass at all.

I suggest, as I always do, anyone trying to speak to family members about faith and practice issues first read search and rescue by Patrick Madrid, which may save years of distance between you that comes from saying the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong way.

No, I already stated that I have said nothing to him. I learned of his reason through another sibling who he was talking with. And also, my family’s ties are a little stronger than to be severed over something like this. We really are eachother’s best friends and would take seriously anything brought to us by another. As I said before, I came here solely so that I may get advice first. But now that I have it, I’m good. I suppose I’ll refrain from talking to him about it.