Mass obligation (w/mask)

[JulianN]

Let’s look at logic…

Let’s look at reality:

Absence of Apparent Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from Two Stylists...

On May 12, 2020 (day 0), a hair stylist at salon A in Springfield, Missouri (stylist A), developed respiratory symptoms and continued working with clients until day 8, when the stylist received a...

www.cdc.gov

Masks are effective, easily tolerated by most people, and inexpensive. You can make one out of a bandanna or old T-shirt.

If a person has a disability, physical or mental, that precludes them from wearing a mask, the ADA requires reasonable accommodations be made. That might include curbside pickup of merchandise, or delivery.

It’s been clearly defined on the ADA website that those accommodations do not extend to admitting unmasked people into locations where masks are required and other people are present.

I truly do not understand how these basic health precautions became politicized.

 

[EXdrinker]

Masks are effective

All of the “studies” and aggragate of multiple studies usually only say masks “may” or “could” reduce transmission. When they do say that they do reduce transmission it is usually accompanied by the “low certainty” qualifier.

If the virus is as scary as being hyped then who would even go get a hair cut? The mixed messaging is why many do not take any of this seriously and some believe we should shutdown the world until there is a cure. .0003% or lower isn’t worth affecting the lives of millions, many of whom have never been anywhere where covid is prevalent.

 

[pnewton]

If the virus is as scary as being hyped then who would even go get a hair cut?

Without a mask? I cannot imagine who would want to. I guess someone who denies COVID is real, or at least a deadly illness?

 

[JulianN]

If the virus is as scary as being hyped then who would even go get a hair cut?

Well, certainly not without a mask.

 

[Canvas]

In my Archdiocese all Parishoners are required to wear masks the entire service with Reception of Communion being the ONLY exception. We also have every other pew blocked off, hand sanitizing stations and no singing by the parishoners. At the last few Masses I have been to, we have had a song sang at the close of Communion by only the Cantor, but that is it. The Psalms are recited.

Where I have been, the Church has done a very good job keeping people safe at Mass.

I am a big proponent of masks. I feel that masks, good hand hygiene, social distancing, common sense, prayer (and vitamin D and zinc supplements) will go a long way to significantly temper the spread of this very contagious virus. I feel it is a terrible shame that after all of the sacrifices made in the spring that some people acted irresponsibly and some states (like Florida) refused to enact common sense measures to impede the spread of COVID. Now, that spread is uncontrolled in many areas and is spilling back into states like mine where we had significant reductions in cases for a period after being hit hard.

 

[runningdude]

If you are dispensed from attending in your diocese, then you have no obligation to go to mass. It is entirely a matter of prudence whether to voluntarily attend or not.

 

[Poet]

In a public health crisis as grave as this the rights of society must take priority over individual rights.
What do we have instead - these cry babies about their rights because as long as they get their way they don’t care if they infect other people.

This ‘public health crisis’ is largely manufactured.

The death rate is about .03%.
Dr. Birx freely admitted they’re counting any death ‘with’ covid as ‘of’ covid. This includes things like car crashes and suicides. So the death rate everyone is reporting isn’t accurate.
States that were forced to revise to more accurate numbers came up with 25% fewer deaths.
We have a drug known to work well.

So why are we forcing people to do something that is harmful to many of them?

If someone ends up with burning lungs from a mask–that makes them a ‘cry baby?’
What about the raw skin described in another post here? Just being a cry baby?
Ending up in the emergency room fighting to breathe at all – just being a crybaby?
Blacking out and falling? Just being a crybaby?

All this and much more has happened to people wearing masks.

No, the benefits do not outweigh the very real consequences we are inflicting on others and I find it heartless of you to call people ‘cry babies’ when they are suffering very real and in some cases serious consequences from being forced to wear a muzzle.

 

[Poet]

Poet:

People all over the web are reporting…

And as others have said: there’s growing evidence that…

This is the danger of the internet today. There is more misinformation from everyone who thinks he is an expert. Those that seek confirmation of any position will always find it.

BTW, this fallacy is appeal to common knowledge. “People” and “there’s” as opposed to actionalble evidence. To teach our children critical thinking we must first have that knowledge.

Ah, true, we should be wary of what we read on the internet. Where are you getting your information? From the internet? From someone who said something? From a study you chose to believe?

When I say people are reporting, I’m talking about hundreds, probably thousands, of comments on social media, on YouTube videos of people telling what the masks are doing to them personally.

You have two choices: believe them or assume they’re lying. I have seen plenty of people who choose to believe that every single one of these people (and the thousands not reported here) are simply lying.

PERSONAL STORIES

myemail@example.com We have been told repeatedly that masks are perfectly safe. In traveling the web however, thousands of people are speaking out about the negative health effects they’ve ca…

maskdangers.wordpress.com

 

[Poet]

Poet:

People all over the web are reporting a plethora of problems

Much of what people all over the web report is fashionable nonsense.

masks do just about zero to actually protect anyone, in part because they now know asymptomatic people do not spread this virus

There have been so many cases of asymptomatic spreaders, I frankly don’t see how you can write this. Could you tell us who “they” are who “now know” this?

forcing everyone to put on a muzzle isn’t doing much at all to reduce the spread.

Let’s compare covid-19 cases in states where most people wear masks to those where they don’t. What’s the difference?

What people report: Of course people can say what they want but if you discount what I’m saying, then please tell me where you get your information? Off the internet? From what people say?

Yes, people can say what they want but when we see hundreds and thousands of people telling the same story, we must either conclude in our almighty wisdom that everyone who says what we disagree with is a liar, or we must re-consider what we have believed.

I see comments all over social media, youtube, forums, telling first hand experiences with masks causing respiratory and other health issues. I have seen a serious respiratory issue firsthand in my own family, with the person in question being raced to ER having trouble breathing.

We were told weeks ago that asymptomatic spread is rare. We’ve been told it’s spread on ‘droplets’ so if no one is coughing and sneezing, where are these droplets coming from?

As to infection rates compared to mask wearing, you’ve cherry-picked and you’ve assumed that the correlation in these two examples equals causation.

There are entire countries (Switzerland) which have very little mask wearing and are doing quite well. South Dakota, for example, has no mask requirements at all and one of the very lowest death rates of .9 per 100,000. North Dakota, with some requirements has a death rate of 1.7 per 100,000. Wyoming, 1.0 with some mask requirements.

New York by contrast has 76.2, New Jersey, 53.5, Connecticut 39.9, Massachusetts 28.5, and Michigan, with some of the most draconian control on people’s lives, 27 per 100,000.

And as previously said, it’s not a simple causation. There are many factors. For instance: covid is much less prevalent in countries with high danger of malaria. Nigeria, Congo, Uganda, Ivory Coast, and Mozambique have had zero covid deaths and they are in the top countries hit by malaria. Dr. Stella Immanuel believes their low incidence of covid (in some of those countries 0 cases) is due to their high use of hydroxychloroquine.

My point overall is: there’s much more to the story. Yes, some sources say this is a major crisis and we’re all going to die if we don’t wear masks (and soon, goggles). Other sources say we have a cure and deaths are over-reported and the danger hyped.

We should be looking at ALL these sources and weighing all the information and discussing, rather than insulting each other

 

[27lw]

I went to Mass yesterday for the first time since June.
There was noticeably less social distancing, for instance, there used to be two empty pews between the occupied pews, now there’s just one.
A teen girl and her dad wore their masks in the main aisle and then fully pulled them down once they sat in their pew. Did they think they’re invisible once they got in their pew? It was quite noticeable because the girl got up at one point, put her mask on properly, went to the restroom (I guess), then again pulled down her mask once she was back sitting in her pew.
I’m not going back to Mass any time soon. Too many people not taking it seriously. If they can’t bother to follow the bishop’s instructions to mask while in church, why don’t they stay home?

 

[Bernoulli]

We were told weeks ago that asymptomatic spread is rare. We’ve been told it’s spread on ‘droplets’ so if no one is coughing and sneezing, where are these droplets coming from?

Saying that asymptomatic spread is rare is misleading, and the statement was clarified later. The disease may be spread four days before the onset of symptoms. In practice, there is no difference between asymptomatic and presymptomatic spread as for the precautions. The disease is spread not only by droplets but also by small-particle aerosols that are emitted by breathing and speaking, but even more through loud vocalization: shouting, cheering and singing.

 

[OddBird]

There are entire countries (Switzerland) which have very little mask wearing and are doing quite well.

Not that well. I live in Switzerland. There is a disquieting increase in cases, and more and more states are mandating masks on public transportation and in closed spaces.

We’ve been told it’s spread on ‘droplets’ so if no one is coughing and sneezing, where are these droplets coming from?

Speech.

About 1000 droplets which stay in the air for 10 minutes for every single minute you speak.

 

[Canvas]

This ‘public health crisis’ is largely manufactured.

The death rate is about .03%.

This is not “manufactured.” It is extremely serious. Hundreds of people are dying daily in the US. Even “mild” cases, ones where people do not go to the hospital are nasty, with being very ill for 2-3 weeks. There are all kinds of effects being reported, from pulmonary, to digestive, to cardiovascular and even neurological. It is extremely contagious.

Just because someone isn’t killed doesn’t mean they do not get very sick. I have had severe illness before, and I survived but I was in the hospital and it was miserable.

Second, we do not know what the death rate actually is. Not only that, but the death rates go up with age. It is very dangerous to poeple who are elderly, have medical conditions or are immuno-compromised. These are the observed death rates, which are not accurate either (because many non-symptomatic or mildly symptomatic cases are missed)

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

 

[pnewton]

It was quite noticeable because the girl got up at one point, put her mask on properly, went to the restroom (I guess), then again pulled down her mask once she was back sitting in her pew.

Oh, that was the other thing, our bathrooms are “closed.” They have signs, and are available for emergencies, but they have to be cleaned after each use.

I am sorry your parish was not maintaining discipline. I wish I could get more people to attend ours like you, as we have maintained extremely strict discipline. We even have confession again, though it too has changed locations, distances, and cleaning between each penitent.

 

[Gorgias]

Beryllos:

Anesti33:

I have a full beard, so I am under no pretense, when I wear my dust mask, that I am protecting anyone

Hey, at least you’re setting a good example for those around you.

It’s sad when we’ve come to a place in this country where we’re considered to be ‘setting a good example’ by doing something that’s absolutely worthless.

It’s sad when we’ve come to a place in this country where we’re considered to be ‘setting a good example’ by taking matters into our own hands and ignoring the directions given by civil authorities and medical experts.