Mass on Christmas Eve and Christmas?

[Phemie]

That would be liturgically incorrect according to the rules of the Lectionary. Midnight Mass readings may only be used for Midnight Mass, Mass beginning at midnight. There is a reason the Church has gone to the effort to specifiy four different sets of readings.

The Canadian Lectionary says that if you want to celebrate the Solemnity of Christmas on December 24 you are to use the readings for the Mass during the Night. For December 25 the Lectionary says “During the Night: The texts below may also be used for Masses on Christmas Day. The readings from any of the Christmas Masses may be used according to the pastoral needs of each celebration.”

 

[Vox_Borealis]

The Canadian Lectionary says that if you want to celebrate the Solemnity of Christmas on December 24 you are to use the readings for the Mass during the Night. For December 25 the Lectionary says “During the Night: The texts below may also be used for Masses on Christmas Day. The readings from any of the Christmas Masses may be used according to the pastoral needs of each celebration.”

This may be true. I live in Canada–the Church is a disaster here, and this “mass during the night” sleight of hand is but one small symptom of the broader illness.

But whatever, this is the same national bishops’ council that basically got rid of every holy day of obligation, refuses to adopt the 2000 GIRM, and forged ahead with an unapproved lectionary translation for 17 years.

 

[Phemie]

This may be true. I live in Canada–the Church is a disaster here, and this “mass during the night” sleight of hand is but one small symptom of the broader illness.

But whatever, this is the same national bishops’ council that basically got rid of every holy day of obligation,

All but 2 and that was reviewed by Rome in 1985.

refuses to adopt the 2000 GIRM,

Until they get the translation of the Missal in 2009 (that follows the letter of the law if not the intent).

and forged ahead with an unapproved lectionary translation for 17 years.

It was approved for the US when the CCCB published the Lectionary but the approval was rescinded. It’s true that Rome had given them 5 years to get a new translation and they’ve managed to stretched that to 15 years. We should be getting our new Lectionary around the same time as our new Missal.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Any Mass beginning between 4pm and 11:59 pm is required to be the Christmas Vigil Mass. Midnight Mass is not to start before midnight. Midnight Mass readings may only be used at Midnight Mass.

Yes I understand. I was just being silly about that fact that many parishes have their last Christmas Eve Mass at 10:30 or thereabouts instead of midnight. Our 10:30 Mass is not advertised as a “midnight mass” and I trust our very orthodox pastor to do the right thing. However, I am not the liturgical police, so I will not be double-checking everything that happens during that Mass.

 

[Vox_Borealis]

Phemie,

It’s all foot-dragging and obstruction with the CCCB. The refusal to approve the GIRM is a perfect example: if one looks really hard on their web page, you will find one document document that mentions in passing that the CCCB will approve the new GIRMonly after translations in English AND French are approved. Now, since the same good folks dragged out the lectionary process, as you note, for around 15 years, how long do you think it will take for the English AND French translations to be approved, sent to Rome, sent back to Canada, sent back to Rome, etc?

Meanwhile, the liturgical abuses run rampant, if not somewhat encouraged by the CCCB’s own laissez faire attitude. The CCCB is at least tacitly hostile to Rome and does anything in its power to ignore or water down directives, especially on matters regarding liturgy.

 

[Vox_Borealis]

Continuing my midnight mass rant…

Phemie, do a search for “midnight” on the CCCB website. Three documents come up, recently dated (2006, I believe), which ALL comment on mass at midnight and say nothing about moving the mass to an earlier time. Two of the documents are identical and describe the different masses for Christmas, except one has a heading for Midnight Mass and the other for Mass During the Night. And here we see the magic of the CCCB–without any formal explanation or justification, the name of the mass is changed. But that opens the door for “mass during the night” to be celebrated whenever (like my own parish, whose “mass during the night” starts at 8 pm).

Now, is midnight mass a big deal in and of itself? Maybe not. But this is so typical of the CCCB in general: obstruction, indifference, subtle shaping and shifting of norms, etc. And over time they get what they want, a group of uninformed laity who say “we don’t do THAT anymore” and who view any attempt by Rome to actually encourage the real norms as “papal interference.”

Slack. Very slack.

 

[Phemie]

Phemie,

It’s all foot-dragging and obstruction with the CCCB. The refusal to approve the GIRM is a perfect example: if one looks really hard on their web page, you will find one document document that mentions in passing that the CCCB will approve the new GIRMonly after translations in English AND French are approved. Now, since the same good folks dragged out the lectionary process, as you note, for around 15 years, how long do you think it will take for the English AND French translations to be approved, sent to Rome, sent back to Canada, sent back to Rome, etc?

The French/English translation argument is one that I encountered in 2003 “We are a bilingual country we must release both translations at the same time.” My argument “Since there is already an approved translation in France and in the US & England, what are WE really waiting for?” It’s particularly annoying when the ORDO constantly refers to a document we don’t have – except for what I printed off from the Web at the time. I suspect that they have applied for indults but the ones I can think of were all dealt with in Redemptionis Sacramentum and the answer is NO.

Meanwhile, the liturgical abuses run rampant, if not somewhat encouraged by the CCCB’s own laissez faire attitude. The CCCB is at least tacitly hostile to Rome and does anything in its power to ignore or water down directives, especially on matters regarding liturgy.

No kidding. But it’s not just liturgy. The “Winnipeg Document” has never been rescinded although some bishops have asked for it to be.

 

[Vox_Borealis]

Phemie,

The French/English translation argument is one that I encountered in 2003 “We are a bilingual country we must release both translations at the same time.”…

Ah, I see you’ve been through this before as well!

 

[KephasAugustine]

Midnight Mass isn’t a vigil.

Really? I’ve heard it referred to as the Midnight Vigil. I somehow grew up with that understanding.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

The Canadian Lectionary says that if you want to celebrate the Solemnity of Christmas on December 24 you are to use the readings for the Mass during the Night. For December 25 the Lectionary says “During the Night: The texts below may also be used for Masses on Christmas Day. The readings from any of the Christmas Masses may be used according to the pastoral needs of each celebration.”

The US lectionary also says that.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

The Canadian Lectionary says that if you want to celebrate the Solemnity of Christmas on December 24 you are to use the readings for the Mass during the Night. For December 25 the Lectionary says “During the Night: The texts below may also be used for Masses on Christmas Day. The readings from any of the Christmas Masses may be used according to the pastoral needs of each celebration.”

That applies to our Canadian viewers, I don’t live in Canada, my comments apply to the US.

 

[Digitonomy]

Are we flip-flopping between time measurement of the Jews and today’s time for convenience?

Yes we are. The Church has the authority to determine how we measure days and how our obligations may be fulfilled in canon law, and they have done so - our job is to obey.

 

[rwoehmke]

Yes we are. The Church has the authority to determine how we measure days and how our obligations may be fulfilled in canon law, and they have done so - our job is to obey.

Quite correct, the obligation to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of obligation is a precept of the Church, not one of the Ten Commandments. Keep holy the Lord’s day is the commandment, the Church tells us when and how to do that, which can be changed and modified by the Church…

 

[peregrinus_sg]

Regarding the choice of readings for Christmas day, it is legitimate for pastors to use any of the 3 sets of readings given for Christmas Day during any of the Masses celebrated on 25 Dec.

The rubric is included in the English lectionary for use in the UK, as well as in the 1970 Latin Lectionarium:

In Missis quae celebrantur in die Nativitatis adhibentur formularia hic notata, cum facultate eligendi textus aptiores lectionum ex una e tribus Missis, attenta opportunitate pastorali uniuscuiusque coetus.

 

[Leopard]

The bolded Masses would not count toward the vigil “rule”.

I think the Ordinary may permit Christmas Eve masses earlier than 4:00 pm in his diocese if he so chooses, or conversely he may require that they begin later. Ask your pastor or the Chancery office if you have any question about early Masses in your parish. I do not have an exact source for this and will accept correction if I am mistaken.

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

What time on Monday can the mass count as Christmas Vigil?

If it varies from diocese to diocese, then what time on Monday can the mass count as Christmas Vigil in Louisville, KY?

Many thanks

Have a wonderful and blessed Christmas!

 

[benedictgal]

What time on Monday can the mass count as Christmas Vigil?

If it varies from diocese to diocese, then what time on Monday can the mass count as Christmas Vigil in Louisville, KY?

Many thanks

Have a wonderful and blessed Christmas!

While the anticipated Vigil Mass for Sunday can be celebrated commencing at 4PM Saturday afternoon, you might want to call your parish to see what time their first vigil Mass is. My parish is starting its Christmas Vigil at 6PM in English and 8PM in Spanish, while my Dad’s is starting it at 6:30PM. The Cathedral is in the same time frame.

The one vigil Mass that has strict parameters is the Easter Vigil. It cannot start no earlier than after sundown. This is covered in Paschalis Sacramentalis. In other words, the Easter Vigil cannot start at 4PM or at the same time that the normal parish anticipated Sunday Mass begins on a normal Saturday late afternoon/evening.

But, as far as the Christmas Vigil, as I said before, check with your parish, or, if you live in your diocesan see (Louisville?), you might verify what time your Cathedral is having it.

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

Thank you

 

[bpbasilphx]

If it varies from diocese to diocese, then what time on Monday can the mass count as Christmas Vigil in Louisville, KY?

Wouldn’t the sensible thing to do be to call the Chancery of Louisville, if that’s what you really want to know?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

What time on Monday can the mass count as Christmas Vigil?

If it varies from diocese to diocese, then what time on Monday can the mass count as Christmas Vigil in Louisville, KY?

Many thanks

Have a wonderful and blessed Christmas!

The earliest that it can start anywhere in the US is 4PM according to the Norms of the USCCB. A local Bishop could requires a LATER time in his diocese.