Mass: standing after mystery of faith

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Do you stay kneeling after Mystery of Faith until the Great Amen? Or do you stand?
 
I do what the local Ordinary has ordered for the Church where I am worshipping.
 
In the USA one should kneel (if health permits) after the Sanctus, through the Mystery of Faith, and stand after the Amen.
 
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Unless the local Ordinary has deigned otherwise.

Obedience is the King of virtues.
 
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The Vatican’s directive on this issue is to remain in the posture which has been assumed previously. Dispensation has been given to the various dioceses (and usually on to the individual priests) to allow for the congregation to stand during the Eucharistic Prayer in special circumstances (rocky or wet ground if having mass outside, etc.) or seated if physically unable to kneel or stand for long periods. This posture is to be kept from the Sanctus until the Great Amen. It would only be through special dispensation given to an Episcopal Conference to allow for the change in posture between the Mystery of Faith and the Great Amen due to local tradition. I do not know of any Episcopal Conference which have been given this dispensation.
 
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CRM_Brother said:
I do not know of any Episcopal Conference which have been given this dispensation.
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I don’t even know what an episcopal conference is, pardon my ignorance.
For example in Hong Kong, people stand after the Mystery of Faith as a routine. How do I check whether Hong Kong has been given a dispensation or not? And does anyone know the reasoning behind standing during this part of the Mass? I’ve always found this a curiosity.
Many thanks.
 
When did that occur? The GIRM calls only for kneeling during the Consecration, and has done so since 1975. The latest edition of the GIRM says in article #43
The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant, or while the Priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Universal Prayer; and from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below.

The faithful should sit, on the other hand, during the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm and for the Homily and during the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory; and, if appropriate, during the period of sacred silence after Communion.

In the dioceses of Canada, the faithful should kneel at the Consecration, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration.

Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the Priest says Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), it is laudable for this practice to be retained.
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An Episcopal Conference is a conference of the bishops of the various dioceses of a certain area. Usually, they are grouped within countries, but smaller countries with only a few diocese sometimes group together with other countries to form a conference.

First, I would contact the Diocese of Hong Kong’s Liturgy Commission. They would be able to tell you the correct procedure. Because Hong Kong’s culture and traditions are unique within the region and its Episcopal Conference, it may have been given the dispensation from the Vatican directly. According to the Diocese of Hong Kong’s website, the info for the Liturgy Commission is below.

DIOCESAN LITURGY COMMISSION

10 floor, Catholic Diocese Centre,

16, Caine Road, Hong Kong.

Tel : (852) 2522-7577, 3589-2456

Fax: (852) 2521-8034

E-mail: hkcdlc@catholic-dlc.org.hk

Website (1): http://catholic-dlc.org.hk/

Website (2): http://liturgy.catholic.org.hk/
 
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And just so you know, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with standing during the Anaphora.

In the East, many Churches still to this day stand throughout the entire Liturgy almost, only sit a few times, and never kneel.

It is a purely Latin liturgical custom to kneel during the Anaphora - it is not some intrinsically necessary gesture. So this is not an issue which should trouble you.

As I’ve said from the beginning - do what the local Ordinary wants the parish to do.
 
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The GIRM is, indeed, a General instruction. It contains the normal rubrics for celebrating the Sacrifice of the Mass. It, however, is not absolute and the ultimate ruling lies with the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments. The language used in the passage you quoted states the norm of this section of the mass, but it leaves room for these dispensations to be granted in the occurrence of pastoral needs. It specifically says “The faithful should stand…”, etc. In the cases of required actions which do not allow for deviations, the GIRM is emphatic, “The Priest approaches…” or ‘the faithful proclaims…’, etc. I know for a fact that it is not just dioceses which receive the dispensation, as the priests celebrating mass in conjunction with the International Catholic Commission on Scouting and their various National Committees have received this same dispensation for faithful to stand during the Eucharistic Prayer when celebrating Mass in the field.

I am not aware of the first date this specific dispensation was given. All I know of is that it does indeed exist.
 
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I still want to see a document that says we should maintain the same posture throughout the Eucharistic Prayer. Because the universal GIRM obviously doesn’t come close to saying that. It says, specifically
It is for the Conference of Bishops, in accordance with the norm of law, to adapt the gestures and bodily postures described in the Order of Mass to the culture and reasonable traditions of peoples.

However, attention must be paid to ensuring that such adaptations correspond to the meaning and character of each part of the celebration. Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the Priest says, Ecce Agnus Dei (Behold the Lamb of God), it is laudable for this practice to be retained.
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The USCCB has adapted the GIRM to requires kneeling throughout the EP. The CCCB requires kneeling only at Consecration, as do the Conferences of of England and Wales and of France who don’t include any adaptations in their published GIRMs but rather use the universal version.
 
I do not have the document. Most of my information was from a pronouncement to the priests and religious of our diocese by our Bishop on the efforts of Catholic Bishop’s Conference of the Philippines attempt to receive approval to formally adopt the change in posture from kneeling to standing at the Sanctus. For years the Conference sought the Vatican’s approval, but never received it because the tradition of standing at the Sanctus began in the Philippines after the publication of the GIRM. The Vatican allows this in dioceses and episcopal conferences where the tradition was already established, but currently does not give formal approval for dioceses to change from kneeling throughout the Eucharistic Prayer to standing at the Sanctus. It is not a formal policy, but it is the current reply to the diocesan inquiries on the issue.

Personally, I don’t mind standing at the Sanctus. I am simply recording the current attitude of the Vatican on the issue. I don’t doubt that this attitude will change over the years, but it is always up to the Prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments for the current stance of how the GIRM is to be implemented.
 
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I’ve never been at a Mass where we’ve knelt for the Sanctus, and that includes Masses I’ve attended across Canada and in Italy, France and Holland. We always kneel immediately after the Sanctus. In some parishes we stand again at the Mystery of Faith, in others, my present parish included, we remain kneeling until after the “Amen”.

There have been the odd parishes where we never knelt at all during Mass but those are rarer since the new GIRM was promulgated back in 2011.
 
I apologize. I misspoke. I meant standing after the Mystery of Faith, not the Sanctus.
 
I had been under the impression that the US was the only place to kneel throughout the entire Eucharistic Prayer and everyone else stands after the acclamation.
 
i’ve only been attending catholic mass for 5 decades

what is the “mystery of faith” ?

i just do what every one else does (kneel, sit, stand…)

maybe i am a dummy…
 
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CRM_Brother said:
I apologize. I misspoke. I meant standing after the Mystery of Faith, not the Sanctus.
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Oh, no problem. Sometimes we can read something five times without realizing what’s really written. Somewhat like me searching through my purse for my keys: they’re not there on the first four attempts to find them but dumping my purse reveals they were there all along. 😁
 
Cor_ad_Cor said:
I had been under the impression that the US was the only place to kneel throughout the entire Eucharistic Prayer and everyone else stands after the acclamation.
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In Canada it varies. I understand that some Bishops have mandated kneeling throughout for all parishes in their diocese, but most haven’t. In the parishes which have no mandate beyond the GIRM it varies by parish. Even two parishes in the same town don’t necessarily do the same thing.
 
ratio1 said:
In Australia people kneel after Sanctus until after Great Amen.
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Yes, the ACBC, like the USCCB, has that adaptation, as well of that of kneeling after the Agnus Dei, included in their published GIRM.

The US conference makes it mandatory to kneel after the Agnus Dei unless your bishop has mandated standing at that point. The Australian Conference doesn’t give bishops that option.
 
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