Mass still valid?

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bquinnan

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At what point, exactly, can liturgical abuse render a Mass invalid? For example, if the priest adds his own spin to the Eucharistic prayers, is it still valid? Our priest has started adding a sung line, “We thank you and sing …” at various points in the prayer, at which point the choir and some of the congregation sing, “Hosanna in the highest.”

I know Canon law stipulates that he isn’t supposed to add to the prayers, but what if he does anyway? Is it still valid? Is this discussed in Canon law or any Church documents?
 
Our priest seemed to indicate that the Mass is still valid pretty much no matter what, that if he does anything to make the Mass “invalid” it falls on him not us… that it’s valid for us and a stain on him… I always fear misquoting a priest, in case I mis-understood. But it seemed to me like he was indicating that he could be as far wrong as using grape juice and white bread and we would still have received the body of Christ but boy would he have hell to pay… that as a servant the ultimate responsibility for the validity of the Mass lies with him.
 
A mass cannot be “invalid”

A mass can be licit or illicit.

The eucharist, however, can be valid or invalid.

If the priest does not use the proper form of the sacrament (bread, wine, words of institution, properly ordained priest/bishop doing this) then the sacrament won’t confect.
 
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BobCatholic:
A mass cannot be “invalid”

A mass can be licit or illicit.

The eucharist, however, can be valid or invalid.
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Thanks for the correction.
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BobCatholic:
If the priest does not use the proper form of the sacrament (bread, wine, words of institution, properly ordained priest/bishop doing this) then the sacrament won’t confect.
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Can you refer me to any specific documentation to this effect? I’m wondering how specifically the words of institution have to follow the script, and whether interruptions to those words prevent confection.
 
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bquinnan:
At what point, exactly, can liturgical abuse render a Mass invalid? For example, if the priest adds his own spin to the Eucharistic prayers, is it still valid? Our priest has started adding a sung line, “We thank you and sing …” at various points in the prayer, at which point the choir and some of the congregation sing, “Hosanna in the highest.”
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It sounds like he is using one of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children. These, of course, are only to be used at Masses in which the majority of the congregation are children.
 
Bob, on what grounds do you say that a Mass cannot be invalid? It is either a Mass or it is not. If it is a Mass, it is valid, if it is invalid, it is not a Mass. If transubstantiation does not occur, the Mass is invalid. Practically speaking, if you are under obligation to go to Mass (i.e. if it is a Sunday, etc) and you know that the Mass is invalidated, you would have to go to a valid Mass if possible.

The validity or invalidity is important as regards obligation at least.

Maggie, if the proper Form, Matter, and Intent are not present, there is no sacrament. If the Priest uses grape juice, you do not receive the Body of Christ.
 
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BobCatholic:
If the priest does not use the proper form of the sacrament (bread, wine, words of institution, properly ordained priest/bishop doing this) then the sacrament won’t confect.
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The priest also needs to have the “intent” to consecrate the Eucharist.

From: catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Homiletic/11-96/4/4.html
In the days when priests were reciting-on their knees-“Preces ante Missam,” in particular the last one: “Declaratio intentionis ante Missam.” “Ego volo celebrare Missam, et conficere Corpus et Sanguinem Domini nostri Jesu Christ, juxta ritum sanctae Romanae Ecclesiae . . . .” (I intend to celebrate Mass, and confect the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, our Lord, according to the rite of the holy Roman Church), one never or seldom heard of priests celebrating invalid Masses!
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bquinnan:
At what point, exactly, can liturgical abuse render a Mass invalid? For example, if the priest adds his own spin to the Eucharistic prayers, is it still valid? Our priest has started adding a sung line, “We thank you and sing …” at various points in the prayer, at which point the choir and some of the congregation sing, “Hosanna in the highest.”

I know Canon law stipulates that he isn’t supposed to add to the prayers, but what if he does anyway? Is it still valid? Is this discussed in Canon law or any Church documents?
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To answer the first part of your post, there are guidelines for Mass. They are spelled out in the “General Instructions to the Roman Missal”, or as we liturgist like to call it, “The GIRM”. If all parts are satisfied, it is a valid Mass. Don’t confuse it with a “Communion Service” where a Priest is not present, rather Communion is given from the reserve inthe Taburnacle for such purposes.

As for the Eucharistic Prayer, and the adding of the singing portion of the prayer, there are several new Eucharistic prayers that have recently been put forth, which include the singing participation of the Assembly in response to the Prayer. This should have been part of the supplament to the Sacramentary and should be included in the newly revised, revised version that should be coming out soon. When is it coming out? The Committee says within the next two years. Then again, they’ve been saying that for the last 10. (You should see our Sacramentary now.)

If you have any questions, check out the “GIRM” especially those relating to the Litugical documents.
 
The validity of the mass is entirely dependent of the act of Consecration of the bread and wine into the crucified, resurrected, and glorified Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord. They key factor in this are the words of consecration uttered by the priest acting in the person of Christ Himself.

“This is my body” “This is my blood”

A valid mass must have an offering (the bread and wine), the consecration by a validly ordained priest, and communion.

As long as these requirements are met, the mass is valid no matter how bad the abuse.
 
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