Mass when in a state of mortal sin?

[GraceDK]

People can go to Mass every day. Missing a daily Mass is not a mortal sin. So what is so special about a Sunday Mass;

Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.

2 Leviticus 23

24 Say to the children of Israel: The seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall keep a sabbath, a memorial, with [t]he sound of trumpets, and it shall be called holy.

3 Exodus 31

16 Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant

4 Exodus 31

14 Keep you my sabbath: for it is holy unto you: he that shall profane it, shall be put to death: he that shall do my work in it, his soul shall perish out of the midst of his people.

5 4 Kings 11

7 But let two parts of you, all that go forth on the sabbath, keep the watch of the house of the Lord about the king.

8 2 Esdras 13

22 I spoke also to the Levites that they should be purified, and should come to keep the gates, and to sanctify the sabbath day: for this also remember me, O my God, and spare me according to the multitude of thy tender mercies.

9 Exodus 35

2 Six days you shall do work: the seventh day shall be holy unto you, the sabbath, and the rest of the Lord: he that shall do any work on it, shall be put to death.

Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.

If you love me, keep my commandments.

Do not think that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

Presumably the Law to keep Holy the Sabbath always stands, including its penalty, but the motive has shifted in the New Testament to observance from Love, as opposed to a tendancy of motives to stem from Fear in the Old Testament. Sunday Mass is attended from motives of Love of God. Is there any better way of fulfilling this Old Testament Law.

Thank you for references. But let me ask you something. Do you tithe too? You see many places in the OT these two, sabbath and tithing, are written next to each other. So I have for a long time felt that one without the other shows a lack of logic.
However, I still dont believe that its right for a Christian to damn a person to hell just because he did not attend sunday mass. We know that according to the pharisees Jesus and His disciples overstepped the sabbath rules when they ate in the field.

We should keep the sabbath… yes… by what? the passage talks about resting. You talk about going to Mass. I have often kept sabbath on saturday while i stayed in Israel and then I went to church then and did not work. othertimes I have had to work both saturday and sunday and I believe I did not commit death sin, because I would have another day of rest in that week.

See, you may call me liberal, but I believe the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Ps… Would you address the quotes from Paul???

 

[Joe_5859]

We should keep the sabbath… yes… by what? the passage talks about resting. You talk about going to Mass. I have often kept sabbath on saturday while i stayed in Israel and then I went to church then and did not work. othertimes I have had to work both saturday and sunday and I believe I did not commit death sin, because I would have another day of rest in that week.

We Catholics are required to go to Mass every Sunday, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions for legitimate reasons. Some legitimate reasons would be sickness, distance, and, yes, even work. Of course, we should make every reasonable effort to get to Sunday Mass that our work schedule will allow, but that’s sometimes not possible (especially for people like nurses or doctors or firemen who may work or be “on call” for long weekend shifts).

So don’t despair of your eternal salvation!

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you for references. But let me ask you something. Do you tithe too? You see many places in the OT these two, sabbath and tithing, are written next to each other. So I have for a long time felt that one without the other shows a lack of logic.

The Church was given authority by Christ to establish the disciplines of the Church, and the Church does what She thinks her Lord requires of her, for the welfare of her children. So, although tithing is not required, we do have a law that says we must contribute to the welfare of our priests, in whatever way makes sense to us - by means of volunteer work, by monetary contributions, or by giving him useful gifts.

However, I still dont believe that its right for a Christian to damn a person to hell just because he did not attend sunday mass.

Actually, it’s we who damn ourselves to Hell - other Christians have nothing to do with it, other than to warn us of the fact, when we are doing so.

We know that according to the pharisees Jesus and His disciples overstepped the sabbath rules when they ate in the field.

Actually, they didn’t. What Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees was that they were attempting to create a law where none actually existed - the Law itself actually made provision for those who were hungry, and for other necessary work on the Sabbath. Jesus’ own example was of the ox who gets itself trapped in a pit - you don’t wait 24 hours to get him out; you rush to his aid straight away. How much more so, for human beings.

 

[GraceDK]

We Catholics are required to go to Mass every Sunday, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions for legitimate reasons. Some legitimate reasons would be sickness, distance, and, yes, even work. Of course, we should make every reasonable effort to get to Sunday Mass that our work schedule will allow, but that’s sometimes not possible (especially for people like nurses or doctors or firemen who may work or be “on call” for long weekend shifts).

So don’t despair of your eternal salvation!

Hey Joe… thanks for your attempt to make me feel good but it does not really help. It only looses all logic when you say that even work is an excuse … I mean… then we have really made void the command of the OT that someone was referring to.
However, Joe, what I am really disturbed by is not that the Church gathers like a family on Sundays but that it makes a ritual observance into a new law that must be kept in order to avoid hell. One famous philosopher in my country said that nothing blasphemes a good deed more than when its done out of calculation. Thats why I am also disturbed at this making something beautiful that should be an act of love into an act of duty.

 

[GraceDK]

**The Church was given authority by Christ to establish the disciplines of the Church, and the Church does what She thinks her Lord requires of her, for the welfare of her children. So, although tithing is not required, we do have a law that says we must contribute to the welfare of our priests, in whatever way makes sense to us - by means of volunteer work, by monetary contributions, or by giving him useful gifts. **

Yes… but the Scribes and priests of Israel did also have this divine mandate… they put extra burdens on their flock until they made them guilty of hell… This is Scriptural fact and you know it. So authority is there, but it does not mean that that authority is well used in all circumstances or with the right balance… Do you think its completely unthinkable that the Church might be making the same mistakes that the first Church/Ecclesia/Israel did?

**Actually, it’s we who damn ourselves to Hell - other Christians have nothing to do with it, other than to warn us of the fact, when we are doing so. **

Actually, teachers and prophets have a tremendous responsibility … and yes… so do alot of others. To say a person is solely repsonsible for his/her own fate is simply not consistent with reality.

Actually, they didn’t. What Jesus pointed out to the Pharisees was that they were attempting to create a law where none actually existed - the Law itself actually made provision for those who were hungry, and for other necessary work on the Sabbath. Jesus’ own example was of the ox who gets itself trapped in a pit - you don’t wait 24 hours to get him out; you rush to his aid straight away. How much more so, for human beings.]

But again… the leadership of Israel had mandate to teach… Jesus himself said to obey the seat of moses because of that authority. But they used the authority to make rules and halacha upon halacha… They lacked love and and made rules that drove out love and instilled fear and calculation in the people of God… thats why Jesus was mad at them…

Again… I long to hear someone, anybody, address the quotes from Paul that are very clear: “let no one condemn you because of days or food”… all these will pass away but love will never pass away.

Peace…

 

[jmcrae]

Again… I long to hear someone, anybody, address the quotes from Paul that are very clear: “let no one condemn you because of days or food”… all these will pass away but love will never pass away.

Peace…

One way to make them not condemn you would be to attend Mass every day, rather than only on Sundays.

When Jesus told people to follow the law of love rather than the law of the Pharisees, He never mentioned that they should do less than the requirements of the Pharisees - instead, He called them to do even greater things. He said, “The Law says that you shall not kill. I tell you, you shall not be angry. The Law says that you shall not use swear words. I say that you shall not insult anyone, even without swear words. The Law says that you must give your coat when it is asked of you. I tell you to give not only your coat, but also your cloak. If they demand that you walk with them one mile, go with them freely for two miles.”

We take back our freedom, not by doing less than is required of us, but by doing more than is required of us.

 

[GraceDK]

One way to make them not condemn you would be to attend Mass every day, rather than only on Sundays.

When Jesus told people to follow the law of love rather than the law of the Pharisees, He never mentioned that they should do less than the requirements of the Pharisees - instead, He called them to do even greater things. He said, “The Law says that you shall not kill. I tell you, you shall not be angry. The Law says that you shall not use swear words. I say that you shall not insult anyone, even without swear words. The Law says that you must give your coat when it is asked of you. I tell you to give not only your coat, but also your cloak. If they demand that you walk with them one mile, go with them freely for two miles.”

We take back our freedom, not by doing less than is required of us, but by doing more than is required of us.

Good point brother… BUT the pharisees would see it the other way around. They would see the lack in fulfilling the commands… whereas Jesus knew the only ingredient that truly fulfills any law or command is Love.

 

[jmcrae]

Good point brother… BUT the pharisees would see it the other way around. They would see the lack in fulfilling the commands… whereas Jesus knew the only ingredient that truly fulfills any law or command is Love.

There is no law in the Catholic Church where if you did it more times than required by the law, would ever cause anyone to condemn you.

Also, the minimums are not particularly arduous. One hour a week at Mass is really not that much. Once a year for Confession and Holy Communion are not all that much, really, and abstaining from warm-blooded meat on Fridays isn’t that big of a deal - you can’t eat meat every day, anyway, or else you’ll become seriously ill with heart disease, etc., so you might as well make Friday to be one of the days that you don’t eat meat.

 

[jcrichton]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe 5859
Yes, the obligation to attend Mass remains, whether one receives the Eucharist or not. To skip Mass just because one is not able to receive Communion would be to add another mortal sin. We are obligated to attend Mass every Sunday and on the established Holy Days of Obligation.

I find this very distressing… after having come so far…after having accepted all the things that converrts normally have problems with … should I now fall on this teaching?.. this statement that stands there on black and white in your post and in church teaching obviously… but which is contradicted in the Bible itself…

*Hi, Grace!

…I hope this is the issue that we spoke about on the other thread…

I believe you are in error… too many times we want to rely on Scripture “alone” to difine Christian Doctrine… it just doesn’t work!

The Ten Commandments are filled with omnious words (ONLY YAHWEH IS GOD; KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY: HONOR YOUR PARENTS; DO NOT…), and while it is true that Jesus summarized them into “Love Yahweh God above all and your neighbor as yourself,” He did not removed our obligation to fulfill them.

Something strange happened with the observance of the Sabbath (day of rest)… it was changed to Suday (the Day of our Lord, Jesus Christ–first day of the week). But the observance of that portion of the Ten Commandments did not change.

…something strange also happened with the way we worship Yahweh God… we are to worship in Spirit and Truth (Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ).

…one more strange thing happened… Jesus instituted His Church; with the institution of the Church the new Covenant succeeded the old… bringing a new spiritual economy; right after instituting the Church (Kephas, on this rock I will build my Church) Jesus laid down the foundations of the Church’s authority:

• …if your brother sins against you… bring it to the Church and if he would not listen to the Church, let the Church cast him out…
• (All power has been given to me in Heaven and on earth) “I give you the keys …what ever you bind on earth shall be considered bound in Heaven…”

When the Church tells us that we must keep Sunday holy she is not passing judment or condemning anyone to hell; the Church is simply reminding us of the Ten Commandments. She uses the Authority inherited from Jesus to teach us that we are to remain loyal to God’s Commandments. And, through the same Authority, the Church is flexible enough to understand that (as you pointed out in Paul’s writings) all of the days are holy because they are given to us by God and we are to exist in Jesus (be holy for I am Holy) so when authentic circumstances make it impossible for us to keep Sunday holy, we are to substitute another day as that Sabbath’s observance (many just simply ignore the observance altogether).

There is no contradiction of the Holy Scriptures… there’s only obedience to God’s Commandment.

Alas. I dont think I can ever in my heart believe that I or anyone else sins to death because they did not make it to the Sunday Mass, or if they chose not to come sometime for reasons of their own.

To me, when you say: non-attendance equals death sin… You have made a new Mosaic law.

We are created in the image and likeness of God… so we are free to choose to accept or deny anything and everything… but as Paul said “not everything edifies.” Choosing to subvert the mandates of the Church because of “reasons of our own” does not equate to being in fulfillment of Jesus’ Commandment (“the Will of the Father”). Hence, Jesus warns that even those who perform miracles and cast out evil spirits, and heal the infirm… are not guaranteed entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven; only those who do the Will of the Father will enter: The Will of the Father is that we Listen to Jesus; Jesus Command us that we abide in Him: His Body: the Church.

“One man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind (and so too with eating meat or abstaining from it) - You then, why do you judge your brother?” (Romans 14:5)

And now you are child of God… “formerly you were a slave… but now, how is it that you want to turn back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved all over again?You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.” (Gal 48-11)

You see, I am not against that the Church comes together on Shabbat or Sunday but when we make ritual observances into laws that, in them selves have power to condemn or save a man… we bring calculation and sin into the picture because the law leads to death…
Its in cases like these where Catholicism reminds me of pharisaic judaism that I become most concerned…

The problem lies in “who” determines things… Did Jesus state “if you disagree with your brother, let him be cast out” or “…worship God as you see fit; create your personal norms as you go?” No. And the Apostles themselves (including Paul) did not seek to create their own brand of doctrine… note that even when Paul says that each man is to make up his mind about the observance of the day, the Church gathers on the Day of the Lord to fulfill His Command to Keep (Commemorate) the Last Supper–personal freedom does not trump adherence to the Church’s Authority.

I think that what is happening to you is something that happens to many… Christians want a “free worship”; this is similar to hollo-wood’s “free love” or “free life/lifestyle:” the individual gets to set his/her own parameters. So too some Catholics believe that it is their “right” to ignore all of the Church’s Teachings that they “feel” would hinder their “freedom of expression or being.”

Jesus did not spouse His disciples with such understanding: “If you Love Me, Keep my Commandments.” “I am the Vine you are the branches… abide in Me…”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Unfortunately this does apply to me, and sadly, I think there are quite a few Catholic women who share my situation. Some acknowledge it and some don’t, some receive absolution for it and some don’t.

My struggle, as you can see if you view other posts of mine, is that for various reasons, (excuses?) I can’t seem to convince myself that I should have more children. Because of this and my frustration with NFP, I’ve been using BC. Because of this, I not allowing God’s will to be done.

I think most who are in my situation are able to personally justify using it, and I can’t. Therefore, I go to Mass every Sunday and cry throughout. I can’t personally come to peace with it, and then I go to Mass and it’s even worse. And then Communion comes and I have to exit the Church or I’ll be a wreck. So I guess I was wondering why I put myself through it.

I’ve always wanted a large family, but I can’t get over one significant life-altering event and jump back into it. And now this is where I am.

Hi, Colleen!

I do not mean to question your determination… if your situation is due to medical reasons, I do not see how you cannot appeal to your local bishop or his superior…

…leaving that aside, are you aware that many Catholics are not able to receive the Holy Communion due to illness or disability?

You might consider Spiritual Communion and a regular visit to the Blessed Sacrament–you have a major crusade in your hands (if you wish to accept it): convert your mind (if your decision is not based on medical reasons), engross yourself in the Peace that Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament brings, and pray, powerfully, for those in your situation (not able to receive the Holy Eucharist).

You can make your affliction into a wonderful tool to renovate and convert your life and the lives of others.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Also, my son just had his first confession in preparation for his first communion, and I’m trying to explain how wonderful it all is for him without telling him just why I can’t take part.

Hi, Colleen!

…this is the most difficult part of your situation… teaching children the value of receiving the Holy Communion while the parents themselves are not able/committed to partaking in the Supper of our Lord.

I wish that all Catholics remembered that, “…do as I say, not as I do,” has never worked. Teaching through example is the only way that we can bring the next generation into the fold of Christ’s Body. This is specially so for parents. Hence, I implore you to not just sit back and hope for a miracle… make one happen!

Give yourself to the Lord fully, convert yourself and your spouse to the Lord and you will be able to not only say how wonderful it is to receive the Holy Communion but to share the experience with your loved ones.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[KCoyle33]

I feel so sorry for al you ladies and wish you would search the scriptures or a better way would be just read your bible which is the holy word of god which in fact jesus was the word made flesh and stop feeling the heavy burden the catholic church has placed on you. In matthew jesus says he will remove your burdens and give you new ones, one which is light and a pleasure to bear. And before im attacked iv been confirmed, had my 1st communion etc grew up in the church but im pleased to say iv found the truth and it was freely reading the word without any man or woman “priest, pastor or vicar” interpreting it for me. So although im not knocking anyone’s faith i assure you reading your bible will set you free as thats how christ speaks to us and answers us so no longer look to man who is human and just as much of a sinner as you and i are and look to god who is the word.
Ps it is not the priests job to absolve your sins you can confess to anyone and god will absolve your sins as it was paid for before you did it repentance is the cure and that is were most of us fail
pps to the woman who has waited 20yr to get married can i say its about bloody time if i knew your man i would kick him up the arse for making you wait 20yrs.
Peace in christ to you all
sorry about the caps on the letters.

 

[Joe_5859]

I feel so sorry for al you ladies and wish you would search the scriptures or a better way would be just read your bible which is the holy word of god which in fact jesus was the word made flesh and stop feeling the heavy burden the catholic church has placed on you. In matthew jesus says he will remove your burdens and give you new ones, one which is light and a pleasure to bear. And before im attacked iv been confirmed, had my 1st communion etc grew up in the church but im pleased to say iv found the truth and it was freely reading the word without any man or woman “priest, pastor or vicar” interpreting it for me. So although im not knocking anyone’s faith i assure you reading your bible will set you free as thats how christ speaks to us and answers us so no longer look to man who is human and just as much of a sinner as you and i are and look to god who is the word.
Ps it is not the priests job to absolve your sins you can confess to anyone and god will absolve your sins as it was paid for before you did it repentance is the cure and that is were most of us fail
pps to the woman who has waited 20yr to get married can i say its about bloody time if i knew your man i would kick him up the arse for making you wait 20yrs.
Peace in christ to you all
sorry about the caps on the letters.

Welcome to CAF!

Just FYI, this thread is 5 years old. You’ll probably have better luck engaging in discussion if you post in an active thread or start a new thread.

After you spend some more time here, I am sure you’ll find that most of the Catholics here are very familiar with the Bible. There are also many tracts on the Catholic Answers page that address those criticisms that come up over and over again (like confessing our sins to a priest). I would encourage you to read through them as it will give you a good sense of where we’re all at and thus save some repetitive posting.

God bless!

 

[KCoyle33]

Hey Joe ( cool hendrix song)

Yeah i did see that after i posted it that it was ancient but it was late last night and i had been on the site for a few hours reading tracts and exploring the site as i had got fed up at the way the catholic church is attacked from all sides with YouTube being a major source for attack with countless videos and as i said i was raised in the catholic faith which i feel was a blessing. I got the feeling you think i just came on, read something, and pre-supposed and passed judgement before i had explored the site which isn’t what happened as i said i had spent a fair bit of time exploring and personally thought what i had found was the best advice, sound biblical teaching of any site i have visited, which is alot, i think iv explored most major religious sites from the witnesses to pentecostal ism with Muslim, atheism, protestantism and every other ism in between. Just before anything is pre-supposed again, im not searching for answers or truth, i found it years ago in the Word and in our Lord as i said i was fed up hearing and seeing the bad press and the attacks on the church and wanted to see what true Catholics had to say on it and again as i said i have found it personally a great source for personal development.
So yes i do know the reasoning of why Catholics confess to the priest. And just like most world religions the actual believers are mostly good people who want to serve God and live a life pleasing but like most organisations have been polluted with mans dogma and as much as i know some Catholics read the bible i think you and me know most do not and totally rely on mans interpretation of it ie the priest but even that the Jehovah witnesses know the bible back to front but yet deny the holy trinity so even people who read the bible do not get the truth because of man`s involvement in corrupting that truth and when i say corrupting it isn’t always done intentional it can be unintentional but the main point is people like the ladies who left these comments were being denied a true relationship with our Lord which and if it offends you im sorry but its because of the moral dogma of the church.
You seem like an intelligent guy who knows his stuff so you will know the true church isn’t a organisation its people, so when we read revelation and the letters to the 7 churches we see even God is telling us we still haunt got it right and that includes the catholic church. So although my post is years to late my point is not.
God bless you too.