Mass

[ksirdad]

Is a priest allowed to let youth to read the Gospel during Mass?. He has also decorated the Altar for the different readings for each Sunday Gospel during Lent. The kids act out the readings and read the Gospel during the Mass up on the Altar

 

[dandn5000]

Youth reading the Gospel? That’s a big, big no-no.

Decorating the altar? Iffier. Depends on the decorations.

Acting out the readiings? Big no-no. But the youth reading the Gospel is a bit bigger, methinks.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Is a priest allowed to let youth to read the Gospel during Mass?. He has also decorated the Altar for the different readings for each Sunday Gospel during Lent. The kids act out the readings and read the Gospel during the Mass up on the Altar

The Lectionary allows certain Gospels to be read in a dialogue style.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The Lectionary allows certain Gospels to be read in a dialogue style.

Yes, for example, the gospel for Palm Sunday can be read by several readers in dialogue, with the congregation saying the part of the ‘people’ usually.

But if I’m not mistaken, there are not very ‘many’ gospels to be done in that style and the priest is almost always to read the part of Christ. IOW, it is nearly impossible for the priest (or deacon) NOT to be reading at least one PART of the gospel, and it is well nigh impossible for one youth to read the gospel ‘solo’. Correct?

 

[dandn5000]

The Lectionary allows certain Gospels to be read in a dialogue style.

I thought of that, too, but aren’t all the dialogue Gospels later on in lent, as in around Palm Sunday and Holy Week?

What I got from the OP was more in general, kids reading the Gospel. That would be forbidden.

(Forgive me, ksirdad, if I’m mistaken. )

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Yes, for example, the gospel for Palm Sunday can be read by several readers in dialogue, with the congregation saying the part of the ‘people’ usually.

But if I’m not mistaken, there are not very ‘many’ gospels to be done in that style and the priest is almost always to read the part of Christ. IOW, it is nearly impossible for the priest (or deacon) NOT to be reading at least one PART of the gospel, and it is well nigh impossible for one youth to read the gospel ‘solo’. Correct?

That’s correct.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I thought of that, too, but aren’t all the dialogue Gospels later on in lent, as in around Palm Sunday and Holy Week?

What I got from the OP was more in general, kids reading the Gospel. That would be forbidden.

(Forgive me, ksirdad, if I’m mistaken. )

I wasn’t there, I just sugested one possibility, maybe the OP can clarify, exactly what was done.

 

[jmcrae]

Is a priest allowed to let youth to read the Gospel during Mass?. He has also decorated the Altar for the different readings for each Sunday Gospel during Lent. The kids act out the readings and read the Gospel during the Mass up on the Altar

The way I understand it is that the Gospel is to be read out by a member of the Clergy - deacon, priest, or Bishop - and that the homily is also supposed to be delivered by (and hopefully also written by) a member of the clergy.

We used to have a priest (God rest his soul) who would read out of something like Our Daily Bread (it was a Catholic equivalent; I can’t remember what it was called), with little reflections in it given by women. It was definitely not intended for use at Mass, but he happened to like these little things.

They were the oddest sounding homilies, though, when he would read out things like, “My husband and children” did or said this or that. Members of the parish who didn’t know what his source material was thought that he was losing his mind - we had a Novena to St. Dymphnia, patron Saint of the insane, going around for him at one point.

 

[benedictgal]

The Lectionary allows certain Gospels to be read in a dialogue style.

I’m afraid to dispute you. The only times that this can happen are Palm Sunday and Good Friday when the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ is proclaimed. The faithful have their part. The priest reads the part of Christ. There are also parts for a narrator and a speaker other than Christ.

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say:

[63.] Within the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy, the reading of the Gospel, which is “the high point of the Liturgy of the Word”,139 is reserved by the Church’s tradition to an ordained minister.140 Thus it is not permitted for a layperson, even a religious, to proclaim the Gospel reading in the celebration of Holy Mass, nor in other cases in which the norms do not explicitly permit it.141

It is certainly ilicit for these kids to be performing a skit in lieu of the Gospel.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’m afraid to dispute you. The only times that this can happen are Palm Sunday and Good Friday when the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ is proclaimed. The faithful have their part. The priest reads the part of Christ. There are also parts for a narrator and a speaker other than Christ.

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say:

It is certainly ilicit for these kids to be performing a skit in lieu of the Gospel.

“I’m afraid to dispute you.” Are you saying that the Lectionary does not allow any Gospels to be read in dialogue style?

OR are you saying that the OP wasn’t refering to dialogue style with the priest reading the part of Christ? That wasn’t clear to me in the OP.

 

[Phemie]

“I’m afraid to dispute you.” Are you saying that the Lectionary does not allow any Gospels to be read in dialogue style?

No, she said only the readings of the Passion can be done that way so having kids read the Gospel at this week’s Mass was an abuse.

Other than the Passions, do you know of any other Gospel written in dialogue style contained in the Lectionary? Those are the only ones I’ve seen written that way.

 

[benedictgal]

No, she said only the readings of the Passion can be done that way. Other than the Passions, do you know of any other Gospel written in dialogue style contained in the Lectionary? I’ve never seen any.

Thanks, Phemie. That’s what I was trying to say. From what the OP noted, they appeared to be using the dialogue version which is not allowed under normal circumstances, except, of course, during Palm Sunday and Good Friday.

Interestingly enough, the Passion reading at the Vatican is divided between three deacons. Furthermore, it is chanted in Latin. This makes sense because, since you have every language under the sun at a Papal Mass, you can’t very well have the people read the parts that correspond to them. You would have a repeat of the Tower of Babel on your hands.

But, having seen both the English and Spanish lectionaries, I have never seen the Gospel (or any other reading, for that matter) divided into sections similar to the Passion. Not even the Lectionary approved for Children has that option.

What is even scarier is when some creative genius decides to do the dialogue bit during the Christmas Eve vigil in lieu of having the Gospel, or the homily, for that matter.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

No, she said only the readings of the Passion can be done that way. Other than the Passions, do you know of any other Gospel written in dialogue style contained in the Lectionary? I’ve never seen any.

Not specifically because I don’t have a Lectionary to look at, which is why I originally said simply that the Lectionary allows some readings to be read that way, not specifying which one’s. I simply asked the OP if it were possible that they read todays Gospel in that manner.

 

[Phemie]

Not specifically because I don’t have a Lectionary to look at, which is why I originally said simply that the Lectionary allows some readings to be read that way, not specifying which one’s. I simply asked the OP if it were possible that they read todays Gospel in that manner.

Well, today’s Gospel does lend itself to this very well since it’s basically a dialog between Jesus and the woman at the well. But the Lectionary doesn’t give us the option to have several people take on the various parts. It only has the option of a through reading. That should be a hint that it’s not allowed.

 

[Mgkwho]

My college just started something new yesterday- they read the Woman in the Well in three parts, with the priest as Jesus. What church teaching says this can not be so, and what teaching says a priest has to play the part of Jesus?

Redemptionis Sacramentum says “explicitly clear” but does that only mean the longer lenten gospels? Does the Woman in the Well count?

Thanks!

-=|Mgkwho

 

[japhy]

My college just started something new yesterday- they read the Woman in the Well in three parts, with the priest as Jesus. What church teaching says this can not be so, and what teaching says a priest has to play the part of Jesus?

The Roman Missal only provides this option for two Gospels: the one on Palm Sunday and the one on Good Friday. That is all. I don’t think the Bishop can grant permission for that sort of dialog-gospel, but then, I wouldn’t be surprised if the priest did it without even asking permission.

In all other cases, the General Instruction for the Roman Missal makes it clear that the Gospel is to be sung or read by only an ordained minister: a deacon, priest, or bishop.

 

[agapewolf]

Depends on what is considered “youth.” Seeing as how the vatican has approved and encouraged youth massses, I think it is a fair debatable question considering that in the Lectionary of Masses for children:

Introduction, p 23:

Plays within the Liturgy of the Word:

Mass is not an historical reenactment of the events of salvation history and care shold be taken not to give the impression that the liturgy of the word is a play. This is not to say that dramatic elements may not be used, e.g., the readings may at times be divided into parts distributed among the children; …**

I’m sure there will be an arguement now that youth are not considered children in this case, but again the fact that there is such a thing as a youth mass could suggest that there would be elements such as this which would be appropriate.

I’m not arguing that it would be effective, just possibly allowed.

 

[Mgkwho]

Can you quote the GIRM please? I don’t have access to one.

Also, my friend involved in ministry claims there is no statement in the Lectionary that says an ordained minister has to read the part of Jesus.

I have the Canon, and it seems to me not explicitly clear because it acknowledges that sometimes it is okay to divide the Gospels into parts.

Where does it say Gospels can not be divided into parts? Can you include the text please? Where does it say an ordained minister has to read the part of Jesus. Can you include the text please?

Thank you!

 

[benedictgal]

Can you quote the GIRM please? I don’t have access to one.

Also, my friend involved in ministry claims there is no statement in the Lectionary that says an ordained minister has to read the part of Jesus.

I have the Canon, and it seems to me not explicitly clear because it acknowledges that sometimes it is okay to divide the Gospels into parts.

Where does it say Gospels can not be divided into parts? Can you include the text please? Where does it say an ordained minister has to read the part of Jesus. Can you include the text please?

Thank you!

But, it should only be divided into parts on Palm Sunday and Good Friday when the Passion is proclaimed. This is what Paschale Solemnitatis, the Circular Letter released by the Congregation for Divine Worship that governs the Holy Week liturgies, says:

1. The passion narrative occupies a special place. It should be sung or read in the traditional way, that is, by three persons who take the part of Christ, the narrator, and the people. The passion is proclaimed by deacons or priests, or by lay readers. In the latter case, the part of the Christ should be reserved to the priest.

The proclamation of the passion should be without candles and incense; the greeting and the sings of the cross are omitted; and only a deacon asks for the blessing, as he does before the Gospel. [37] For the spiritual good of the faithful, the passion should be proclaimed in its entirety, and the readings that proceed it should not be omitted.

1. After the passion has been proclaimed, a homily is to be given.

As far as who can read the Gospel, this is what Redemptionis Sacramentum says:

[63.] Within the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy, ***the reading of the Gospel, which is “the high point of the Liturgy of the Word”,139 is reserved by the Church’s tradition to an ordained minister.140 ***Thus it is not permitted for a layperson, even a religious, to proclaim the Gospel reading in the celebration of Holy Mass, nor in other cases in which the norms do not explicitly permit it.141

So, what was portrayed in the OP was completely wrong and should not have been done.

 

[Mgkwho]

You only talked about the Passion! It doesn’t limit “parts” to the Passion in what you quoted! Everything people have quoted only pertains to Holy Week!

Sorry- I’m just a little frustrated. My roommate keeps telling me the GIRM nor the Lectionary limits the Gospel outside of Holy Week.

He also told me his Dad, a non Catholic, receives the Eucharist even though he knows he is not supposed to. Because he respects his Dad’s belief, and that his Dad believes it, he is okay with it.

What to do!?