Masses being cancelled

[Herculees]

Actually a Private Mass is a Mass with NO congregation!
A priest on his day off might celebrate a Mass for himself and no-one else.
Masses with other’s beside a priest is NOT private!

 

[Lea101]

You already know what the Bishop meant, so what’s your point? Semantics?

 

[Annie]

The reason I joined this forum is to have a deeper understand of to what extent the personal resposibility in living the Faith depends on me and in no way do I recommend to others what I am willing to do myself.

Thos would fall under moral theology, so a good manual of MT might help you.

Overall, when it comes to the obligation to attend Mass, the obligation is lifted if attending Mass would pose serious difficulties, so there are the obvious barriers, such as being sick or caring for someone who needs care and is unable to attend (baby, elderly relative). However, if you were traveling to Mass and encountered a person in serious and immediate need of help, then stop and help the person (this actually happened to someone I know who stopped to help someone who had been injured in an accident).

Even bringing in your crops if delaying would ruin the crop, long (1 hour+) distance to travel, dangerous travel conditions and things like this lift the obligation.

I guess if this is happening in Singapore, it is also happening in China itself.

 

[RepentantPublican]

Wow! Thank you! That’s an eye opener. I did attend a talk on MT before but it was just one occasion and the topic is about the extent of personal sacrifices.

Yes, I dont have much knowledge about this. In a way, these situations also reveal the things I dont know about the Faith and I am using this opportunity to better prepare myself and my family.

Thanks and God bless Annie! Now I need to find some resources on MT and if you can recommend a good one, it will be more than welcome.

 

[poche]

If the masses are cancelled then the obligation of Sunday attendance is cancelled also for the people of that community.

 

[Phemie]

You obviously don’t live in a small community.

People here show up at weddings and funerals all the time. In many parishes a wedding or funeral Mass replaces the regular daily Mass so would be attended by the regular daily Mass attendees. People I hadn’t invited showed up at my wedding even though it was celebrated within a Liturgy of the Word, but it was celebrated at the time when Mass was normally celebrated.

 

[TMC]

Were all Masses cancelled during the Black Death?

The Black Death was hundreds of years before Germ Theory. Maybe if they had taken these kinds of precautions, we wouldn’t call it the “Black Death” now.

There is nothing wrong, and many things right, with the Church taking practical measures to guard the health of the faithful.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t recall anyone showing up to someone’s funeral or wedding just because there’s a mass going on anyways. It seems rude.

I’ve attended all or part of strangers’ funerals because I needed to pray in the church or receive Communion at a Mass and when I got there some funeral was going on instead of what I expected to be happening, so I just attended, prayed, received Communion if a Mass was happening, did my thing. As long as you don’t sit up in the front in the rows generally reserved for the family, nobody minds your being there; they might even assume you knew the deceased in some way but didn’t know their family well enough to socialize. It’s pretty normal for strangers to show up at funerals. Some retired people even regularly attend them and pray for the deceased as a type of ministry.

 

[Annie]

This seems an over reaction.

People who get this virus can be contagious for 2 weeks before showing symptoms, so staying home when sick will not stop the spread.

We in the US are used to having a lot of access to Mass, but at many times and places, this is not the case. Many were unable to attend Mass during the French Revolution and during the reign of Elizabeth I, as well as many other instances.

In addition, there are still many areas of the world where a parish is enormous and contains difficult terrain. We recently had a priest visit from Mexico and he travels around to celebrate Mass in his parish so that his parishioners will be able to attend Mass once or twice a year.

 

[Annie]

The manual of moral theology I have is out of print, but perhaps Father @edward_george1 will know of a good one.

Lots of good stuff in the Summa Theologiae by St Thomas Aquinas.

 

[Lea101]

You obviously don’t live in a small community.

People here show up at weddings and funerals all the time. In many parishes a wedding or funeral Mass replaces the regular daily Mass so would be attended by the regular daily Mass attendees. People I hadn’t invited showed up at my wedding even though it was celebrated within a Liturgy of the Word, but it was celebrated at the time when Mass was normally celebrated.

Ah I see. These events are usually celebrated separately from the liturgy (weekday mornings or Saturday mornings for weddings) here.

I can understand one or two slipping into mass for a funeral but in this context, I am imagining many Catholics attending for Mass during a private event. That would be rude, at least in where I’m from.

 

[Phemie]

Phemie:

You obviously don’t live in a small community.

People here show up at weddings and funerals all the time. In many parishes a wedding or funeral Mass replaces the regular daily Mass so would be attended by the regular daily Mass attendees. People I hadn’t invited showed up at my wedding even though it was celebrated within a Liturgy of the Word, but it was celebrated at the time when Mass was normally celebrated.

Ah I see. These events are usually celebrated separately from the liturgy (weekday mornings or Saturday mornings for weddings) here.

I can understand one or two slipping into mass for a funeral but in this context, I am imagining many Catholics attending for Mass during a private event. That would be rude, at least in where I’m from.

Reading the Bishop’s letter I see that he states that normally only those invited to weddings and funerals can attend. That must be cultural because I’ve always been taught that the Church‘s liturgies are public events.

Even a priest’s private Mass is public if he’s celebrating in a public space. We stayed at a seminary while taking courses at university. One of the priests celebrated a private Mass every morning at 7 in one of the chapels. He welcomed anyone who chose to attend.

 

[Petergee]

Epidemics in the European Middle Ages, and even later, were different in that people had no clear idea of how contamination occurred. Now we know better

They didn’t know exactly HOW they spread (and btw the experts still aren’t sure whether Covid-19 spreads by contact and/or by aerosol) but they very very much aware that they spread by being near people who had the disease or had been near others who had it. The European medievals INVENTED quarantine.

 

[Petergee]

I can understand one or two slipping into mass for a funeral but in this context, I am imagining many Catholics attending for Mass during a private event. That would be rude, at least in where I’m from.

ALL weddings and funerals in any Catholic church are by definition public liturgies and ANYONE is free to attend them. If some people think it’s “rude”, that’s their problem. Gee, the whole point of a wedding is that you swear your vows in front of the whole community. Not just a select few.

 

[OddBird]

Quarantine predates the Middle Ages, actually. Just read what the Old Testament recommends about lepers.

Quite close to where I live, during a black death epidemic in 1348, Jews were tortured until they (falsely) confessed to poisoning the water wells. This is how people thought the disease spread, not by contact.

 

[Lea101]

Even a priest’s private Mass is public if he’s celebrating in a public space. We stayed at a seminary while taking courses at university. One of the priests celebrated a private Mass every morning at 7 in one of the chapels. He welcomed anyone who chose to attend.

If there’s one or two random people I’m sure nobody would mind. Coronavirus or not. These things have to be said though, else a large crowd of strangers will turn up.

It’s really not a norm to show up to someone’s wedding like that, so I’m struggling to understand the concept.

ALL weddings and funerals in any Catholic church are by definition public liturgies and ANYONE is free to attend them. If some people think it’s “rude”, that’s their problem.

There are practical issues with allowing large groups of uninvited people in. I’m struggling to understand why someone would go for a stranger’s wedding on a Saturday/weekday morning in the first place.

And knowing Singaporeans, if you tell them that there is a Mass going on during this period, tons will definitely swarm in and demand the Eucharist. Defeating the whole point anyway. I don’t see what’s wrong with asking for invited guests only. I can’t imagine anyone turning away someone at the door, but in this context I wouldn’t be surprised because they would probably have to have temperature taking and travel declarations etc.

Gee, the whole point of a wedding is that you swear your vows in front of the whole community. Not just a select few.

A select few is all you need for a wedding. Isn’t it silly to judge a couple if they want a small private ceremony or is that not a thing in Western areas?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Were all Masses cancelled during the Black Death? or any previous epidemic? This seems an over reaction. Why not just tell the faithful that they are dispensed from the Sunday obligation if they are sick, or have just returned from China, or are fearful of catching disease because of frailty or depressed immune system etc.? Don’t cancel Masses.

We understand a little more about how disease is spread, and what viruses even are, than people understood back in those days.

I think the cancellation of public Masses in those areas where there is a very real concern about the coronavirus, is just common sense. Priests can still celebrate private Masses in their living quarters (or similar non-public locations), and the graces of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass will still descend upon the Church. The faithful do not have to receive communion each and every Sunday — that’s a 20th- and 21st-century concept.

 

[dochawk]

In many parishes a wedding or funeral Mass replaces the regular daily Mass so would be attended by the regular daily Mass attendees.

US byzantine practice tends to prefer, as with other sacraments, Crowning (matrimony) at a regular liturgy. We most often use the Saturday 4pm, but sometimes Sunday morning. Other times can be scheduled, but tend not to be.

 

[Petergee]

It’s really not a norm to show up to someone’s wedding like that, so I’m struggling to understand the concept.
…
I’m struggling to understand why someone would go for a stranger’s wedding on a Saturday/weekday morning in the first place.

I don’t see what’s wrong with asking for invited guests only.

A select few is all you need for a wedding. Isn’t it silly to judge a couple if they want a small private ceremony or is that not a thing in Western areas?

You only NEED a few (actually a minimum of only 2, apart from the bride, the groom and the priest/deacon). That doesn’t mean others aren’t welcome.

I have been to several Catholic wedding and funeral Masses where I didn’t know the people involved. Nobody seemed to think there was anything wrong with that. Who are you to dictate that “it’s really not a norm”?

 

[Lea101]

Who are you to dictate that “it’s really not a norm”?

I am talking about the norm from the culture I grew up in. Calm down.