Masses being cancelled

[Lea101]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that there’s a wedding in the first place?

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Petergee:

HomeschoolDad:

weddings are almost always invitation-only, and you are expected to be dressed a certain way (at least in some social circles), attend the reception, and bring a gift.

In Australia at least it has always been the custom (maybe fading a bit recently) that when a parishioner gets married, many parishioners attend the wedding, in addition to any who have been invited to the reception. There are several women in my parish who have seldom missed the wedding of a parishioner.

It was certainly like that where I grew up. You sat at the back or in the choir loft to get a good view.

I’ve only attended one wedding in this parish in my 23 years here so I’m not sure if the same thing applies. I know it does for funerals. Mass is Mass and regular daily Mass attendees will attend a funeral if Fr. is only going to celebrate that one Mass on that day.

You know, come to think of it, I think I have seen this before — people coming to weddings, sitting in the very back, not because it’s a wedding necessarily, but to attend Mass. It’s been 45+ years since I first stepped into “The Catholic Zone” and I’ve seen a lot. Or maybe I’m conflating that with funeral Masses. I don’t know. Point is, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is more than just “going to church” — it is the perpetual unbloody sacrifice of Calvary. On the other hand, non-Catholic weddings are social events, and only social events. True, where two baptized Christians marry, a sacrament is confected, but there is no Mass. (Please note that I refer to those Christian communions that do not have apostolic orders. Orthodox are another thing entirely.)

 

[Phemie]

Out of curiosity, how do you know that there’s a wedding in the first place?

Because a Catholic wedding is a public event it’s usually announced in the bulletin. Back home they still publish banns so when the banns are published for the last time, the time of the wedding is announced. At least it is where I grew up. Not so much in my present parish where banns are not published but it’s a small town so folks know.

 

[Phemie]

Petergee:

Petergee:

HomeschoolDad:

weddings are almost always invitation-only, and you are expected to be dressed a certain way (at least in some social circles), attend the reception, and bring a gift.

In Australia at least it has always been the custom (maybe fading a bit recently) that when a parishioner gets married, many parishioners attend the wedding, in addition to any who have been invited to the reception. There are several women in my parish who have seldom missed the wedding of a parishioner.

It was certainly like that where I grew up. You sat at the back or in the choir loft to get a good view.

I’ve only attended one wedding in this parish in my 23 years here so I’m not sure if the same thing applies. I know it does for funerals. Mass is Mass and regular daily Mass attendees will attend a funeral if Fr. is only going to celebrate that one Mass on that day.

You know, come to think of it, I think I have seen this before — people coming to weddings, sitting in the very back, not because it’s a wedding necessarily, but to attend Mass. It’s been 45+ years since I first stepped into “The Catholic Zone” and I’ve seen a lot. Or maybe I’m conflating that with funeral Masses. I don’t know. Point is, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is more than just “going to church” — it is the perpetual unbloody sacrifice of Calvary. On the other hand, non-Catholic weddings are social events, and only social events. True, where two baptized Christians marry, a sacrament is confected, but there is no Mass. (Please note that I refer to those Christian communions that do not have apostolic orders. Orthodox are another thing entirely.)

Mine was a mixed-marriage, so, no Mass. But it took place at 7 p.m. on Friday at the time daily Mass was normally celebrated. Although it was clearly indicated in the bulletin that my wedding would not be during a Mass, there were still lots of people who’d watched me grow up who were there for the event.

 

[Lea101]

Because a Catholic wedding is a public event it’s usually announced in the bulletin

Ah I see. We don’t do that here. You would have to be in Church or be a stalker to know that a wedding is going to take place, since it is usually held separately from the regular Masses.

We also don’t have much of a unified community in each parish. Everyone minds their business, Asian style. Lol

 

[dochawk]

At least among some Eastern churches, there is a preference to hold weddings at the regular liturgy.

 

[tafan2]

This is not uncommon in Latin rite parishes in many places. More than once I have gone to a regular daily mass in Mexico and a wedding was performed as part of the mass. My hometown’s parish went back to having most weddings during the Saturday vigil mass several years ago.

 

[billcu1]

Exactly I have been looking to see, how to you partake in a Mass held privately? There is no host to take. At least not for the parishioner, in my case. My Parish has began private Mass as ordered by the Bishop. I can’t find any answers in paragraphs of the GIRM I can find. I also want to pray for an indulgence. IDK

 

[TC3033]

a wedding is a social event.

No, not it’s not.

You have to know the person (or their family) and you have to be invited

Again, no you don’t. Do you think that we have a velvet rope and doormen watching the doors and checking IDs and RSVPs to get in the church?

The normal reason only invitees would attend a non-Catholic wedding is becuase they’re the ones who know about it. The norm, we don’t go to church at random times on Saturday so it would be strange to just show up at a wedding of people you don’t know.

To be fair, I was invited to a Catholic Baptism and my wife’s family thought it was the weirdest thing that after Mass was done we had to wait (attend) a wedding for people we didn’t know before our niece’s baptism.

non-Catholic weddings are social events, and only social events.

Wow…just…wow.

 

[Gorgias]

HomeschoolDad:

a wedding is a social event.

No, not it’s not.

Weddings are both events in the life of a parish community, and social events for friends and family. Fair enough?

You have to know the person (or their family) and you have to be invited

Again, no you don’t. Do you think that we have a velvet rope and doormen watching the doors and checking IDs and RSVPs to get in the church?
[/quote]
Well, to be fair, you generally wouldn’t know the date/time/location details unless you were being invited, right?

non-Catholic weddings are social events, and only social events.

Wow…just…wow.

I’d agree that, since non-Catholic Christian marriages are sacramental, they also are more than “only social events”. YMMV.

 

[TC3033]

Weddings are both events in the life of a parish community, and social events for friends and family. Fair enough?

Sure, that’s fair. I think that we’re on the same page TBH.

Well, to be fair, you generally wouldn’t know the date/time/location details unless you were being invited, right?

Sure, it’s the same thing for the majority of Catholic weddings too. It’s called a “Catholic Gap” for a reason.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Petergee:

non-Catholic weddings are social events, and only social events.

Wow…just…wow.

OK, then, what else are they besides social events?

Unless it is a Catholic or Orthodox wedding, it is not the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass/Divine Liturgy. There might be some kind of communion rite, but I don’t believe that’s common — I saw this once at a Methodist wedding (only bride and groom communed) and I was very inspired by it, Methodists have some remnants of Catholicism in their theology and practice, and this is one of them. Aside from this, is a non-Catholic wedding even regarded as a “church service”? And keep in mind that many non-Catholic weddings are not celebrated in churches, and sometimes not even by clergy.

HomeschoolDad:

You have to know the person (or their family) and you have to be invited

Again, no you don’t. Do you think that we have a velvet rope and doormen watching the doors and checking IDs and RSVPs to get in the church?

This may be a cultural thing. The way I was raised (in a non-Catholic environment), you either got an invitation in the mail, or it was an “open invitation” thing. I know this sounds crass, but some sort of gift was expected. There was a concept of “crashing a wedding” — they even made a comedy movie about it — and how can you “crash” a wedding if anyone and everyone can just show up?

Gorgias:

Well, to be fair, you generally wouldn’t know the date/time/location details unless you were being invited, right?

Sure, it’s the same thing for the majority of Catholic weddings too. It’s called a “Catholic Gap” for a reason.

I had to Google this. This is the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone having a problem with there being a time gap between the end of the wedding ceremony and the reception. It’s a matter of logistics. In communal Catholic cultures (e.g., Poland, where I married), the “wedding” pretty much lasts all day and that is all anyone plans on doing that day. (They also have this cultural expectation in Poland that the reception must last until the final guest leaves, which can be near daybreak, and that bride and groom cannot leave the reception until that time. That happened with us.)

 

[TMC]

This is the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone having a problem with there being a time gap between the end of the wedding ceremony and the reception.

I HATE the time gap, especially when there is nothing for guests to do between (especially out of towners). I did not realize it is supposedly worse for Catholics. What I have seen is couples spending an hour (or more) on pictures, sometimes changing clothes, and having their guests sit in a hall somewhere waiting for the reception to begin. At one of my brother-in-laws’ wedding it was probably close to 3 hours, while the mother of the bride when through three different outfits for pictures. I don’t care if the ceremony plus reception takes all day, but don’t leave me hanging without food and drink.

 

[Phemie]

HomeschoolDad:

This is the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone having a problem with there being a time gap between the end of the wedding ceremony and the reception.

I HATE the time gap, especially when there is nothing for guests to do between (especially out of towners). I did not realize it is supposedly worse for Catholics. What I have seen is couples spending an hour (or more) on pictures, sometimes changing clothes, and having their guests sit in a hall somewhere waiting for the reception to begin. At one of my brother-in-laws’ wedding it was probably close to 3 hours, while the mother of the bride when through three different outfits for pictures. I don’t care if the ceremony plus reception takes all day, but don’t leave me hanging without food and drink.

We got married at 7 p.m., a common time back then, Reception was immediately after but we took a detour to see my aunt who was in the hospital recovering from a heart attack before we joined our guests. She had fretted about not seeing me in my wedding dress. Bar was open In case anyone got thirsty.

 

[JulianN]

OK, then, what else are they besides social events?

Among other things, they are the creation of a sacramental union.

 

[TC3033]

OK, then, what else are they besides social events?

They’re weddings. Two people exchanging vows to each other in the sacrament of marriage.

There was a concept of “crashing a wedding” — they even made a comedy movie about it — and how can you “crash” a wedding if anyone and everyone can just show up?

OK…Crashing a wedding isn’t about showing up to the ceremony, but showing up uninvited to the reception. When you were married, were any an all Catholics invited to the reception? I’m going to guess no. “Crashing a Wedding” is sneaking into a reception un-invited and partying for free.

This is the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone having a problem with there being a time gap between the end of the wedding ceremony and the reception.

Really…it’s pretty common here.

It’s a matter of logistics

Well ya, but not many couples are going to want to start their reception at 2:30-3:00 because they had to be out of the church by 2:30 to allow for clean-up before 4:15 Mass, so thus the gap. We usually went to someone’s house or sat at a bar for an hour or so…

 

[halogirl]

Thank you so much xx

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

OK, then, what else are they besides social events?

Among other things, they are the creation of a sacramental union.

HomeschoolDad:

OK, then, what else are they besides social events?

They’re weddings. Two people exchanging vows to each other in the sacrament of marriage.

This much is just a given. Perhaps I’m not getting my idea across appropriately, which I’m sure is entirely “on me”. A Catholic wedding is usually part of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. That is at the core of a faithful Catholic’s existence. Protestants and others normally don’t think in terms of “having been to church”. It’s just a wedding, and to them, that’s all it is. It’s more of a social event to them, than it is anything else. Even people who are not normally practitioners of any particular religion, very often want a “church wedding”, and they find some denomination of minister to officiate. Many people only perceive themselves as “needing” religious ministry for weddings and funerals, and the rest of the time, religion is an afterthought. This said, there are also many people of all faiths who draw great spiritual comfort and inspiration from their religion, whatever religion it might be, and I’m sure those people regard marriage as a religious vocation.

I’m not one to “mute”, and I’m not going to do that, but this is the last I am going to say about this subject in this thread. I’ve said everything I can, in the best way I know how. I will just say that Our Lady of Fatima told us “many marriages are not good — they are not of God and do not please Our Lord”, and I have to think this referred both to Catholics and non-Catholics. She didn’t specify. Many marriages are good, many are not.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

There was a concept of “crashing a wedding” — they even made a comedy movie about it — and how can you “crash” a wedding if anyone and everyone can just show up?

OK…Crashing a wedding isn’t about showing up to the ceremony, but showing up uninvited to the reception. When you were married, were any an all Catholics invited to the reception? I’m going to guess no. “Crashing a Wedding” is sneaking into a reception un-invited and partying for free.

It was a small town in Poland, everyone pretty much knew everyone else, and it seemed like the whole town shut down for a day for our wedding. There were scads of people there I’d never met before, I didn’t know what connection, if any, they had to my wife’s family. Poles are very “chill” people about formalities of time (they wouldn’t know what in the world a “Catholic Gap” is!) — they are not clock-watchers, not hardly — and as long as they bring a nominal sum of money (another custom), anyone and their brother is liable to show up. It’s just kind of understood that the money envelope is to help pay for the reception — there is much food to be had, two whole meals and then some, and more liquor than you can shake a stick at. It’s just a big celebration, and nobody does it better than the Poles.

Through my American goggles, my head was spinning. Maybe it’s just how I was raised, but “just showing up” at a wedding, even if you were no more than a fellow parishioner, just wasn’t done. We weren’t snobby people, we were too poor to be snobby. Again, maybe it’s just how I was raised. I haven’t been to all that many weddings, but any I have ever been to, I was either expressly invited, or there was just an “open invitation” to a group of relatives and/or friends. I never said “oh, so-and-so is getting married, I think I’ll go”.

 

[Gorgias]

Unless it is a Catholic or Orthodox wedding, it is not the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass/Divine Liturgy.

No, but it can be a valid – and even sacramental! – wedding, even if outside the context of a nuptial Mass!

I had to Google this.

I’d never heard of a “Catholic gap”, either (and it wasn’t me whom you’re quoting!!!). I have heard of separate civil and religious ceremonies in the Soviet bloc, back in the day, however…

What I have seen is couples spending an hour (or more) on pictures, sometimes changing clothes, and having their guests sit in a hall somewhere waiting for the reception to begin.

Umm… “hors d’oeuvres” and “open or cash bars”, maybe?

At one of my brother-in-laws’ wedding it was probably close to 3 hours

Take it up with the couple. It’s not something that the Church mandates, suggests, or even recommends! After the nuptial Mass/service, the rest of the schedule is up to the couple themselves!