Masses for the dead

[McCartney]

I am quite conscious of giving masses for my dead friends and relatives. My list is generally 30 to 35 masses which I put on the collection plate. The names of my relatives gets published on the next week’s bulletin. I have struck up a friendship with our assistant priest. One day he saw me just before mass putting a list and some money into a mass envelope. He told me that he would say the masses for me to which I agreed and gave him the envelope.

He must have looked into the envelope which contained a considerable amount of money. As he came down the isle after mass he saw me leaving and ran after me to tell me that if I ever wanted masses said I should give it to him as the parish priest had a lot of masses. I thought that was fine as I didn’t care who said the masses as long as they were said.

The next Sunday I went to mass and the names were not in the bulletin and he said the mass for everyone’s intensions. I thought this was strange especially since he had over 30 masses of mine to say and should have been saying one off my list or if not then someone’s else’s mass. I met him after mass and asked him if he had finished me list of masses (which he could not have). He said he had not and then realised what I was implying. He then said that he says them on weekdays. He then added that he said one of my masses on the day. He said that he said it for everyone’s intentions and so that included my intentions for my family members. I was not happy with his answer as masses should be said announcing the person by name and the whole congregation should be praying for that soul.

I thought he would rectify it next Sunday but again he said the mass for everyone’s intentions. I am now feeling that I need to find a priest who will do the right thing.

 

[1ke]

You need to bring this to your pastor’s attention. What you describe here is prohibited.

 

[St_Francis]

I am always suspicious when someone suggests doing an end-run around authority. STM that the pastor and the assistant should be splitting the Masses requested by parishoiners?

 

[1ke]

I am always suspicious when someone suggests doing an end-run around authority. STM that the pastor and the assistant should be splitting the Masses requested by parishoiners?

You can give a mass to a specific priest, and he has a personal obligation to say the mass or give it to another if it cannot be said within one year.

You can also submit them to the parish, and then the pastor probably decides.

The pooling of mass intentions is prohibited.

Can. 945 §1. In accord with the approved practice of the Church, any priest celebrating or concelebrating is permitted to receive an offering to apply the Mass for a specific intention.

§2. It is recommended earnestly to priests that they celebrate Mass for the intention of the Christian faithful, especially the needy, even if they have not received an offering.

Can. 946 The Christian faithful who give an offering to apply the Mass for their intention contribute to the good of the Church and by that offering share its concern to support its ministers and works.

Can. 947 Any appearance of traYcking or trading is to be excluded entirely from the offering for Masses.

Can. 948 Separate Masses are to be applied for the intentions of those for whom a single offering, although small, has been given and accepted.

Can. 949 A person obliged to celebrate and apply Mass for the intention of those who gave an offering is bound by the obligation even if the offerings received have been lost through no fault of his own.

Can. 950 If a sum of money is offered for the application of Masses without an indication of the number of Masses to be celebrated, the number is to be computed on the basis of the offering established in the place where the donor resides, unless the intention of the donor must be presumed legitimately to have been different.

Can. 951 §1. A priest who celebrates several Masses on the same day can apply each to the intention for which the offering was given, but subject to the rule that, except on Christmas, he is to keep the offering for only one Mass and transfer the others to the purposes prescribed by the ordinary, while allowing for some recompense by reason of an extrinsic title.

§2. A priest who concelebrates a second Mass on the same day cannot accept an offering for it under any title.

Can. 952 §1. It is for the provincial council or a meeting of the bishops of the province to define by decree for the entire province the offering to be given for the celebration and application of Mass, and a priest is not permitted to seek a larger sum. Nevertheless, he is permitted to accept for the application of a Mass a voluntary offering which is larger or even smaller than the one defined.

§2. Where there is no such decree, the custom in force in the diocese is to be observed.

§3. Members of all religious institutes must also observe the same decree or local custom mentioned in §§1 and 2.

Can. 953 No one is permitted to accept more offerings for Masses to be applied by himself than he can satisfy within a year.

 

[YoungApologist3]

You can give a mass to a specific priest, and he has a personal obligation to say the mass or give it to another if it cannot be said within one year.

You can also submit them to the parish, and then the pastor probably decides.

The pooling of mass intentions is prohibited.

Can. 945 §1. In accord with the approved practice of the Church, any priest celebrating or concelebrating is permitted to receive an offering to apply the Mass for a specific intention.

§2. It is recommended earnestly to priests that they celebrate Mass for the intention of the Christian faithful, especially the needy, even if they have not received an offering.

Can. 946 The Christian faithful who give an offering to apply the Mass for their intention contribute to the good of the Church and by that offering share its concern to support its ministers and works.

Can. 947 Any appearance of traYcking or trading is to be excluded entirely from the offering for Masses.

Can. 948 Separate Masses are to be applied for the intentions of those for whom a single offering, although small, has been given and accepted.

Can. 949 A person obliged to celebrate and apply Mass for the intention of those who gave an offering is bound by the obligation even if the offerings received have been lost through no fault of his own.

Can. 950 If a sum of money is offered for the application of Masses without an indication of the number of Masses to be celebrated, the number is to be computed on the basis of the offering established in the place where the donor resides, unless the intention of the donor must be presumed legitimately to have been different.

Can. 951 §1. A priest who celebrates several Masses on the same day can apply each to the intention for which the offering was given, but subject to the rule that, except on Christmas, he is to keep the offering for only one Mass and transfer the others to the purposes prescribed by the ordinary, while allowing for some recompense by reason of an extrinsic title.

§2. A priest who concelebrates a second Mass on the same day cannot accept an offering for it under any title.

Can. 952 §1. It is for the provincial council or a meeting of the bishops of the province to define by decree for the entire province the offering to be given for the celebration and application of Mass, and a priest is not permitted to seek a larger sum. Nevertheless, he is permitted to accept for the application of a Mass a voluntary offering which is larger or even smaller than the one defined.

§2. Where there is no such decree, the custom in force in the diocese is to be observed.

§3. Members of all religious institutes must also observe the same decree or local custom mentioned in §§1 and 2.

Can. 953 No one is permitted to accept more offerings for Masses to be applied by himself than he can satisfy within a year.

I’ve read these canons before, and perhaps this needs its own thread, but I don’t quite understand what’s going on. Who gets the money? The priest? Or his parish or religious community? If the priest, how is this not simony?

 

[1ke]

Who gets the money? The priest? Or his parish or religious community?

If it is a secular priest (i.e. diocesan priest) then the priest retains the offering per the canons outlined above. When he says more than one mass in a day he retains one offering and then the other offerings go wherever the bishop has designated (in our diocese they go to the retired priest’s pension fund).

For an order priest, the offering goes wherever the rule of their order dictates.

If the priest, how is this not simony?

Please explain.

 

[YoungApologist3]

If it is a secular priest (i.e. diocesan priest) then the priest retains the offering per the canons outlined above. When he says more than one mass in a day he retains one offering and then the other offerings go wherever the bishop has designated (in our diocese they go to the retired priest’s pension fund).

For an order priest, the offering goes wherever the rule of their order dictates.

Please explain.

Since a secular priest receives the offering himself, this would be the selling of spiritual goods, yes? This is the CCC on simony:

2121 Simony is defined as the buying or selling of spiritual things.53 To Simon the magician, who wanted to buy the spiritual power he saw at work in the apostles, St. Peter responded: "Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God’s gift with money!"54 Peter thus held to the words of Jesus: "You received without pay, give without pay."55 It is impossible to appropriate to oneself spiritual goods and behave toward them as their owner or master, for they have their source in God. One can receive them only from him, without payment.

 

[1ke]

Since a secular priest receives the offering himself, this would be the selling of spiritual goods, yes?

No.

The priest is not selling anything.

 

[McCartney]

No.

The priest is not selling anything.

No. It is not selling. It is a small donation for an ‘honest day’s work’.

 

[giuseppeTO]

Traditionally, Sunday Masses are offered for the people of the parish and in general, I would be surprised to find a priest who is not booked weeks and months in advance with Mass intentions. To expect that a priest would be free to offer your intentions immediately would not be practical. You can certainly ask when your intention will be offered though.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

At my Cathedral, and the Diocese , we give the Diocese Admin an envelope with details of the intention, and money. She then looks up the diary and gives the day the Mass will be. These Masses are only weekday Masses, and can be shuffled around.
Whichever Priest, Bishop, Bishop Emeritus is celebrating Mass that day, does the intention.

Sometimes at the Saturday Vigil in the rural Churches we are asked if anyone has an intention for that Mass. Everyone is usually in agreement about what intention to offer that night.

 

[McCartney]

I have heard many masses being said for my relatives on Sundays.

On another note, here is an update. I went up for communion on Easter Sunday. At the communion rails this same priest said, “I have finished all your masses. I am now waiting for more”. The communion rails is a solemn place and I wasn’t expecting such a comment.

 

[1ke]

I have heard many masses being said for my relatives on Sundays.

On another note, here is an update. I went up for communion on Easter Sunday. At the communion rails this same priest said, “I have finished all your masses. I am now waiting for more”. The communion rails is a solemn place and I wasn’t expecting such a comment.

You should discuss this with the pastor before giving any additional masses to this priest. Explain what happened. Make it clear you want the masss said at a daily or Sunday mass, printed in the bulletin or announced at mass, and you are not authorizing that they be part of any collective intention.

There is something fishy here and that associate needs to be corrected. Don’t think you are the only one giving him masses, this is happening to others.

Also unless you are a HUGE parish with many masses daily and Sunday, 30 masses is a LOT to give to one parish or priest at a time. They may not accept more masses than they can say in a year, so ask how far out their masses go. You can contact your diocesan mission office and send masses to them to be given to mission priests or your retired priests of the diocese.

And approaching you at communion was completely inappropriate.

 

[McCartney]

I will not be giving masses to this priest EVER. I am thinking of giving masses to another priest in another parish.

There are generally between 3 to 10 masses published in the bulletin every week. There are three priests. One is very sickly so effectively there are two. They should be able to say about 700 masses per year. My 30 would only make a month’s worth for one priest to say.

Anyway, I think the best solution is to go somewhere else.

 

[Phemie]

There are several parishes I’ve attended in recent years where multiple intentions are listed for Sunday Mass. It’s my understanding that that is permissible provided the celebrant only take one stipend and that the people who requested the Masses are in agreement.

It should be said that the Pastor is bound to offer Mass for his parishioners once on Sundays and Holy Days so if, out of necessity, he celebrates three Masses, one must be for the parishioners and two can be for intentions for which he’s received a stipend. In our parish the offerings for masses are transferred to general revenue after the Mass has been celebrated. The priest doesn’t get to keep any per Bishop’s directive.

 

[John_Yurich_USA]

I am quite conscious of giving masses for my dead friends and relatives. My list is generally 30 to 35 masses which I put on the collection plate. The names of my relatives gets published on the next week’s bulletin. I have struck up a friendship with our assistant priest. One day he saw me just before mass putting a list and some money into a mass envelope. He told me that he would say the masses for me to which I agreed and gave him the envelope.

He must have looked into the envelope which contained a considerable amount of money. As he came down the isle after mass he saw me leaving and ran after me to tell me that if I ever wanted masses said I should give it to him as the parish priest had a lot of masses. I thought that was fine as I didn’t care who said the masses as long as they were said.

The next Sunday I went to mass and the names were not in the bulletin and he said the mass for everyone’s intensions. I thought this was strange especially since he had over 30 masses of mine to say and should have been saying one off my list or if not then someone’s else’s mass. I met him after mass and asked him if he had finished me list of masses (which he could not have). He said he had not and then realised what I was implying. He then said that he says them on weekdays. He then added that he said one of my masses on the day. He said that he said it for everyone’s intentions and so that included my intentions for my family members. I was not happy with his answer as masses should be said announcing the person by name and the whole congregation should be praying for that soul.

I thought he would rectify it next Sunday but again he said the mass for everyone’s intentions. I am now feeling that I need to find a priest who will do the right thing.

Since there is no Purgatory but only Heaven and Hell and salvation comes on this side of the grave only then it is useless to have Masses for the dead since the dead are either in Heaven or Hell. And I am a practicing Catholic stating that.

 

[McCartney]

Where were Abraham, Isaac and Moses before Christ opened the gates of heaven. Jesus said nothing unclean can enter heaven. He also said: “Blaspheming against the Father and Son can be forgiven but blaspheming against the Holy Spirit can neither be forgiven in this world or the next”. So there is forgiveness of sins in the next world in Purgatory.

 

[McCartney]

There are many theories. A bishop and this priest told me that there is no Hell.