Masterbation

[Sir_Knight]

thistle:

The three requirements being fulfilled is what I am talking about. Without all 3 applying no mortal sin is committed.

Grave matter
Full knowledge
Full consent

Masturbation is a grave matter so if a teenager knows this and does it anyway then they are committing a mortal sin.

What about if they give into urges which they haven’t fully learned how to master yet as a teenager? Then there wouldn’t be FULL consent, would there?

 

[thistle]

Sir Knight:

What about if they give into urges which they haven’t fully learned how to master yet as a teenager? Then there wouldn’t be FULL consent, would there?

Isn’t giving into urges synonymous with yielding to temptation?

 

[melbourne_guy]

I think its better to add that pornography is part of masturbating and everyone knows how sinful pornography is.

 

[Sir_Knight]

thistle:

Isn’t giving into urges synonymous with yielding to temptation?

That would be true for an adult who has mastered (or SHOULD have mastered) control over the urges but would the same apply to someone who hasn’t mastered them yet because they are fairly new to them?

 

[thistle]

Sir Knight:

That would be true for an adult who has mastered (or SHOULD have mastered) control over the urges but would the same apply to someone who hasn’t mastered them yet because they are fairly new to them?

Good question. My view is that if they know its wrong then they have to control the urge. Why would they not be able to control the urge when they know it would be a sin not too. How is it different from a 30, 40 or 50 year old giving in to the urge? If they can’t then its a sin and they should run along to Confession.
I don’t think teenagers have a grace period of a few years where they can knowingly sin with impunity.

 

[Sir_Knight]

thistle:

Why would they not be able to control the urge when they know it would be a sin not too. How is it different from a 30, 40 or 50 year old giving in to the urge?

Well, at least for males, the sex drive is much greater for a 17 year old than for a 30 year old and MUCH greater than a 50 year old. Plus, at 17 there is less maturity than at 30 or 40.

 

[Seatuck]

thistle:

Good question. My view is that if they know its wrong then they have to control the urge. Why would they not be able to control the urge when they know it would be a sin not too. How is it different from a 30, 40 or 50 year old giving in to the urge? If they can’t then its a sin and they should run along to Confession.
I don’t think teenagers have a grace period of a few years where they can knowingly sin with impunity.

Did you read the link I gave. It’s not as simple and cut and dry as you would like to make it.Of course teen agers or anyone else has a grace period where they can sin while learning to not do it. There are psychological factors that influence the sinfulness. Yes, masterbation is always and always will be objectively disordered. Teens and everyone else who masturbates should be going to confession with it. Priests are often able to sift out the culpability and work with people to help them learn to master it. Masterbation when habititual or compulsary may be considered a psychological disorder.A priest would have to ask the details to ascertain that. When you have a psychological disorder your ability to consent is damaged.

 

[thistle]

Seatuck:

Did you read the link I gave. It’s not as simple and cut and dry as you would like to make it.Of course teen agers or anyone else has a grace period where they can sin while learning to not do it. There are psychological factors that influence the sinfulness. Yes, masterbation is always and always will be objectively disordered. Teens and everyone else who masturbates should be going to confession with it. Priests are often able to sift out the culpability and work with people to help them learn to master it. Masterbation when habititual or compulsary may be considered a psychological disorder.A priest would have to ask the details to ascertain that. When you have a psychological disorder your ability to consent is damaged.

Sorry but I didn’t read the link. I did a print preview and its 22 pages. I don’t have time to read and digest 22 pages.
However re-reading the CCC on this there does seem to be possible mitigating factors albeit not a blanket catch-all just because someone is a teenager but I concede what you say is essentially correct.

CCC 2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

**To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability. **

 

[Seatuck]

Seatuck:

Did you read the link I gave. It’s not as simple and cut and dry as you would like to make it.Of course teen agers or anyone else has a grace period where they can sin while learning to not do it. There are psychological factors that influence the sinfulness. Yes, masterbation is always and always will be objectively disordered. Teens and everyone else who masturbates should be going to confession with it. Priests are often able to sift out the culpability and work with people to help them learn to master it. Masterbation when habititual or compulsary may be considered a psychological disorder.A priest would have to ask the details to ascertain that. When you have a psychological disorder your ability to consent is damaged.

I meant to say of course teenagers or anyone else do not have a grace period. Sorry about that. I just was pointing to the confessional for sorting out culpability. I do think it is wise to consider all masterbation a mortal sin that must be confessed and leave spiritual direction to priests in the confessional on this matter.

 

[6glargento]

i can say from personal experiance that the urge to masturbate can be equivilant to the urge to go to the bathroom. Sometimes you can’t just hold it in, it hurts. Most of the priests that i’ve talked to have said “don’t worry too much about it” or " just say an act of contrition"

I definently think that there is more moral accountability for a married person because if you are married you should do it with you’re wife.

 

[dylanschrader]

See also Persona Humana:

The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self (“ipsation”), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty.

This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church - in the course of a constant tradition - and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.”[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of “impurity,” “unchasteness” and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.

Sociological surveys are able to show the frequency of this disorder according to the places, populations or circumstances studied. In this way facts are discovered, but facts do not constitute a criterion for judging the moral value of human acts.[21] The frequency of the phenomenon in question is certainly to be linked with man’s innate weakness following original sin; but it is also to be linked with the loss of a sense of God, with the corruption of morals engendered by the commercialization of vice, with the unrestrained licentiousness of so many public entertainments and publications, as well as with the neglect of modesty, which is the guardian of chastity.

On the subject of masturbation modern psychology provides much valid and useful information for formulating a more equitable judgment on moral responsibility and for orienting pastoral action. Psychology helps one to see how the immaturity of adolescence (which can sometimes persist after that age), psychological imbalance or habit can influence behavior, diminishing the deliberate character of the act and bringing about a situation whereby subjectively there may not always be serious fault. But in general, the absence of serious responsibility must not be presumed; this would be to misunderstand people’s moral capacity.

In the pastoral ministry, in order to form an adequate judgment in concrete cases, the habitual behavior of people will be considered in its totality, not only with regard to the individual’s practice of charity and of justice but also with regard to the individual’s care in observing the particular precepts of chastity. In particular, one will have to examine whether the individual is using the necessary means, both natural and supernatural, which Christian asceticism from its long experience recommends for overcoming the passions and progressing in virtue.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

i can say from personal experiance that the urge to masturbate can be equivilant to the urge to go to the bathroom. Sometimes you can’t just hold it in, it hurts. Most of the priests that i’ve talked to have said “don’t worry too much about it” or " just say an act of contrition"

I definently think that there is more moral accountability for a married person because if you are married you should do it with you’re wife.

The first thing that comes to mind is…WHAT?:whacky:

I am not sure that I ever felt that the urge to masturbate was so bad that it hurt and I did not have the self control to “hold it.”

I have a hard time believing that you talked to a lot of priest that said to not worry about it or just say an act of contrition. Do you personally believe this or do you believe what the Catholic Church teaches about this.

Do me a favor and provide for me why you feel that there is more “moral accountability” if you are married versus if you are single. Masturbation is about turning sex inwards, towards self. That is not what sex is about, it is about giving to your spouse. Masturbating when you are single is taking from your future spouse. It is taking away from her, even if you do not know her. Your sexuality is a gift from God that is given to you for you to share with your future spouse, not yourself. As a single person you are to practice the virtues of chastity and purity.

 

[PennitentMan]

I can say from personal experiance that the urge to masturbate can be equivilant to the urge to go to the bathroom. Sometimes you can’t just hold it in, it hurts. Most of the priests that i’ve talked to have said “don’t worry too much about it” or " just say an act of contrition"

I have to add my voice to Mirror Mirror here.

Even though I have felt the phyiscal pain from not having release, it’s not like I couldn’t stop myself…I have always been able to control the urge…even though it’s been torture at times…

I too have spoken to many priests on this and all of them at least agree on one thing…that in most cases it would be a mortal sin…never once have they every given me advice that dismissed a grave matter like this before…How many priests said this to you?

I definently think that there is more moral accountability for a married person because if you are married you should do it with you’re wife.

Yeah, excuse me…more moral accountability? I’m getting tired of this stereotype of “if you can’t control your urges, then just get married” cr-a-p. There are times when you can’t be intimate with your wife…but you still get to kisss her, touch her, see her naked…let’s see you try it and then agree that there is more moral accountability to marreid men…Pfffft!

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I have to add my voice to Mirror Mirror here.

Scary, we are almost seeing eye to eye.

I too have spoken to many priests on this and all of them at least agree on one thing…that in most cases it would be a mortal sin…never once have they every given me advice that dismissed a grave matter like this before…

Thank you.

Yeah, excuse me…more moral accountability? I’m getting tired of this stereotype of “if you can’t control your urges, then just get married” cr-a-p. There are times when you can’t be intimate with your wife…but you still get to kisss her, touch her, see her naked…let’s see you try it and then agree that there is more moral accountability to marreid men…Pfffft!

I could not agree more. Mind you, I am not going through what you are PM (btw, you are still in my prayers, hope it is getting better), however, following NFP is not “easy” and if you are trying to avoid another child (for valid reasons) it is hard to see your wife naked and not be “excited” but then know that there is nothing that you can do. Sure, sure, sure, being married is so much easier, riiiiight!! God never said it would be easy, only that it would be worth it.

You made me laugh PM, good reply, especially the “Pfffft!”

 

[TerryPaul]

What about with your wife or husband over the phone when you have to be apart for very long periods of time?

I’ve heard different answers so I wonder which one is correct?

 

[jrgiancola]

If it is a sin, it’s not much of a sin. Jesus was not so concerned about this. He never mentioned it whatsoever. Jesus was more concerned about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting those in prison, caring for the sick, doing unto others what you would have others do unto you. “Love one another as I have loved you.” This is what Christianity is all about. Don’t get hung up on the little things… and for God’s sake, spell it right… mastUrbation…

 

[jrgiancola]

By the way, masturbation is not mentioned in the OT or NT.

If you are referring to the sin of Onan, God did not kill Onan for masturbating. He killed Onan for failing to follow the Levirate Law which demanded that he sire children for his deceased brother. God would never kill anyone for masturbating. Get real, man.

 

[TerryPaul]

Sorry for the spelling. I don’t talk about it so much less have the occasion to spell it.

When I mentioned your reply to my wife, I started to shiver like I had gone very cold all of a sudden. Like it was sign not to.

I’d love to know that it is not a sin but I still wonder. Being apart from my wife for so long, it seems all I can think about is sex! I’m not happy about that and it is consuming so much of my time.

I have been told that it is if you are by yourself but in marriage and in union with each other long distance l still wonder.

Anyone else?

God bless

 

[GrandeChartreus]

Sorry for the spelling. I don’t talk about it so much less have the occasion to spell it.

When I mentioned your reply to my wife, I started to shiver like I had gone very cold all of a sudden. Like it was sign not to.

I’d love to know that it is not a sin but I still wonder. Being apart from my wife for so long, it seems all I can think about is sex! I’m not happy about that and it is consuming so much of my time.

I have been told that it is if you are by yourself but in marriage and in union with each other long distance l still wonder.

Anyone else?

God bless

I understand what you are going through and I wanted to offer my support. I think it is normal that you are tempted. May i propose an article from Busted Halo. Probably some people will say this answer is short but it’s from a Jesuit priest … better then anyone of us I guess.

Is masturbation a mortal sin?

Richard G. Malloy, SJ Answers:

Mortal sin means “deadly” sin, the choice to so reject God’s love that the life of grace “dies” in a person. The meanings of masturbation range over a variety of acts and life situations. An overly “act” centered approach to sexual morality, in my humble opinion, fails to take into account the multiplicity of meanings and complexities of the human condition. Masturbation by a 13 year old boy is radically different from masturbation by a person who is refusing to have sexual relations with a spouse because of unresolved anger and conflicts. Overall, it is difficult to imagine someone using masturbation alone in such a manner that God is definitively rejected, with full consent of the will and a clear and total understanding of the implications of one’s choice (cf. CCC #1858).

The church teaches that masturbation is “gravely disordered” (CCC #2352) as are acts of lying, stealing, etc. In the same way, one can easily discriminate the difference between “stealing” a $1.00 from your mother’s purse when you are 10 years old and embezzling thousands on your job, or overcharging the government billions, so too we should judge the different levels and meanings of masturbation. In judging the moral responsibility surrounding masturbation, many conditions can “reduce to a minimum moral culpability” (CCC #2352).

Fr. Rick Malloy, S.J., is a Jesuit priest, fisherman and author. He is an Assistant Professor of Cultural Anthropology at Chestnut Hill College in Philadelphia, and serves as a Chaplain at the college.

bustedhalo.com/questionbox/is-masturbation-a-mortal-sin

Like they like to say : were are all not perfect but where all trying to get closer to God.

 

[OraLabora]

I think its better to add that pornography is part of masturbating and everyone knows how sinful pornography is.

False.

You can’t generalize like that. Not everyone uses pornography for masturbation.