Mastubation Question

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DailyBread said:
I second that mercy gate and follow up with the fact that people cannot use an arguement: the priest said it was okay so I am not guilty. The magisterium is not ruled by majority, but by the will of God acting through the hierarchy HE chose. Priests are human and I bet many of them tell people in confession this to justify their own actions. Not all priests make the best confessors sadly and we must find ones who are in line with the Church’s teachings. There is a right and wrong and to avoid this teaching by the church still makes you guilty (as opposed to others who are ignorant and mislead by others without any knowledge that masturbation could be a sin… so if you are reading this and wonder if it is, check all major Examination of Conscience booklets written by good confessors and all will list masturbation as a grave sin). Masturbation is not the Way of followers of the cross… sacrifice is and that is why only pleasure in the gift of self to one’s spouse is acceptable. Jesus said “The Father and I are ONE” not that they are seperate. The joy of their divine head is found in their complete selfless union, not by becoming seperate. The Mystery of the Trinity is the Mystery of Love and anything that is blasphemous to that mystery is not love… ie masturbation.
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It’s not talked about in the bible, so which is correct, the Church or the Bible? The bible does speak of sins of the flesh but it is not specific.
 
Dan_Brown_2 said:
It’s not talked about in the bible, so which is correct, the Church or the Bible? The bible does speak of sins of the flesh but it is not specific.
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I’d say the story of Onan could be applied here. As well as, the whole whoever has looked upon a woman with lust in his heart has already committed adultery with her.

Never mind the fact that the Church wrote the bible, the two cannot and do not contradict one another.
 
Dan_Brown_2 said:
It’s not talked about in the bible, so which is correct, the Church or the Bible? The bible does speak of sins of the flesh but it is not specific.
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The Bible speaks very much of purity – Romans, chapter 1 is a good place to start. Paul emphasizes continence, and marital chastity, and celibacy in I Corinthians. I direct you back to the Natural Law. The humanity of our sexuality demands a very high level of affirmation. We are not monkeys.

The Natural Law “reads” creation in light of divine Revelation. Perhaps you have not read some of the earlier posts on this thread which delineate the Scriptural roots and the theological thinking which lead to the Catholic position on this subject – which, by the way, was held by ALL Christians until about 25 minutes ago.

Although I am not up to date on what the Protestant denominations now teach, it would surprise me if most of them do not still maintain that the practice described by the OP is not morally problematic. The Bible doesn’t say “viewing pornography is a sin” but the Bible-only Evangelical Christians are on the forefront of combatting this moral evil. Your question, “which is correct, the Church or the Bible?” is not a question Bible-only Christians are asking about this. I would say that is a good indicator of what is correct.

Perhaps you jumped onto this thread late and did not read the whole thing?
 
The bible also does not specific deal with every imaginable sin… not possible, but teaches a way of discerning what is right and what is wrong summed up in the two commandments to love God fully and your neighbor as yourself. Genesis specifically says that we are the image of God based upon our compatability of the sexes to be united as one “Let us make make man in our image… male and female he made them.” The image of God, God’s invisible mystery of his image is that of the union of man and woman in self giving love… From the complete and selfless gift of Father to Son and Son to Father, the Holy Spirit pores out eternally. And the experience of God in giving of himself is so profound, it is JOY itself. This joy is not experienced apart. Hence man and woman are called to do the same… experience the joy of orgasm together in uniting in a way that makes visible the invisible mystery of God’s love within himself. To not do so otherwise would be to be blasphemous towards God’s dignity of being made know through his creation. Also, if you need NT stuff, Paul condemns illicit practices and licentiousness of the pagans. The Greeks were people who practiced all forms of this including masturbation and homosexuality. Discern this act, will it make you a more loving selfless gift to your wife and God or turn you more towards your own desires. Selfishness has no room in the life of the Christian. Hope that helps! I’ll pray for your continued guidance in the Lord. Keep searching :).
 
Dan_Brown_2 said:
It’s not talked about in the bible, so which is correct, the Church or the Bible? The bible does speak of sins of the flesh but it is not specific.
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In the Bible Jesus gave the authority to bind and loose to the Church; “Whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatsoever you loose on Earth shall have been loosed in heaven”. By this He gave His Church the authority to declare in His name what is sinful and what is not.

You aren’t Catholic are you?
 
salushonor said:
We, no ones saying it’s not beautiful (in the right context) all the CHURCH is saying is that it MUST be open to life, with NO unnatural sexual practices, in which case the married couple is called to live chastity as well to an extent, and having SOME self control. Any Unnatural act such as anal sex, etc even if married is NOT allowed.
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What if during a love session, the wife uses oral sex to clear old seed from her husband first, and then ends the love session with the conjucal act itself, for good seed. Both the couple and being open to procreation takes place within this love session. This love session, by the way takes place during the time of the month per natural family planning, which is the churchs way of birth control. If this couple are both over 50, should they still be having sex for pleasure, knowing that pregnancy is both less likely now and also dangerous for wife and possible child? When should the conjacal act be stopped, once a couple can nolonger concieve? Isn’t this pure pleasure seeking, with knowledge of no procreation?
 
50andesireswife said:
What if during a love session, the wife uses oral sex to clear old seed from her husband first, and then ends the love session with the conjucal act itself, for good seed. Both the couple and being open to procreation takes place within this love session. This love session, by the way takes place during the time of the month per natural family planning, which is the churchs way of birth control. If this couple are both over 50, should they still be having sex for pleasure, knowing that pregnancy is both less likely now and also dangerous for wife and possible child? When should the conjacal act be stopped, once a couple can nolonger concieve? Isn’t this pure pleasure seeking, with knowledge of no procreation?
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Each marital act must end with the husband inside his wife . Whether the couple is fertile or not. There is no reason to do as is suggested in the first line of this post anyway.
 
Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.
 
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