Mastubation Question

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I have a question that I think I know the answer too, but have been in serious denail about. I have not masturbated in almost 2 years. However, my wife will often masturbate me to relieve me of my sexual stress and to relax me. So, my question is…Is it OK for a wife to masturbate her husband or to give him oral sex that ends in ejaculation, when it is not foreplay leading up to intercourse. I think the answer is that it is a sin, but I can’t find it written anywhere. All I found is that the Church has no official position on oral sex. If you say it is a sin, please include a reference so I can be 100% sure. I am weak, so the only way I will stop the bahavior is if I know for a fact the Church says it is wrong.

Thanks,

Chris
 
i can’t provide you with a reference right now but the Church teaches that ejaculation MUST occur within the woman as would be expected if you were trying to have a baby. This is the only context for sexual pleasure.
 
Welcome to CAF Credno!. Any reason you and your wife can’t avoid any moral issues and and just engage in relations?
 
We do that also, but I guess I am alot “needier” than she is when it comes to satisfaction. I know it is something I need to work on, but I’m just wondering about the morality of it all. Also, we don’t have intercourse as much as we’d like because we don’t use artificial contraception, and aren’t ready for more children yet (we have 3 already) so we’re kinda hesitant, unless we’re certain it won’t result in pregnancy.

Chris
 
The good news: you have a very accommodating wife. The bad news: the Church will tell you what you are doing is immoral and you need to gain some self-discipline at times when you want intimacy, but need to avoid pregnancy and/or dw is not in the mood. Interestingly, your wife IS allowed to masturbate (herself or with your help) to orgasm if intercourse did not produce climax for her. Go figure…yet another advatage of being female (?) 😉
 
That’s what I thought, but is that clearly defined or written anywhere for reference that you know of?

Chris
 
Chris,

I completely understand this situation. My hubby and I have 3 kids too and for many reasons (mostly mental) we are hoping that this is the end of our childbearing.
Although I know WHY the church is against condoms (all forms of BC), we choose to use this method.

IMHO - I think its very self-giving of your wife to allow you to be satisified - and receive nothing (unless its a ‘you-do-me-then-I-do-you’ type thing) .
Sex is something that should be a beautiful/bonding time for the both of you… and aids in your love for each other. And with 3 kids floating around - we NEED this time together!

using masturbation or oral sex to prevent pregnancy vs condom’s…
Im gonna ponder this one (and pray about it)
 
That’s what I thought, but is that clearly defined or written anywhere for reference that you know of?

Chris
It is not exactly spelled out, i.e., marital masturbation is gravely disordered act and moral illicit. But the same principles that pertain to preserving the integrity of the conjugal act and the grave disorder of self-masturbation apply to mutual marital masturbation (albeit the husband and/or herself bringing the wife to climax in the context of the maritalact). Bottom line, marital masturbation fails to fulfill the 2 essentials aspects of the marital act – obviously the *procreative aspect *of the conjugal act, and not so obviously the *unitive aspect *(unitive not solely being emnotional or psychological). Here are some pertinent Catechism of the Catholic Church citations:

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.” (CCC)

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices. (CCC)

2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes. (CCC)

**2369 **“By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood.” (CCC)

**2370 **Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality. (CCC)
 
Paula,

I’m certainly not trying to judge you, but I feel that I am obligated to share this. I don’t believe that we have the right to pick and choose what teachings of the church to follow. You said you know WHY the Church says condems are wrong, but you choose to ignore it anyways. I know I make alot of mistakes too, so I’m not judging you. I stopped using artificial birth control when I could no longer deny the truth, that the Church founded by Jesus Christ himself, and the pillar and bulwark of the truth says that it is wrong. I just keep reminiding myself that these theologians are ALOT smarter than me, and they know what is best for my soul. I’d rather suffer and err on the side of safety and find out that they were wrong later than do what I think is right and find out that I was wrong later. That brings me back to my original post, trying to find out exactly what the church teaches on this subject. I’ll pray for you.

Chris
 
Chris,

I completely understand this situation. My hubby and I have 3 kids too and for many reasons (mostly mental) we are hoping that this is the end of our childbearing.
Although I know WHY the church is against condoms (all forms of BC), we choose to use this method.

IMHO - I think its very self-giving of your wife to allow you to be satisified - and receive nothing (unless its a ‘you-do-me-then-I-do-you’ type thing) .
Sex is something that should be a beautiful/bonding time for the both of you… and aids in your love for each other. And with 3 kids floating around - we NEED this time together!

using masturbation or oral sex to prevent pregnancy vs condom’s…
Im gonna ponder this one (and pray about it)
I hope that you and your husband are open to reconsidering your opinion and that your “method” is gravely disordered and morally illict. Orgasm apart from the conjugal act is always gravely disordered and entails a “disorder of the will” when freely chosen, regardless of the circumstances.

1755 A *morally good *act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting “in order to be seen by men”).

The **object of the choice can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety. There are some concrete acts - such as fornication - that it is always wrong to choose, because choosing them entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil. (CCC)

**1759 **“An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means. (CCC)
 
That’s what I thought, but is that clearly defined or written anywhere for reference that you know of?

Chris
Here is an excerpt from the SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH, which more specifically reiterates the unchanging teaching of the Church that "without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act. The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes "the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.“All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship.”
SACRED CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
PERSONA HUMANA
DECLARATION ON CERTAIN QUESTIONS
CONCERNING SEXUAL ETHICS
(excerpt)
The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self (“ipsation”), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty.
This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both **the Magisterium of the Church **- in the course of a constant tradition - and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.”[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of “impurity,” “unchasteness” and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html
 
i can’t provide you with a reference right now but the Church teaches that ejaculation MUST occur within the woman as would be expected if you were trying to have a baby. This is the only context for sexual pleasure.
AMEN. Also may want to consult a REAL priest, i.e. one who follows church teaching to the foot of the letter. My recomentdation? An Opus Dei one.
All sexual pleasure must be open to LIFE.
 
I hope that you and your husband are open to reconsidering your opinion and that your “method” is gravely disordered and morally illict. Orgasm apart from the conjugal act is always gravely disordered and entails a “disorder of the will” when freely chosen, regardless of the circumstances.
Sounds to me like the only morally acceptable outlet for sexual desire is trying to make a baby. Sorry, but to me sex is beautiful. It is a glue like substance that plays a major roll in a happy marriage. Men and women weren’t made by God to sit around and have nothing polite conversation except for the few days a month when babies are the likely result. But I digress.

So " Orgasm apart from the conjugal act is always gravely disordered. " I wonder if nocturnal emission, which I assume is the result of orgasm, is like wise gravely disordered? I wonder why God included them as part of human nature?
 
Sounds to me like the only morally acceptable outlet for sexual desire is trying to make a baby. Sorry, but to me sex is beautiful. It is a glue like substance that plays a major roll in a happy marriage. Men and women weren’t made by God to sit around and have nothing polite conversation except for the few days a month when babies are the likely result. But I digress.

So " Orgasm apart from the conjugal act is always gravely disordered. " I wonder if nocturnal emission, which I assume is the result of orgasm, is like wise gravely disordered? I wonder why God included them as part of human nature?
We, no ones saying it’s not beautiful (in the right context) all the CHURCH is saying is that it MUST be open to life, with NO unnatural sexual practices, in which case the married couple is called to live chastity as well to an extent, and having SOME self control. Any Unnatural act such as anal sex, etc even if married is NOT allowed.
 
Sounds to me like the only morally acceptable outlet for sexual desire is trying to make a baby. Sorry, but to me sex is beautiful. It is a glue like substance that plays a major roll in a happy marriage. Men and women weren’t made by God to sit around and have nothing polite conversation except for the few days a month when babies are the likely result. But I digress.

So " Orgasm apart from the conjugal act is always gravely disordered. " I wonder if nocturnal emission, which I assume is the result of orgasm, is like wise gravely disordered? I wonder why God included them as part of human nature?
Well, actually I asked a friend priest who is a prof. of MORAL theology at the Lateran Pontifical University in Rome, and faithful to the Magisterium: he says: "NO, there is no sin in night emissions. As long as the person was in a state of semi-sleep or sleep, nor CONSENTED: free will is NOT used when asleep.
 
Interestingly, your wife IS allowed to masturbate (herself or with your help) to orgasm if intercourse did not produce climax for her. Go figure…yet another advatage of being female (?) 😉
Where did you hear this?

Women cannot masturbate anymore than men and avoid committing mortal sin.
 
LeahInancsi,

It is also my understanding that a woman may achieve orgasm through oral stimulation or masturbation if it is part of the marital act. Here is one explanation:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=43106&highlight=masturbation

I’ve read similar explanations from other sources.

Autumn
Point taken. I think the point should be stressed is that the woman’s masturbation should occur within the confines of lovemaking. Not when she’s home alone one Saturday afternoon while hubby’s playing golf and the “mood” hits her. That would be wrong.

SALUSHONOR…who are you talking to?
 
I think the point of that thread does not permit a woman to use masturbation on herself say immediately after an act because that would still constitute a grave sin. It is talking still in the contex of her husband and her continuing intimacy until she reached climax, not her husband going off and her doing it to herself. It must be achieved during the process of a completed act and the couple helping each other, not by self masturbation. It’s the obligation of the husband to help his wife achieve the goods of the act… pleasure, bringing the couple closer, and openess to life… not for the wife to be left to achieve it on her own. Hope this clarifies things for people who were confused.
 
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