Masturbation and Addiction, the Female version

[tabsie3210]

Blah.

Y’know, there were some disadvantages to being born in 1977. One of them was the Kinsey report and the other was Dr. Spock, and the overall consensus that children are sexual beings from birth and that masturbation is acceptable and can’t hurt them.

I would say I’m probably an addict, even though I don’t want to be, because I grew up in a household that permitted masturbation, which I’d been doing since I was 3 or 4 until I hit about 29ish.

It’s something I’ve been struggling with, and the sad part is that I can go for months without it becoming an issue, and then BAM, I can’t eat or sleep properly and it’s plaguing me until I give in, which upsets me and I know I have to go to confession, but I’m trying not to be presumptious.

To the guy who wrote the original Masturbation and Addiction post - God bless you, my friend, because I know what it’s like to be in that “third stage” and I want to pull my hair out or hurt myself sometimes to get the urges to stop.

Except, does the fact that I’ve been doing it since I was 3 or 4 almost daily qualify as addicting? Or am I grasping at something as an excuse? I hate the thought that I’m dooming myself more and more despite my desire not to do anything evil, but at the same time my priest (when I went to weekly or bi-weekly confessions) seemed to think I was being overly-scrupulous about my actions. I can’t explain it any better than that.

How does one determin if one is truly addicted or not?

Blah again, I’m frustrated with myself.

 

[monsignor]

OK…I’m really confused. First of all is masturbation by male or female a sin ?
If so, why? What about a married couple who have grown children, are way past the “child-bearing” years, and either one party or the other simply has no interest in sex. Sin or no ??

 

[FightingFat]

OK…I’m really confused. First of all is masturbation by male or female a sin ?
If so, why? What about a married couple who have grown children, are way past the “child-bearing” years, and either one party or the other simply has no interest in sex. Sin or no ??

Sin. Always a sin.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

 

[TLM08]

Blah.

Y’know, there were some disadvantages to being born in 1977. One of them was the Kinsey report and the other was Dr. Spock, and the overall consensus that children are sexual beings from birth and that masturbation is acceptable and can’t hurt them.

I would say I’m probably an addict, even though I don’t want to be, because I grew up in a household that permitted masturbation, which I’d been doing since I was 3 or 4 until I hit about 29ish.

It’s something I’ve been struggling with, and the sad part is that I can go for months without it becoming an issue, and then BAM, I can’t eat or sleep properly and it’s plaguing me until I give in, which upsets me and I know I have to go to confession, but I’m trying not to be presumptious.

To the guy who wrote the original Masturbation and Addiction post - God bless you, my friend, because I know what it’s like to be in that “third stage” and I want to pull my hair out or hurt myself sometimes to get the urges to stop.

Except, does the fact that I’ve been doing it since I was 3 or 4 almost daily qualify as addicting? Or am I grasping at something as an excuse? I hate the thought that I’m dooming myself more and more despite my desire not to do anything evil, but at the same time my priest (when I went to weekly or bi-weekly confessions) seemed to think I was being overly-scrupulous about my actions. I can’t explain it any better than that.

How does one determin if one is truly addicted or not?

Blah again, I’m frustrated with myself.

With you… as well as millions of others (like me) who grew up in a hyper-sexualized society it is likely more of a highly ingrained habit. I like to reserve the word “addiction” for ingrained habits that are having life damaging consequences, like job loss… marital conflict, criminal activity, etc.

This thing really got it’s “grip” on me during my childhood years in an emotionally abusive alcoholic home environment. I discovered at an early age that the release was an effective “reset” button to calm my nerves.

It was probably one of the things that kept me from getting into drugs and abusing alcohol myself. Was I sinning? I don’t know. … I am still alive praise God.

 

[Biblioassistant]

Hmm, I feel for you. It got it’s claws into me when I was about 20, and it’s been a besetting sin. I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t do drugs and, after a terrible marriage I’ve been celibate for 20+ years.

Sigh.

For lent I resolved to fight masterbation and, so far, I have been successful. It really wasn’t all that pleasurable and only left me frustrated and lonely.

 

[monsignor]

All great responses…however the question is…“Why is it a sin”? Because some men said so years ago? Does God not want us to experience pleasure? Does He not wat us to be happy rather than frustrated ??

 

[JamesE24]

All great responses…however the question is…“Why is it a sin”? Because some men said so years ago? Does God not want us to experience pleasure? Does He not wat us to be happy rather than frustrated ??

Nothing that the Church teaches is simply an arbitrary rule, made for no other reason than, “We said so, that’s why!” Does a cop pull you over for speeding because he doesn’t want you to experience the pleasure of speeding? No, it’s because it endangers both your life and the lives of others.

Sex unites two people, in a total and complete way. It is both life-giving, and love-giving. The reason pornography and masturbation are sins is because they are both life-less, and love-less.

Masturbation is a sin because it replaces the true end of the sexual act, procreation, with another, secondary end, pleasure. And once pleasure is made the ultimate end of sex, there is no logical reason why any act, no matter how depraved, can be forbidden. “As long as it gives you pleasure, why not?”

God wants us to be happy, “I came that you might have life, and have it to the full.”

I’m not an apologist (couldn’t tell, huh =0 ), and there are people who are better equipped to tell in full.

(Just want you all to know, I have this problem myself, so I’m not trying to sound high-and-mighty, or anything.)

 

[monsignor]

Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. And understand that I’m not “dying” to do this, but I do understand the “end result of sex is to be procreation”, but what about after those years have passed. If your partner no longer has a desire for sex…but you do??

 

[JamesE24]

Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. And understand that I’m not “dying” to do this, but I do understand the “end result of sex is to be procreation”, but what about after those years have passed. If your partner no longer has a desire for sex…but you do??

The only thing I think you could do in that situation is pray that God helps you overcome the desire and temptation, because it is a temptation. Masturbation is a grave sin, and no matter what the circumstances, you are never “allowed” to do it.

I am not in that situation (I’m 18, and not even in a relationship) so I don’t know what a person in that situation would be going through. All I can say is that masturbation is a sin, no matter the circumstances, and that it will only do you and your relationship harm.

 

[TLM08]

Hmm, I feel for you. It got it’s claws into me when I was about 20, and it’s been a besetting sin. I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t do drugs and, after a terrible marriage I’ve been celibate for 20+ years.

Sigh.

For lent I resolved to fight masterbation and, so far, I have been successful. It really wasn’t all that pleasurable and only left me frustrated and lonely.

Before the act, the brain, which is an organ too, actively works to focus the mind on the rush of pleasure chemicals it will receive during orgasm. During this same time, it’s also working to push out all of the unpleasurable emotions that often occur immediately after these pleasure chemicals wear off.

In other words, before masturbation, we only think about what the act can do for us and not what it does to us.

 

[TLM08]

Thanks for the very thoughtful reply. And understand that I’m not “dying” to do this, but I do understand the “end result of sex is to be procreation”, but what about after those years have passed. If your partner no longer has a desire for sex…but you do??

Beautiful question… Or what about the 60 year old widow who is still sexually vibrant yet has no desire to re-marry after burying the love of her life?

 

[rick43235]

I would say I’m probably an addict, even though I don’t want to be, because I grew up in a household that permitted masturbation…

Even though I personally do not consider masturbation a sin, “a household that permitted masturbation” is something that I just can’t seem to wrap my brain around.

“Mom, what time is dinner? Do I have time to abuse myself first?”

 

[tabsie3210]

Even though I personally do not consider masturbation a sin, “a household that permitted masturbation” is something that I just can’t seem to wrap my brain around.

“Mom, what time is dinner? Do I have time to abuse myself first?”

More like this - when I was little I suffered from severe anxitey and panic attacks. I didn’t get diagnosed with panic disorder until I was about 28 or so, give or take. When you’re three, you do something to get rid of the panic feelings, and so I masturbated, since it helped me keep control over myself and kept me from flaking out. Mom permitted it, since it did help me keep from freaking out and since all the “best” books out there said, “Don’t interefere with a child’s discover of her body, yadda yadda yadda,” and how masturbation was more helpful than a hinderance to a small child.

Basically, I did it any time I was desperately afraid and was at home, and a lot of things made me very scared. I didn’t have any sexual thoughts, since I had no idea what sex was, but I knew that if I was very frightened, masturbating made me less scared and afterward I could handle the situation.

Well, the panic disorder is now under control with the help of medication that balances my brain chemicals better than they could on their own, and I’m not a terrified three-year-old anymore, so now I’m old enough to know better and to try to take control of my body.

Mother wasn’t trying to do anything wrong. She had me when she was 19, she had married a much older widower with two teenage daughters (Dad was 39, and his daughters were 16 and 13), and she turned to experts for advice. Overall, since I grew up to be a productive person, she did a good job, and only recently are we figuring out that some of the stuff my parents raised me with wasn’t always in my best interest.

So it’s not, “Hey, I’ll be inside abusing myself, call me when my show comes on,” it was me, all alone in the middle of the night, terrified of the noises on the roof (which were squirrles running around, but I didn’t know that) and needing something to keep from screaming, and if Mom happened to come in, she’d tell me that’s something for privacy at home, not to do it in public, and that she’d knock before she came in.

It’s all a matter of context.

 

[Wowbagger]

Ignoring the again-flowering and possibly honest interrogation about whether or not masturbation is a sin that’s apparently taken over your thread, tabsie, the answer is, very simply, no one really knows. It is often said that there are only two people who know your true heart of hearts–you and God. But even this is not really true. Of all the people we encounter in the world, we know ourselves least of all. We swing from self-love to self-hatred like a pendulum on amphetamines, and, never seeing into anyone else’s heart, we have no stick against which to measure ourselves. For this reason, it can be all but impossible for us to determine whether the grave evils we commit are mortal sins, especially when there are extenuating circumstances involved, such as the toxic environment (and the toxic culture) in which you grew up. (And, yes, I know, your mother only wanted what was best for you. This is no slight against her good intentions. It simply is what it is.)

“Addiction” is a word that has largely been deprived of its power during this decade. It is also a word born into popular use out of the culture of psychoanalytic salvation that fluorished during the final thirty years of the last century. I think, though there are certainly strong similarities between your experience with your great isolating pleasure and the alcoholic’s experience with his great isolating pleasure, you are correct to avoid the word “addiction.”

A better word, I think, would be “habit.” There’s a word with a long pedigree in the Catholic dialect, and it brings us much closer to the words of the Catechism. You seemingly have a strong acquired habit, accreted gradually over the course of decades with no serious parental, social, or conscientious check. The very fact that you have come to resist it after being so steeped in it is commendable. You should be proud of yourself–and grateful for the opportunity that God’s grace has given you. Your continued slips do not appear to me, based on what you have said, to be mortal sins. As one of my greatest teachers taught me, an evil habit that is fought, whether successfully or not, is still an evil habit, but, as long as the resistance continues, it cannot settle down and become a vice.

Now, that being said, masturbation remains a grave matter. Even if not a mortal sin in every or any case in which you personally commit it, it still needs to be confessed before you receive communion, which, for as long as you fight this, probably means frequent confession. Your priest would be wrong to say that this is over-scrupulousness. However, you would be being over-scrupulous if you tortured yourself over your own weakness of will in the confessional every week, and this may well be what your priest was responding to. Even if you can’t defeat this sin right now, it does not define you, and it should not be at the center of your spiritual life. Indeed, you may find that only once you put it into its proper place will you be able to start winning battles against it.

Of course, on the other hand, it sounds like you’re actually doing better overall with chastity (not unjustly called “the difficult virtue”) than I am, so take my advice with a grain of salt. And keep on fighting.

Book recommendation: Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. His writing comes across as sanctimonious and self-rightgeous at times, but he has a wonderful section in the middle of the book, about a page long, that talks about the difference between resisting and crucifying one’s own disordered desires. That page was worth the price of the book for me.

Hope I was helpful in answering your question. God bless.

 

[JamesE24]

Ignoring the again-flowering and possibly honest interrogation about whether or not masturbation is a sin that’s apparently taken over your thread, tabsie, the answer is, very simply, no one really knows. It is often said that there are only two people who know your true heart of hearts–you and God. But even this is not really true. Of all the people we encounter in the world, we know ourselves least of all. We swing from self-love to self-hatred like a pendulum on amphetamines, and, never seeing into anyone else’s heart, we have no stick against which to measure ourselves. For this reason, it can be all but impossible for us to determine whether the grave evils we commit are mortal sins, especially when there are extenuating circumstances involved, such as the toxic environment (and the toxic culture) in which you grew up. (And, yes, I know, your mother only wanted what was best for you. This is no slight against her good intentions. It simply is what it is.)

“Addiction” is a word that has largely been deprived of its power during this decade. It is also a word born into popular use out of the culture of psychoanalytic salvation that fluorished during the final thirty years of the last century. I think, though there are certainly strong similarities between your experience with your great isolating pleasure and the alcoholic’s experience with his great isolating pleasure, you are correct to avoid the word “addiction.”

A better word, I think, would be “habit.” There’s a word with a long pedigree in the Catholic dialect, and it brings us much closer to the words of the Catechism. You seemingly have a strong acquired habit, accreted gradually over the course of decades with no serious parental, social, or conscientious check. The very fact that you have come to resist it after being so steeped in it is commendable. You should be proud of yourself–and grateful for the opportunity that God’s grace has given you. Your continued slips do not appear to me, based on what you have said, to be mortal sins. As one of my greatest teachers taught me, an evil habit that is fought, whether successfully or not, is still an evil habit, but, as long as the resistance continues, it cannot settle down and become a vice.

Now, that being said, masturbation remains a grave matter. Even if not a mortal sin in every or any case in which you personally commit it, it still needs to be confessed before you receive communion, which, for as long as you fight this, probably means frequent confession. Your priest would be wrong to say that this is over-scrupulousness. However, you would be being over-scrupulous if you tortured yourself over your own weakness of will in the confessional every week, and this may well be what your priest was responding to. Even if you can’t defeat this sin right now, it does not define you, and it should not be at the center of your spiritual life. Indeed, you may find that only once you put it into its proper place will you be able to start winning battles against it.

Of course, on the other hand, it sounds like you’re actually doing better overall with chastity (not unjustly called “the difficult virtue”) than I am, so take my advice with a grain of salt. And keep on fighting.

Book recommendation: Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. His writing comes across as sanctimonious and self-rightgeous at times, but he has a wonderful section in the middle of the book, about a page long, that talks about the difference between resisting and crucifying one’s own disordered desires. That page was worth the price of the book for me.

Hope I was helpful in answering your question. God bless.

Amen!