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B
Brooklyn
Guest
This is just too scary. The Catholic Catechism, as is quoted here, says that masturbation is definitely a mortal sin, because masturbation is sex for the purpose of pleasure only and has nothing to do with procreation or showing love for your spouse and therefore an entirely selfish act.
We here in the United States and certainly all of the western world have access to many different teaching tools of the Catholic Church. I would think that every Catholic household should have a Bible and the Catechism. Priests are human beings, and subject to sin as all the rest of us are. If they say something that doesn’t sound right, I really believe that we have a responsibility to check it out. We can’t go on with the belief that everything they say and preach is inspired by God. We are hurting ourselves spiritually. The Apostle Paul said to prove all things, and the Catholic Church has made that relatively easy.
The excuse of “that’s what my priest said” will only go so far.
Mary
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CuriousInIL
Guest
Question already answered–sorry for the post.
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
I need to take exception with this. A majority of Catholics do not “investigate” their faith. It is entirely possible for a teenager to go to confession, confess the sin of masturbation, be told that it is not a sin and go off honestly never questioning it.
That’s what happened to me for nearly a quarter of a century. Then, through the grace of God, I was drawn to a deeper understanding of my faith and found myself with a 20+ year old sinful habit that was extremely difficult to break. I could very easily see how my life could have been drawn in a different direction where I never would have questioned that poor advise in the confessional and continued to unknowingly live in sin.
I don’t see how one could be held accountable for that.
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
But one has to wonder how many have accepted that teaching as “official” and now are regularily committing sinful acts due to such mis-information.
B
Brooklyn
Guest
I agree that one cannot be held accountable for what one does not know.
But I also ask, if a teenager, or anyone for that matter, is confessing the sin of masturbation, or any other sin for that matter, then that person must have a sense that they have committed sin. Somewhere along the line, the person has become aware that masturbation is a sin. Why would he accept one person telling him something that he knows is not true, other than for the fact that this is what he wants to believe because he wants to do it?
If one priest is telling me one thing, and another priest is telling me the opposite, I would go to the source, the Church itself, to find the truth. Unless, that is, I didn’t want to know the truth.
Then who is accountable? Thank God, he is the judge, not I.
Mary
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yugnok
Guest
Unfortunately, there are a lot of priests like this–stuck in the 1980’s.
The were presented with the Fundamental Option model of moral theology in the 80’s, which basically said that you could knowingly and freely commit a sin involving grave matter and not have it be mortal sin unless you made an absolute personal choice against God (making your fundamental option against God).
One of the main focuses of JPII’s encyclical *Veritatis Splendor *was to counter the Fundamental Option moral theologians.
Too bad not too many these priests care to read anything that comes out of Rome.
Another thing you might hear this priest say if you show him the catechism reference is that the CCC says masturbation is a “disordered act” not a sin. Your response out to be “then why does it give advice to priests in the CCC in order to better judge the moral culpability of a penitent who confesses masturbation? If there is no sin, then there is no culpability to evaluate.”
Here is a quote from CCC 2352:
“To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.”
So in other words, its grave matter, but there are circumstances that can reduce culpability.
The were presented with the Fundamental Option model of moral theology in the 80’s, which basically said that you could knowingly and freely commit a sin involving grave matter and not have it be mortal sin unless you made an absolute personal choice against God (making your fundamental option against God).
One of the main focuses of JPII’s encyclical *Veritatis Splendor *was to counter the Fundamental Option moral theologians.
Too bad not too many these priests care to read anything that comes out of Rome.
Another thing you might hear this priest say if you show him the catechism reference is that the CCC says masturbation is a “disordered act” not a sin. Your response out to be “then why does it give advice to priests in the CCC in order to better judge the moral culpability of a penitent who confesses masturbation? If there is no sin, then there is no culpability to evaluate.”
Here is a quote from CCC 2352:
“To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.”
So in other words, its grave matter, but there are circumstances that can reduce culpability.
T
theoprofessor
Guest
This is a most interesting subject in that I thought perhaps I was the only one, or a precious few, who has had this type of problem with a priest.
I teach 7th grade CCD. During one class, I mentioned that masturbation was a grave [mortal] sin only to be “corrected” by a student who offered that Fr. X said it was not. I wrote an email to this priest which outlined this situation and quoted the church’s position on this. He was kind enough to email me and outlined his position which totally ignored the official position of the church’s magisterium saying that it was not a grave sin because HE could not believe that anyone could go to hell for it. Further he mentioned that few teenagers confess this “sin” to him and when they do he offers “pastoral advice”. I do not quite know what this advice consists of but knowing his position I can imagine.
Seeking some advice about what I should do about this situation of a newly ordained priest informing young people that masturbation is not a grave sin, I wrote to a priest-professor who had instructed me in an introductory course in dogma. He never replied. At that point I took it no further and till this day I question the correctness of this decision.
Perhaps before priests are ordained their understanding of Catholic theology should be rigorously examined.
W
wjp984
Guest
I always like the story about how two friends are Catholic but one of them continuously does the same sin because he says his priest says it is not a sin. The other friend as well as others try to correct him and inform him otherwise but the sinning friend keeps saying how hos priest says it is alright so it must be alright and he keeps doing it. Years later one of the friends is in Heaven and he asks about the other one. He is told that the other friend didn’t quite make it and then he is riding along the priest’s back in Hell.
Pray for these priests that misinform people so much since it is a big problem. I consistently try to rationalize things and weigh the evidence based on what certain priest say and am more tempted to sin because of them.
Pray for these priests that misinform people so much since it is a big problem. I consistently try to rationalize things and weigh the evidence based on what certain priest say and am more tempted to sin because of them.
M
mjr7893
Guest
what is strange to me is that Priest’s know the consequences but still teach this. I’ve heard 2-3 priests (dont remember if it was 2 or 3) say very similar things to me.
A homily I even heard said it was ok to do… I would like that is even worse than during a confession imho, but what do I know
A homily I even heard said it was ok to do… I would like that is even worse than during a confession imho, but what do I know
L
LISA_Annette
Guest
I have encountered some strange advice from priests concerning other sexual sins—actually, I went to ask for advice on an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT matter, and the priest thought it good to BY THE WAY give me marital advice on using pornography—that I should view pornography with my husband. I was very young at the time, so I think he thought he was “enlightening” me, but I was very insulted and angry that he felt so at liberty to tell me such a thing
. Of course I knew better, and decided he was not good to consult with.
There are just some strange things you will encounter—but don’t let it get you down, or turn you away from the Catholic Church. Satan is hard at work trying to destroy that which scares him. The terrible thing is, that there will be some people that WILL fall for the ratty advice. Pray for these priests AND the souls they lead astray! May St Michael be there with his sword!!
. Of course I knew better, and decided he was not good to consult with.There are just some strange things you will encounter—but don’t let it get you down, or turn you away from the Catholic Church. Satan is hard at work trying to destroy that which scares him. The terrible thing is, that there will be some people that WILL fall for the ratty advice. Pray for these priests AND the souls they lead astray! May St Michael be there with his sword!!
M
mercygate
Guest
They are rigorously examined. You can pass a test without believing the content. They either cling mindlessly to what they might have been taught in seminary during the dark ages (1970-1995) or they ignore official teaching and fly by their own radar.
D
Dempsey1919
Guest
These Priests may be denying that masturbation is a sin so that they can indulge in this activity without feeling guilty. They most likely know that it is a sin but choose to ignore it because they themselves are guilty and don’t want to admit it.
I would have no problem arguing with a Priest who gave me wrong information. Let’s not forget that this is vitally important; we’re not talking about a difference of opinion, we are talking about the safety of our immortal souls!
Priests are human like us, they are by no means infallable. I would argue with them if need be. If they are teaching contrary to the Church then they deserve to be reproached.
I would have no problem arguing with a Priest who gave me wrong information. Let’s not forget that this is vitally important; we’re not talking about a difference of opinion, we are talking about the safety of our immortal souls!
Priests are human like us, they are by no means infallable. I would argue with them if need be. If they are teaching contrary to the Church then they deserve to be reproached.
M
mercygate
Guest
I agree. Someone I know confessed something as a sin that the Priest told her was NOT a sin, and she replied: Father, according to the Catechism, this IS a sin.
End of conversation. She walked out.
I have heard a priest say that if a priest tells you something in Confession that you know is contrary to Church teaching, or if he yells at you, you should tell him to go to (yes: he SAID the word!) and walk away.
But this takes consideratble maturity. And even for a person of strong convictions and mature judgment, if it’s a grave sin, and you want to clear the deck, you might want not to walk around for a week with it on your conscience. You might settle for the fact that the absolution covers, even if the priest is out to lunch.
S
Sir_Knight
Guest
No reason to be nasty about it. Merely inform the priest that scripture tells us in Romans 14 that if somebody believes something to be a sin, then it IS a sin.
T
Tracyms1974
Guest
We have a hard time just getting people to GO to confession in our church.
T
Tommy_Joe
Guest
That’s kinda how I look at it!If you have to ask whether or not something is a sin,…it’s probably a sin.
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fix
Guest
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CuriousInIL
Guest
Just a warning–this does not work at all for the scrupulous.
If you have to ask whether or not something is a sin,…it’s probably a sin.
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