Masturbation is wrong, but eating ice cream is okay?

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ethereality

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The wrongfulness of seeking sexual pleasure for itself is clearly taught by the Church. But doesn’t it logically follow that seeking any pleasure for itself is wrong? How is eating ice cream, using one’s digestive faculties for mere pleasure, any more morally acceptable than using one’s sexual faculties for mere pleasure? Just as the sexual act is perverted via futility by masturbation, the alimentary act is perverted via futility by junk food: no healthy unitive or procreative aspect in the former, no nutritional in the latter.

Christian ascetics throughout the centuries, appearing to follow Christian doctrine to its conclusion, apparently have concluded that such misuse of food is wrong, and I think they called it gluttony, “It is incontrovertible that to eat or drink for the mere pleasure of the experience, and for that exclusively, is likewise to commit the sin of gluttony”. Regarding the Christian perspective of necessity, we have St. Cyril of Jerusalem for example, “The purpose of clothing is to keep warm in winter and to cover your nakedness, not to serve your vanity.”

Yet many today conclude that eating ice cream is not sinful, “because God wants us to enjoy ourselves”, “because it’s giving someone a job”, “because it’s not a big deal every once in a while”, “because it’s a way to socialize”. (I can think of responses to all these objections, but I don’t wish to write a treatise.)

How is it consistent to disapprove of the sexual act that is not procreative or unitive, yet approve of the alimentary act that is not nutritional, when both are based on deriving pleasure? Do we become gluttons every time we choose the cookie, soda, beer, ice cream, or chips, when we could have chosen fruit, vegetables, tea, etc? Is it ever acceptable to eat something merely for pleasure?

(I mention ice cream as an extreme example for the sake of clarity, but this argument then extends to all junk food, e.g. cookies, snack chips, soda, dessert pies.)
 
ethereality said:
The wrongfulness of seeking sexual pleasure for itself is clearly taught by the Church.
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Not quite right. It is the seeking of pleasure by means of immorally using something contrary to its purpose.

…“The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” …(CCC 2352)

You need to actually read the text, then you will see that your whole argument is based on a misconception.

-ahs
 
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
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2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139
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A good description of gluttony:
We enter into Gluttony when we demand more pleasure from something than it was made for. Normally, we can only eat so much food, but some people in Ancient Rome wanted more pleasure, so they threw up after the meal and then ate more. This allowed them to enjoy eating more at the cost of health (and dignity).
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Gluttony seeks after immediate gratification, pleasure and comfort with little regard for the needs of others.
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Sexual pleasure is a beautiful thing. Sexual immorality, however, is a very ugly thing. All immorality is ugly. Pleasure sought by immoral means is sinful, but not pleasure itself.

Ice cream is not immoral. This ought to axiomatic to any discussion of moral philosophy!
 
Eating food is an action that is fruitful, which is meant to help sustain the body, except when in excess.

Masturbation is an action that is NOT fruitful and a perversion. Unless you’re completing a sexual act in the marital embrace, with openness to life, you are not completing a good, fruitful act.
 
We enter into Gluttony when we demand more pleasure from something than it was made for. Normally, we can only eat so much food, but some people in Ancient Rome wanted more pleasure, so they threw up after the meal and then ate more. This allowed them to enjoy eating more at the cost of health (and dignity).
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Gluttony seeks after immediate gratification, pleasure and comfort with little regard for the needs of others.
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I think the OP has a point. I don’t think it’s that masturbation is to be regarded as without moral consequence, but we are a culture of gluttons. Only now, instead of vomiting so we can eat more to attain more pleasure from food, we invent “food” that actually isn’t food at all in the usual sense, and seek from it immediate pleasure, gratification and comfort. That is, we take what God has provided for our sustenance and pervert it into something we use solely for pleasure with little regard for the needs of others. You can’t justify spending money on empty calories that are shortening your life when 25,000 people a day die of starvation and hunger-related causes.
 
It sounds to me that you are trying to justify the act of masturbation by suggesting that if Ice Cream is OK, then M.B. should be OK also. I don’t think you really mean that ice cream is sinful but your intent is to say M.B. should not be.

Your argument is a very poor attempt at rationalization.
 
ethereality said:
The wrongfulness of seeking sexual pleasure for itself is clearly taught by the Church. But doesn’t it logically follow that seeking any pleasure for itself is wrong? How is eating ice cream, using one’s digestive faculties for mere pleasure, any more morally acceptable than using one’s sexual faculties for mere pleasure? Just as the sexual act is perverted via futility by masturbation, the alimentary act is perverted via futility by junk food: no healthy unitive or procreative aspect in the former, no nutritional in the latter.
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Because desires for ice cream don’t produce children. Even compulsive desires for ice cream don’t produce children.

The temporary fulfillment of sexual desires created with yourself leads to the need to experience the fulfillment of sexual desires with another person.

I’d suggest you read “Love and Responsibility” originally written by Blessed Pope John Paul II.

P.S. I fear you have a weak understanding of chastity which is all too common in our society. Why be average?
 
I think that the OP brings out some good points that are well worth considering - Not as a justification for masturbation, but certainly in how we view eating and food in general.

Julia Mae hit on this with her reference to “empty Calories” and “invented foods”…

Of course the “timing” of this thread is interesting also - right when many are trying shed “holiday poundage”…:rolleyes:😊

All that said, I agree that the connection is pretty tenuous, especially given the examples offered. Ice cream is very nutritious. Beer is also. Cookies cake and chips would be less nutritious but still not entirely “empty calories”. Soda and such on the other hand…not much to brag about there.

So yes - one can use food in a disordered manner just as one can use sex in a disordered manner. Likewise one can use each in a perfectly ordered manner.

Now - to the matter of whether it is a sin to eat something “purely for pleasure”. Yes it can be depending on other factors such as the specific situation, total food intake, etc.

Peace
James
 
A significant part of the difference rests in the designed intent of the acts and how we use them.

Sexual function is designed to be uniting and procreative, pleasure is just a side effect.

Eating is designed to provide nutrition to sustain life, again pleasure is just a side effect.

We are not obligated to deny ourselves pleasure. We are just called upon to use our bodies and creation as intended and to not make selfishness and pleasure the reason for our actions.

Beer provides protein, carbohydrates, calcium, magnesium, potassium, niacin and other nutrients as well as water. Consumed in moderation, with other foods it is not contrary to the purpose of eating or drinking.

Similarly, ice cream does provide nutrients. So, in and of itself eating ice cream does not contradict the purpose for eating.

Certainly, eating solely ice cream or drinking solely beer would be harmful. And if you become too focused on the pleasure derived from those substance to the point of drunkenness or obesity then you may be engaging in sinful behavior. But the act in and of itself is not contrary to the purpose.

But, masturbation is much different. Remember, the intent of sexual function is unification and procreation. There is no possibility of procreation and the act of self-pleasure is isolating so it is completely contrary to the intended purpose.

Deriving pleasure from something in a manner that is not contrary to the purpose of that thing is fine, deriving pleasure while contradicting the intent is sinful.
 
This part of my post hasn’t been directly addressed:
ethereality said:
gluttony, “It is incontrovertible that to eat or drink for the mere pleasure of the experience, and for that exclusively, is likewise to commit the sin of gluttony”. Regarding the Christian perspective of necessity, we have St. Cyril of Jerusalem for example, “The purpose of clothing is to keep warm in winter and to cover your nakedness, not to serve your vanity.”
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Americans purchase jewelry, which is expressly to serve vanity; it does not cover nakedness or keep warm or protect against the elements.

Likewise, what reason is there to eat ice cream other than “for the mere pleasure of the experience”? Are you all saying the author of this Catholic Encyclopedia article is wrong, that eating for the mere pleasure of the experience is not gluttony?
 
In order for your comparison to be accurate, you must do something with ice cream for pleasure that is contrary to eating it (which is what food is for, and what our digestive system is for.) So you could compare masturbation to eating ice cream for the flavor, then puking it out before you could digest it… then doing it again… and again… and again.

In the popular book the "hunger games’ while they were in the city they would stuff themselves to the gills, and then drink a drink to make themselves vomit it back out. Then they would eat more and more and do it again. This is an example of disordered eating, eating not for the food but only for the pleasure.
 
Apart from the defience of Gd by Adam and Eve, Masturbation is the oldest sin listed in the bible. A man named Onan was having intercourse with his wife (?) and practiced coitus interuptus and “spilled his seed on the ground”, for which Gd struck him dead.
Ever since, masturbation has been considered “the sin of Onan” or Onanism.
How that could possibly equate with ice cream or other so-called pleasures absolutely boggles the imagination!
If you are going to debate something, be serious and spare us from such trivial sophomoric idiocies!
Like it or not, there is absolutely no excuse for masturbation, and all the excuses about raging adolescent hormones and “its normal because everyone does it” are nothing more than cop-outs that have no basis in morality.
G*d and Mother Church expects us to have a little more gumption and fortitude than that.
 
While I completely agree that masturbation is wrong, I too struggle to see how masturbation can be wrong, while eating foods that are detrimental to your body (purely for the sake of pleasure) is completely ok unless done in access.

The OP has a good point and asks a tough question.

Thanks for posting this thread.
 
JRKH said:
I think that the OP brings out some good points that are well worth considering - Not as a justification for masturbation, but certainly in how we view eating and food in general.
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👍
 
That article doesn’t really address the question raised by the Catholic Encyclopedia article, that eating merely for pleasure is to commit gluttony, and for what reason do you eat ice cream other than mere pleasure? This problem is exacerbated by realizing that, instead of spending $3 on an ice cream cone, the money could have gone to serve the poor (who are always with us) who need it for nutritious food among other things. Furthermore, ice cream makes you fat – it’s one of the last foods Americans should be eating – so questions are raised about whether one is polluting or disrespecting the temple of the Holy Spirit (the body) by eating such an unhealthy food.
 
ethereality said:
and for what reason do you eat ice cream other than mere pleasure?
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various reasons…

a kind of recreation even…

I know for me a nice bowl of icecream…or some oreos can be a wonderful part of recreation.👍
 
ethereality said:
This problem is exacerbated by realizing that, instead of spending $3 on an ice cream cone, the money could have gone to serve the poor
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Such can be a good of course to give it up for such. But we need not give up all things in life usually to serve the poor.
 
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