Masturbation is wrong, but eating ice cream is okay?

[Bookcat]

Furthermore, ice cream makes you fat – it’s one of the last foods Americans should be eating – so questions are raised about whether one is polluting or disrespecting the temple of the Holy Spirit (the body) by eating such an unhealthy food.

nope.

Moderation…

Over eating of ice cream and the like can make one fat etc.

 

[Nate13]

nope.

Moderation…

Over eating of ice cream and the like can make one fat etc.

Isn’t great that God put in all those in built mechanisms to let us know when we are over-indulging? What a swell guy

 

[LittleSoldier]

This part of my post hasn’t been directly addressed:Americans purchase jewelry, which is expressly to serve vanity; it does not cover nakedness or keep warm or protect against the elements.

Likewise, what reason is there to eat ice cream other than “for the mere pleasure of the experience”? Are you all saying the author of this Catholic Encyclopedia article is wrong, that eating for the mere pleasure of the experience is not gluttony?

Are you saying that the author of this Catholic Encyclopedia is the Magisterium? Or is omniscient?

Jewelry is not worn expressly to serve vanity. A watch can be pretty and still show the correct time; is it vain to want to know the correct time? A necklace can have a cross on it; is it vain to wish to show others that one is a Christian? A charm bracelet may remind one of her interests or happy memories; is it vain to want to be reminded of these? A ring may remind one of a beloved grandmother; is it vain to wear it in her honor? A ring may remind one that one is married; is it vain to want to show that one is involved in a marital relationship with someone one loves? Earrings may bring needed color to the face of a person who has been ill or who lives in areas where there is not much sunlight (I’m serious; I am both ill and live in such an area and I am so pale that without a little makeup and earrings I look like a cadaver); is it vain to wear earrings in this situation?

It is vain when one wears jewelry to show attention to oneself in place of God, to imply that one is so important and so good and to try to get everyone to “Hey! Look at me! I must be really great because I have all this jewelry! Look, I have a four carat diamond ring, set in platinum! And it’s real, too! Look at me! Look at me! Look at me! Don’t pay attention to others, don’t waste your time praying, don’t think about God - JUST LOOK AT MY JEWELRY AND ME BECAUSE I AM WHAT IS IMPORTANT - NOT GOD.”

THAT is vanity.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. the temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74

 

[bmullins]

That article doesn’t really address the question raised by the Catholic Encyclopedia article, that eating merely for pleasure is to commit gluttony, and for what reason do you eat ice cream other than mere pleasure? This problem is exacerbated by realizing that, instead of spending $3 on an ice cream cone, the money could have gone to serve the poor (who are always with us) who need it for nutritious food among other things. Furthermore, ice cream makes you fat – it’s one of the last foods Americans should be eating – so questions are raised about whether one is polluting or disrespecting the temple of the Holy Spirit (the body) by eating such an unhealthy food.

These are all valid points, and should be considered. They are also an entirely different conversation. To cover all the points that we shouldn’t eat unhealthy foods, or even byproducts of factory farming, would require much more than discussing the difference in masturbating and ice cream consumption.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. the temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74

 

[LittleSoldier]

That article doesn’t really address the question raised by the Catholic Encyclopedia article, that eating merely for pleasure is to commit gluttony, and for what reason do you eat ice cream other than mere pleasure? This problem is exacerbated by realizing that, instead of spending $3 on an ice cream cone, the money could have gone to serve the poor (who are always with us) who need it for nutritious food among other things. Furthermore, ice cream makes you fat – it’s one of the last foods Americans should be eating – so questions are raised about whether one is polluting or disrespecting the temple of the Holy Spirit (the body) by eating such an unhealthy food.

For what reason does one eat ice cream other than pleasure? I will tell you. Ice cream is one of the best foods that can be used to bring a diabetic out of a severe reaction. It can be used as medicine. I am diabetic and my Mom was, too. I often hand-fed her ice cream when she was so deep in a reaction that she couldn’t help herself. Of course I would say that bringing a diabetic out of a reaction that might otherwise result in her death is very pleasurable but I don’t see anything wrong with that pleasure.

Natural ice cream made with ingredients such as Stevia (an herb which is low in carbs but high in sweetness) can be a healthy food. It can contain nuts (beneficial for regulating the blood glucose of diabetics, at least that is what my diabetes counselor told me (especially walnuts)), spices such as cinnamon (perhaps beneficial for regulating the blood glucose of diabetics, at least that is what my diabetes counselor told me), fruit (obviously healthy), protein (needed for life), calcium (needed for life)…

Masturbation does not bring a diabetic out of a reaction. Masturbation does not open one to the possibility of life and it does not increase the bond of love between spouses. It is a selfish act, meant to gratify oneself (although if performed because of habit and weakness there is a question of degree of culpability). There is nothing good about it. And although masturbation can certainly be involved in death (as in auto-erotic asphyxiation), I have yet to hear of a cause of death being listed as “failure to masturbate.”

We have to eat to survive. We don’t have to masturbate to survive. Comparing the two makes no sense. It’s like comparing apples and movies.

BTW, ice cream is a product. It is morally neutral. It doesn’t jump into people’s mouths and force itself into them. It is the *immoderate consumption *of ice cream that is one possible factor in a plethora of factors that act together to result in a person becoming overweight.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1809 Temperance is the moral virtue that moderates the attraction of pleasures and provides balance in the use of created goods. It ensures the will’s mastery over instincts and keeps desires within the limits of what is honorable. the temperate person directs the sensitive appetites toward what is good and maintains a healthy discretion: "Do not follow your inclination and strength, walking according to the desires of your heart."72 Temperance is often praised in the Old Testament: "Do not follow your base desires, but restrain your appetites."73 In the New Testament it is called “moderation” or “sobriety.” We ought "to live sober, upright, and godly lives in this world."74

 

[ethereality]

1. “Eating ice cream as part of a recreational activity is fine” has been suggested above. Replace “eating ice cream” with “doing drugs”, etc, and you’ll see that it’s simply a distraction from the actual question, which is: Why do you eat the ice cream? (Indeed, some drink beer “while hanging out with friends”, and indeed the beverage is often used as a drug on those occasions.) Ice cream is not an inherent part of spending time with friends, and is a separate activity from spending time with friends: the agent is doing two activities at once: the eating of ice cream, and the sharing time with friends. I really feel this might be a waste of time trying to help someone to see this fact, though. If you don’t get it already, you probably aren’t going to.
2. Thanks for telling me about using ice cream as medicine for diabetics. I didn’t know that. That would not be gluttony, since the ice cream is not being eaten merely for pleasure. But eating ice cream as a means to enhance pleasure while spending time with friends so far has not been demonstrated to not be gluttony, since it is still being eaten merely for pleasure in that case, right?
3. No one has shown that the OCE article is wrong, particularly where it says ““it’s incontrovertible that”] eating for mere pleasure is gluttony”. Recalling temperance is good, but temperance does not say “a little (anything)_ is okay, too much is bad”; temperance addresses using too much of a good thing, e.g. taking too long of showers, wanting to eat too much (healthy) food, wanting to spend too much time at leisure, etc.

 

[Vouthon]

I think the OP actually does have a good point.

I agree 100% that masturbation is morally wrong, however I do struggle too understand how misuse of one’s sexual organs to simply derive pleasure rather than be open to life, can be wrong while misuse of one’s digestive system to simply enjoy the pleasure of food without taking into account that food exists - like sex - with a purpose, to nourish our very existence isn;t.

The Bible, especially in Ecclesiastes, tells us that in and of itself wine and food is good simply because it is pleasurable, so long as it is not consumed to excess. So we are biblically sanctioned to enjoy the pleasure of wine and food, so long as its no excessive, but not the pleasure of sex. Hmm.

I reiterate that masturbation and premarital sex are wrong, however we seem to be a little too liberal with our eating habits, if things are to add up for me. And yet the bible seems to say its fine to enjoy food and wine simply for the pleasure so long as its not excessive. I’m confused

 

[Debora123]

I think the OP actually does have a good point.

I agree 100% that masturbation is morally wrong, however I do struggle too understand how misuse of one’s sexual organs to simply derive pleasure rather than be open to life, can be wrong while misuse of one’s digestive system to simply enjoy the pleasure of food without taking into account that food exists - like sex - with a purpose, to nourish our very existence isn;t.

The Bible, especially in Ecclesiastes, tells us that in and of itself wine and food is good simply because it is pleasurable, so long as it is not consumed to excess. So we are biblically sanctioned to enjoy the pleasure of wine and food, so long as its no excessive, but not the pleasure of sex. Hmm.

I reiterate that masturbation and premarital sex are wrong, however we seem to be a little too liberal with our eating habits, if things are to add up for me. And yet the bible seems to say its fine to enjoy food and wine simply for the pleasure so long as its not excessive. I’m confused

Yup, me too… :sad_yes:

 

[Bookcat]

1. “Eating ice cream as part of a recreational activity is fine” has been suggested above. Replace “eating ice cream” with “doing drugs”, etc, and you’ll see that it’s simply a distraction from the actual question, which is: Why do you eat the ice cream? (Indeed, some drink beer “while hanging out with friends”, and indeed the beverage is often used as a drug on those occasions.) Ice cream is not an inherent part of spending time with friends, and is a separate activity from spending time with friends: the agent is doing two activities at once: the eating of ice cream, and the sharing time with friends. I really feel this might be a waste of time trying to help someone to see this fact, though. If you don’t get it already, you probably aren’t going to.

“Killing a cockroach is fine” can be said…Replace “cockroach” with “Grandma” and …

The difference between “killing a cockroach” and “Killing Grandma” is one of something that can even be called good and something that is evil (murder).

The difference between “Eating ice cream as part of a recreational activity is fine” and illegal “drugs” (say like heroine) is that the former can be a good while the latter is an evil.

1. Thanks for telling me about using ice cream as medicine for diabetics. I didn’t know that. That would not be gluttony, since the ice cream is not being eaten merely for pleasure. But eating ice cream as a means to enhance pleasure while spending time with friends so far has not been demonstrated to not be gluttony, since it is still being eaten merely for pleasure in that case, right?

Flying a kite for pleasurable recreation has not been demonstrated as not being Sloth" one doe not need to demonstrate that is not sloth…nor does one need to demonstrate that eating ice cream for recreation is not gluttony… one can fly a kite or eat ice cream as recreation…it need not be for “mere” pleasure.

1. No one has shown that the OCE article is wrong, particularly where it says ““it’s incontrovertible that”] eating for mere pleasure is gluttony”. Recalling temperance is good, but temperance does not say “a little (anything)_ is okay, too much is bad”; temperance addresses using too much of a good thing, e.g. taking too long of showers, wanting to eat too much (healthy) food, wanting to spend too much time at leisure, etc.

““eating ice cream” does not = necessarily eating for mere pleasure” etc

 

[Vouthon]

I think that Ecclesiastes’ teaching on the pleasure of food and wine should be considered in this discussion…and some portions of Sirach as well. They both seem to suggest that the pleasure derived from food is to be enjoyed in and of itself without taking into account the purpose of food, which is to nourish our existence, so long as it does not become excessive and lead to hedonism.

I don’t understand how there seems to be double standards on sex and food. The mere pleasure of one is wrong if the purpose of sex (to be open to life and a loving marital relationship) is not taken into account, whereas the mere pleasure of the other - eating food and drinking wine without taking into account the purpose of eating (for our survival) - isn’t.

I think theology needs to delve deeper into this area. The OP has really got me thinking.

I am still confused btw

 

[Bookcat]

Sirach: (from memory …)

God gave men wine to gladden men’s hearts-- what is life without wine?

(not a “literal trans…but more a dynamic one I read often years ago”

(it goes on to speak of it needing to be drunk moderately …but that it is to rejoice the heart and gladden the soul…where as drunkness leads to bitterness…etc etc)

(of course one has to understand it in context and in the genre of the wisdom writings etc…the poetry etc)

(such one can say…is also not “mere” pleasure…)

 

[Vouthon]

“…So I decided there is nothing better than to enjoy food and drink and to find satisfaction in work. Then I realized that these pleasures are from the hand of God…”

- Ecclesiastes 2:24



It seems to be saying that the pleasure of eating is good if the eater simply desires the pleasure of eating, without any thought for the purpose of eating - which is to nourish our bodies.

And of course wine complicates it more, because it doesn’t quench a person’s thirst. It has no real purpose except that it makes people happy and merry. Hmmm…and yet the Bible wants us to enjoy it within temperate bounds! But still enjoy it simply for the sake of the pleasure itself.

 

[Bookcat]

"“eating ice cream” does not = necessarily eating for “mere pleasure”

 

[Vouthon]

"“eating ice cream” does not = necessarily eating for “mere pleasure”

How many men/women do you think eat chocolate “to nourish their bodies”?

I know that when I last ate a chocolate bar the last thought on my mind was that I was eating it to survive or nourish my body. I ate it simply because I liked the taste.

I confess!

 

[Bookcat]

How many men/women do you think eat chocolate “to nourish their bodies”?

I know that when I last ate a chocolate bar the last thought on my mind was that I was eating it to survive or nourish my body. I ate it simply because I liked the taste.

I confess!

Who says it has to be “to nourish” the body?

 

[Bookcat]

“eating ice cream” does not = necessarily eating for “mere pleasure”

nor must it be only to nourish the body…

There is more to man and to eating than “nourishing the body”.

 

[JRKH]

That article doesn’t really address the question raised by the Catholic Encyclopedia article, that eating merely for pleasure is to commit gluttony,

Lets start to disassemble the argument here…

and for what reason do you eat ice cream other than mere pleasure?

What constitutes “mere pleasure”.
People eat foods that they like - that taste good to them. They do not eat foods that they don’t like. Now - because they “like” the taste of a food (pleasure) does that make the food sinful? Of course not. So the pleasure of flavor, texture etc is not what makes a food sinful.

This problem is exacerbated by realizing that, instead of spending $3 on an ice cream cone, the money could have gone to serve the poor (who are always with us) who need it for nutritious food among other things.

Yes this is true. It is also true that we could fore go many other things and give money to the poor. Things that are generally not associated with sin like, sunglasses, new furniture, any food that isn’t the cheapest available, books, computers, i-pods, kindles - and speaking of things used only for pleasure…how about boardgames, computer games, Cards…The list goes on and on…

Furthermore, ice cream makes you fat – it’s one of the last foods Americans should be eating –

Where did you hear that Ice-cream makes you fat??? Poor diet and lack of proper exercise along with various internal metabolic factors makes one fat. Being “Fat” isn’t tied to one particular food…
Now - Ice cream certainly isn’t the best food to build a diet around, but in it’s proper place ice-cream is fine.

so questions are raised about whether one is polluting or disrespecting the temple of the Holy Spirit (the body) by eating such an unhealthy food.

As explained above, it isn’t the ice-cream that is polluting…At least it isn’t the Ice-cream alone…Perhaps the bigger sin is eating ice-cream and not getting your behind up off the sofa and taking a good healthy walk.

Peace
James