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blaskoman
Guest
Hey. Steady there. I’m just as eager as you are to get the general consensus on this issue. Its definately a grey area.
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ivdaeorum
Guest
Masturbation is is not necessarily a mortal sin. For most people it is a venial sin. As one of the previous people said, the Church recognises factors including psychological, adolescent immuturity, and even ingrained habit. Saying this it is still a sin whether you like to think so or not.:tsktsk:
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liebee
Guest
To ask yourself if you feel you did wrong thing after it is all over is really the way to tell if it is a sin. Even tho’ you have never been told it is wrong, a good conscience will tell you and you will feel bad.
Would you feel ok if you had the urge to steal something when you wanted it badly? and did steal it? How about acting on an urge to “come on” to someone’s else’s wife? and you did.
A good conscience will tell you, if you really want to please God and follow His commandments, whether you have done wrong or not.
Mutual masturbation is what gay people do. Mutual masturbation is also what heterosexual people do when they use contraception. They feel bad? I think all of them have some sort of irritability toward themselves but don’t realize it. They are not good spouses toward each other. It will show up in some way in their personalities and maybe they won’t realize it until it is shown to them what the underlying problem is with their marriage or lifestyle. Check with therapists, they will tell you.
PLEASE GOD ENLIGHTEN YOUR “SHEEP”!
Would you feel ok if you had the urge to steal something when you wanted it badly? and did steal it? How about acting on an urge to “come on” to someone’s else’s wife? and you did.
A good conscience will tell you, if you really want to please God and follow His commandments, whether you have done wrong or not.
Mutual masturbation is what gay people do. Mutual masturbation is also what heterosexual people do when they use contraception. They feel bad? I think all of them have some sort of irritability toward themselves but don’t realize it. They are not good spouses toward each other. It will show up in some way in their personalities and maybe they won’t realize it until it is shown to them what the underlying problem is with their marriage or lifestyle. Check with therapists, they will tell you.
PLEASE GOD ENLIGHTEN YOUR “SHEEP”!
F
freshwind
Guest
So - seems much of the discussion is related to the sexual front on this topic, dealing with lust and self gratification.
This seems to be the impetus for this statement from the Catechism.
From a completely different angle, much of medical science today says that frequent ejaculation is a desirable situation for men as they grow older to maintain a healthy prostate.
How does this float for those that are past the child bearing years and consider it strictly from a physical health standpoint rather than a sexual gratification one.
Do the same guidelines apply?
I wonder?
The majority of these discussions generally seem to focus on the younger generations, and are more focused on self control and learning discipline/control over one’s emotions.
Does this take the concept of the discussion around sin in to a different realm?
These are questions that to me need to be discussed as intent and internal conscience as well as attitude all enter in to this.
I think this is also where we see many people using the “conscience” excuse to ignore/avoid many teachings such as ABC, but that is not the angle I am thinking.
Can one remove the “sexual gratification” aspect completely from the act? Can it be just physical release?
Thoughts?
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YosefYosep
Guest
The act itself is sinful, because it is a misuse and perversion of our holy life giving gift. Ejaculation does not constitute masturbation. Masturbation (according to the CCC) is deriving sexual pleasure out of the context of marriage with one’s self. It’s hard to break this habit. I suggest you pray to our Blessed Mother for purity and St.Michael for strength. Good luck!
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servusDei
Guest
Prior to me entering into the Church I was an addict to porn and masturbation. Now that I am received into the Church this problem has shown it’s ugly face again. I’m also quite scrupulous, I’ve tried going to confession once a week. Last time I went my confessor told me that it’s a natural thing that happens to us (the masturbation part, not the pornography part). He also told me to only go to confession once a month. Also my closest friends (both of whom are Catholic) told me I can’t trust my own examination that I do because of my scrupulous nature. Problem is I have fallen into porn and masturbation since my last confession. I kept telling them that I can’t receive because “I think I’m in mortal sin.”
I’ve always been told by them that if it is an addiction then it’s venial because for it to be mortal (you must know what you are doing, and fully consent to it as they put it saying “Lord I know this is going to hurt you but I rather have this then You.”
So with today I was questioning on weather to receive or not knowing this thing that has happened. I went and received. Now I am feeling absolutely sick of myself and I hate myself cause if my sin is mortal then I just added to that by receiving in a state of mortal sin. I haven’t felt this low in such a long time. When I told my friends this they said I am being prideful and to stop worrying. But I feel so overwhelmed, and I want to back to confession but I don’t want to disobey what my confessor said.
I’m really lost. Please help…Priest if possible (or someone who truly understands the teachings of Holy Mother Church).
I’ve always been told by them that if it is an addiction then it’s venial because for it to be mortal (you must know what you are doing, and fully consent to it as they put it saying “Lord I know this is going to hurt you but I rather have this then You.”
So with today I was questioning on weather to receive or not knowing this thing that has happened. I went and received. Now I am feeling absolutely sick of myself and I hate myself cause if my sin is mortal then I just added to that by receiving in a state of mortal sin. I haven’t felt this low in such a long time. When I told my friends this they said I am being prideful and to stop worrying. But I feel so overwhelmed, and I want to back to confession but I don’t want to disobey what my confessor said.
I’m really lost. Please help…Priest if possible (or someone who truly understands the teachings of Holy Mother Church).
J
Jeanne1184
Guest
Some sites that I found helpful:
passtheword.org/SHAKER-MANUSCRIPTS/Abstinence/shaker-abst-x1.htm
For the above website, maybe start at #59. “Take what you need and leave the rest.” I find bits and pieces that aid my Quest from many places.
passtheword.org/GOSPEL-REDISCOVERY/missing-gospel.htm
passtheword.org/GOSPEL-REDISCOVERY/Self-Denial/
“I am the owner of my shoulders, the tenant of my hips.” - Malcolm de Chazal
Gal. 5:16 - But I say, vwalk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. …just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
If one desires to make conscious contact with the Holy Spirit in Confession (Forgiveness is Divine and it comes from Within), sexual purity is needed. I’ve known many who made contrite confessions and didn’t find the experience of the Holy Spirit. When I asked why, the answer came, “Because I know they will return to their sin or other grave sins.” Regret, remorse and a heartfelt confession wasn’t enough. I had to turn away from the behavior and all things connected to it.
For sexual purity, I stopped watching regular TV and stick to Christian channels and the History channels. If I watch a basically non-sexual plot movie, I turn the channel for kissing/bed scenes. I don’t read the ‘news’ stories on yahoo.mail that contain sexual content (like who is wearing sexually explicit clothing headlines.)
I learned the process when I quit drinking through AA. I had to do the hard part first - commit to a new way of living by following the suggestions of others who had achieved the goal. Grace came on the scene after I put in the effort to prove to myself that I was actually serious (because I had bailed so many times before that even I didn’t know if I was serious or not). Once I found the ‘no matter what’ attitude, Grace appeared and helped me get fine-tuned or show me the way out in a new situation.
Grace is for all of us - even Vlad the Impaler experienced Grace. The Narrow Path of Christ is to experience conscious contact with the Holy Spirit. To know, from experience what the quote means, “Cultivate the garden of the nose and the eyes will take care of themselves.” Morality doesn’t count. Only Holiness does - guided from the inside-out.
Guard your eyes, ears and mouth. Cease with the sexual jokes and laughing at those others tell. If one feels convicted from within, confess the nature of sexual fantasies. The shame from the ones I had didn’t hit me until I first considered saying them out loud to another human being.
Christ says that if we’re intent on enjoying all the aversions/diversions to Him available in this testing world, then we’ll have no part in His.
Aslan/Nasal and I had our backs to each other while I was sinning. As I began to turn toward Him, however, He began to turn toward me. Synchronicities began to occur that aided my way forward. Life became very interesting. And then amazing.
“No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.” - 1 Cor 12:3.
Right Desire is very powerful.
passtheword.org/SHAKER-MANUSCRIPTS/Abstinence/shaker-abst-x1.htm
For the above website, maybe start at #59. “Take what you need and leave the rest.” I find bits and pieces that aid my Quest from many places.
passtheword.org/GOSPEL-REDISCOVERY/missing-gospel.htm
passtheword.org/GOSPEL-REDISCOVERY/Self-Denial/
“I am the owner of my shoulders, the tenant of my hips.” - Malcolm de Chazal
Gal. 5:16 - But I say, vwalk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. …just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
If one desires to make conscious contact with the Holy Spirit in Confession (Forgiveness is Divine and it comes from Within), sexual purity is needed. I’ve known many who made contrite confessions and didn’t find the experience of the Holy Spirit. When I asked why, the answer came, “Because I know they will return to their sin or other grave sins.” Regret, remorse and a heartfelt confession wasn’t enough. I had to turn away from the behavior and all things connected to it.
For sexual purity, I stopped watching regular TV and stick to Christian channels and the History channels. If I watch a basically non-sexual plot movie, I turn the channel for kissing/bed scenes. I don’t read the ‘news’ stories on yahoo.mail that contain sexual content (like who is wearing sexually explicit clothing headlines.)
I learned the process when I quit drinking through AA. I had to do the hard part first - commit to a new way of living by following the suggestions of others who had achieved the goal. Grace came on the scene after I put in the effort to prove to myself that I was actually serious (because I had bailed so many times before that even I didn’t know if I was serious or not). Once I found the ‘no matter what’ attitude, Grace appeared and helped me get fine-tuned or show me the way out in a new situation.
Grace is for all of us - even Vlad the Impaler experienced Grace. The Narrow Path of Christ is to experience conscious contact with the Holy Spirit. To know, from experience what the quote means, “Cultivate the garden of the nose and the eyes will take care of themselves.” Morality doesn’t count. Only Holiness does - guided from the inside-out.
Guard your eyes, ears and mouth. Cease with the sexual jokes and laughing at those others tell. If one feels convicted from within, confess the nature of sexual fantasies. The shame from the ones I had didn’t hit me until I first considered saying them out loud to another human being.
Christ says that if we’re intent on enjoying all the aversions/diversions to Him available in this testing world, then we’ll have no part in His.
Aslan/Nasal and I had our backs to each other while I was sinning. As I began to turn toward Him, however, He began to turn toward me. Synchronicities began to occur that aided my way forward. Life became very interesting. And then amazing.
“No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.” - 1 Cor 12:3.
Right Desire is very powerful.
S
Staying_Honest
Guest
Let me give some encouragement.
Your are not the only person that struggles with this issue. As for me I have been fortunate and blessed since my return to the Catholic Church to break the bonds of pornography, and say no to temptations that could lead me into worse.
My biggest struggle is loneliness which eventually leads to masturbation
I do the best I can…go to confession as needed
It’s a struggle and a journey…
Hang in there… and don’t abandon the teachings of the Catholic Church…or even worse The Eucharist
Your are not the only person that struggles with this issue. As for me I have been fortunate and blessed since my return to the Catholic Church to break the bonds of pornography, and say no to temptations that could lead me into worse.
My biggest struggle is loneliness which eventually leads to masturbation
I do the best I can…go to confession as needed
It’s a struggle and a journey…
Hang in there… and don’t abandon the teachings of the Catholic Church…or even worse The Eucharist
T
Tinkerbell49
Guest
I agree. But I have other questions re. this. OK The purpose of sex is to have kids, according to the Magisterium. So why is natural BC OK And why do old married folks still get to have sex? Also, what if you never got married through no fault of your own? There are a lot of us unmarried ladies out here, folks, percentage-wise. We never get to relieve our sexual tensions without fear of going to hell? Yet the married folks have a free go of it. Some of us single ladies even adopted kids, for heaven sakes. Wake up Magisterium. Jesus never said anything against masturbation. Where are you getting all this stuff?
PS I believe all the rest of the stuff the Magisterium teaches, except re women priests, priestly celebacy, and some of the stuff on gays. (It is NOT a choice) : I pray everyday and go to church twice a weak. So I’m not a bad catholic, I don’t think. OH, yeh, I am active in pro-life.
PS I believe all the rest of the stuff the Magisterium teaches, except re women priests, priestly celebacy, and some of the stuff on gays. (It is NOT a choice) : I pray everyday and go to church twice a weak. So I’m not a bad catholic, I don’t think. OH, yeh, I am active in pro-life.
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Jeanne1184
Guest
The Catholic Church used to have it correct according to the Bible - sex only for the prupose of procreation within marriage. That it would actually be a sacrifice to have to allow the body to engage in the sexual urge. And, if really full of Faith, that only if the Holy Spirit said to do so. Otherwise, I suspect Christ would ask that we adopt the children already here and remain chaste as brother/sister within marriage.
There can be a great deal of pride involved in ‘creating in my own image’ when making babies.
When I hear the argument against abortion that says “What if Beethoven had been aborted?” My answer: Then God would have raised up someone else - if, indeed, that particular music was something spriitually useful and not a diversion of the muses. Has it advanced the mission of Christ?
God isn’t worried about not having enough candidates to bestow His Mercy. Just a lack of those understaning how to receive. If I should turn back to hedonism tomorrow, God has others. It is I who would lose, not God.
As for being single and intentionally celibate, I too thought masturbation was the only logical solution to the problem. Until I was convicted by the Holy Spirit, that is. I had begun a spiritual path that was more interested in having God show me the real condition of my heart rather than allowing the enemy to ply me with spiritually deadening rationalizations.
It ain’t easy in the beginning, but with the Holy Spirit, the journey to “white as snow” is one I’m glad I didn’t miss.
There can be a great deal of pride involved in ‘creating in my own image’ when making babies.
When I hear the argument against abortion that says “What if Beethoven had been aborted?” My answer: Then God would have raised up someone else - if, indeed, that particular music was something spriitually useful and not a diversion of the muses. Has it advanced the mission of Christ?
God isn’t worried about not having enough candidates to bestow His Mercy. Just a lack of those understaning how to receive. If I should turn back to hedonism tomorrow, God has others. It is I who would lose, not God.
As for being single and intentionally celibate, I too thought masturbation was the only logical solution to the problem. Until I was convicted by the Holy Spirit, that is. I had begun a spiritual path that was more interested in having God show me the real condition of my heart rather than allowing the enemy to ply me with spiritually deadening rationalizations.
It ain’t easy in the beginning, but with the Holy Spirit, the journey to “white as snow” is one I’m glad I didn’t miss.
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Tinkerbell49
Guest
Your response is not very clear.
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Phil_Marinus
Guest
Code:
AAHHHHHH......
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ccmnxc
Guest
I am so tempted to fisk, but I will refrain.
You say that according to the Magisterium, the purpose of sex is to have kids. I’m not sure this is the whole picture, as in exclusively having kids. If it is, could you please cite a Catechism verse? Also, what do you mean by “natural BC?” I think contraceptives of all kind are no-no’s. Old married folks can have sex, being open to new life (they don’t get birth control either). They must still practice purity in marriage. It isn’t like all of the rules all of a sudden stop applying. As far as relieving sexual tensions w/o going to hell, all I have to say is that I (and the Church) don’t make the rules. If you have a problem, take it up with the Big Man upstairs. I see the “Jesus didn’t condemn…” argument, and, to be honest, if baffles me. It seems like a fallacious argument from silence. Especially considering the Gospel of John says that the Bible doesn’t record all Jesus said. You say you are an avid pro-lifer, but using your logic, I could completely undermine your position by saying Jesus didn’t talk about abortion. Obviously, you don’t find it all that good of an argument either. And then there’s this:
I honestly don’t know what to tell you. While priestly celibacy is a discipline (and one that makes quite a bit of sense), that whole woman priest thing as well as moral teaching on homosexuals are infallibly defined under faith and morals. If you reject these, you reject the Church’s infallibility, rendering us useless with the added bonus of extreme arrogance. Rejecting these things basically undermines the entire faith you claim to hold.
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Tinkerbell49
Guest
The disciplines of the Church can be changed. Also, as time goes on we learn more through science and psychological observations. The Church needs to be aware. We used to think, for example, that the sun traveled around the earth and even that slavery was OK. Re. women priests, I think that is a discipline, also. Re gays, even the church acknowledges that being gay is not a choice. So I think it is unreasonable to say that they can never have sex. What kind of a God would give them a powerful urge and then tell them to go to Hell if they act on it?
Oh, my, how can you compare abortion and masturbation? True, Jesus didn’t say anything about abortion per say, but He did say to keep the commandments, which includes the 5th, “Thou shalt not Kill.” Also, He loved the little children. To tell you the truth, I don’t think I can be a good catholic and Christian unless I actively work in pro-life.
Oh, my, how can you compare abortion and masturbation? True, Jesus didn’t say anything about abortion per say, but He did say to keep the commandments, which includes the 5th, “Thou shalt not Kill.” Also, He loved the little children. To tell you the truth, I don’t think I can be a good catholic and Christian unless I actively work in pro-life.
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ccmnxc
Guest
I can’t resist fisking this time. Forgive me.
I agree. I just don’t think all the things you listed were disciplines.
I am assuming this is in relation to homosexuals not choosing their orientation. Personally, I don’t believe they do either. You seem to be implying that the Church does, however. Could you cite the CCC passage that says this?
While geocentricism was the science of the time, I am curious about your comment on slavery. When did the Church as a teaching authority say slavery was okay. Also, I think we need to make distinctions from indentured servitude (the “slavery” of the Bible) and slavery like us modern Americans would think of.
Here’s my point though. It isn’t up to us whether or not it is reasonable to say homosexuals cannot have sex with each other. God does not owe anybody anything, including the right to have sex with the person one is attracted to. Furthermore, as I stated earlier, the Church’s teaching on homosexual actions is a moral teaching and, therefore, infallible. To reject the teaching is to reject infallibility is to make the Church worthless.
A couple points. One, having an unnatural (as in, its relation to natural law) sexual desires is an opportunity for one to become dependent on God. This is much like the problem of suffering. Also, like I said earlier, God owes them nothing, including having sex with whom they want. We all have our vices, so I’m not so sure what makes homosexuality so special. You may as well ask God why He created sinners.
My point was less to liken abortion and masturbation (both mortal sins, though), but to show how the same logic could be applied in different situations, being equally valid. You are right that Jesus subscribed to Jewish Law as well. One can make multiple inductive searches to find certain teachings. For mine, I could bring things up like Onan, or Jesus talking about lust is adultery in the heart (and lust is part of the package when talking about masturbation), or even not coveting a neighbor’s wife (thinking of another in sexual terms).
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dshix
Guest
Very good answer. I support this fully.
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Thankatroop12
Guest
I don’t know how to answer it but I suggest starting a new thread.Prior to me entering into the Church I was an addict to porn and masturbation. Now that I am received into the Church this problem has shown it’s ugly face again. I’m also quite scrupulous, I’ve tried going to confession once a week. Last time I went my confessor told me that it’s a natural thing that happens to us (the masturbation part, not the pornography part). He also told me to only go to confession once a month. Also my closest friends (both of whom are Catholic) told me I can’t trust my own examination that I do because of my scrupulous nature. Problem is I have fallen into porn and masturbation since my last confession. I kept telling them that I can’t receive because “I think I’m in mortal sin.”
I’ve always been told by them that if it is an addiction then it’s venial because for it to be mortal (you must know what you are doing, and fully consent to it as they put it saying “Lord I know this is going to hurt you but I rather have this then You.”
So with today I was questioning on weather to receive or not knowing this thing that has happened. I went and received. Now I am feeling absolutely sick of myself and I hate myself cause if my sin is mortal then I just added to that by receiving in a state of mortal sin. I haven’t felt this low in such a long time. When I told my friends this they said I am being prideful and to stop worrying. But I feel so overwhelmed, and I want to back to confession but I don’t want to disobey what my confessor said.
I’m really lost. Please help…Priest if possible (or someone who truly understands the teachings of Holy Mother Church).
P
Phil_Marinus
Guest
Prior to me entering into the Church I was an addict to porn and masturbation. Now that I am received into the Church this problem has shown it’s ugly face again. I’m also quite scrupulous, I’ve tried going to confession once a week. Last time I went my confessor told me that it’s a natural thing that happens to us (the masturbation part, not the pornography part). He also told me to only go to confession once a month. Also my closest friends (both of whom are Catholic) told me I can’t trust my own examination that I do because of my scrupulous nature. Problem is I have fallen into porn and masturbation since my last confession. I kept telling them that I can’t receive because “I think I’m in mortal sin.”
I’ve always been told by them that if it is an addiction then it’s venial because for it to be mortal (you must know what you are doing, and fully consent to it as they put it saying “Lord I know this is going to hurt you but I rather have this then You.”
So with today I was questioning on weather to receive or not knowing this thing that has happened. I went and received. Now I am feeling absolutely sick of myself and I hate myself cause if my sin is mortal then I just added to that by receiving in a state of mortal sin. I haven’t felt this low in such a long time. When I told my friends this they said I am being prideful and to stop worrying. But I feel so overwhelmed, and I want to back to confession but I don’t want to disobey what my confessor said.
I’m really lost. Please help…Priest if possible (or someone who truly understands the teachings of Holy Mother Church).
Code:
We can as Christians look to deeply into our own being.... God know what we as humble silly fools are going through...... Yes it is good to examine our own actions and Thoughts..... to reflect on our own being is a good thing.... what it does it shows spiritual maturity .... yes we can be overwhelmed by our own shortcomings , our own faults as humans..... I have more than my share as well......The Spirit is strong but the Flesh is weak… yep thats so true… but you know what ?
Your here… here on catholic answers… which is good… because if you are a Gambler, the worst thing you can do is hang around Gamblers, same with drugs,alcohol ,
any bad deed… you are searching for something better,to better yourself and the people around you, thats why your here, so when you feel a temptation, like going to porn sites,come here and ask question,answer questions, even debate people and see if you get an infraction… I have one for upsetting some clown…
Good luck.....
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arnold53
Guest
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Tinkerbell49
Guest
I love your response! The only thing is, I grew up thinking the big M was a venial sin. Now, all of a sudden the catholiuc catechism comes out and says it’s a mortal sin, like murder, etc. None of the priests or nuns ever told me it was a mortal sin, but now all of a sudden you can go to Hell for it. I think this may be why so many young people have left the church. How can they keep a tough rule like this? And this is serious.
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