Masturbation question

[storm807]

What are your views on if masturbation is a sin or not?
Heard this debate being preached on a radio station this morning.

Please,its a question not a reason to hang me because at some time we have done it or have thought about it! remember those teenage years, yeah, I thought so! LOL!

 

[storm807]

Thank you for your respectful reply!

 

[dylanschrader]

From Persona Humana:

The traditional Catholic doctrine that masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder is often called into doubt or expressly denied today. It is said that psychology and sociology show that it is a normal phenomenon of sexual development, especially among the young. It is stated that there is real and serious fault only in the measure that the subject deliberately indulges in solitary pleasure closed in on self (“ipsation”), because in this case the act would indeed be radically opposed to the loving communion between persons of different sex which some hold is what is principally sought in the use of the sexual faculty.

This opinion is contradictory to the teaching and pastoral practice of the Catholic Church. Whatever the force of certain arguments of a biological and philosophical nature, which have sometimes been used by theologians, in fact both the Magisterium of the Church - in the course of a constant tradition - and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.[19] The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.”[20] All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship. Even if it cannot be proved that Scripture condemns this sin by name, the tradition of the Church has rightly understood it to be condemned in the New Testament when the latter speaks of “impurity,” “unchasteness” and other vices contrary to chastity and continence.

Sociological surveys are able to show the frequency of this disorder according to the places, populations or circumstances studied. In this way facts are discovered, but facts do not constitute a criterion for judging the moral value of human acts.[21] The frequency of the phenomenon in question is certainly to be linked with man’s innate weakness following original sin; but it is also to be linked with the loss of a sense of God, with the corruption of morals engendered by the commercialization of vice, with the unrestrained licentiousness of so many public entertainments and publications, as well as with the neglect of modesty, which is the guardian of chastity.

On the subject of masturbation modern psychology provides much valid and useful information for formulating a more equitable judgment on moral responsibility and for orienting pastoral action. Psychology helps one to see how the immaturity of adolescence (which can sometimes persist after that age), psychological imbalance or habit can influence behavior, diminishing the deliberate character of the act and bringing about a situation whereby subjectively there may not always be serious fault. But in general, the absence of serious responsibility must not be presumed; this would be to misunderstand people’s moral capacity.

In the pastoral ministry, in order to form an adequate judgment in concrete cases, the habitual behavior of people will be considered in its totality, not only with regard to the individual’s practice of charity and of justice but also with regard to the individual’s care in observing the particular precepts of chastity. In particular, one will have to examine whether the individual is using the necessary means, both natural and supernatural, which Christian asceticism from its long experience recommends for overcoming the passions and progressing in virtue.

 

[storm807]

wow!

 

[Hellisreal]

wow!

I knew you would like the Catholic faith.

Impressive huh?

 

[storm807]

I knew you would like the Catholic faith.

Impressive huh?

LOL!!! yeah!
How are you today?

 

[Hellisreal]

LOL!!! yeah!
How are you today?

Pretty good thanks! I think my “better half” was horsing around on the computer last night pretending to be me posting here!

I saw a ton of e-mail responses to some threads I never saw and they were very odd. In one, I claim I give up on the bible and all sorts of silly things.

I better change my password today. At least he was not uncharitable to anyone but just silly.

How are you?

 

[storm807]

Pretty good thanks! I think my “better half” was horsing around on the computer last night pretending to be me posting here!

I saw a ton of e-mail responses to some threads I never saw and they were very odd. In one, I claim I give up on the bible and all sorts of silly things.

I better change my password today. At least he was not uncharitable to anyone but just silly.

How are you?

I m fine myself! I see that your better half is having some fun on your behalf, shame on him!LOL!

Today i sa better day with post no one has trashed me yet and im happy!!

This topic is also a demon of mine that I am getting a handle of.

 

[Hellisreal]

I m fine myself! I see that your better half is having some fun on your behalf, shame on him!LOL!

Today i sa better day with post no one has trashed me yet and im happy!!

This topic is also a demon of mine that I am getting a handle of.

Demons eh? I think you came to the right place. The Catholic Church has more experience on excorcism than any other.

All kidding aside, I hope you get the strength to tackle all things that seperate you from the life you are called to be. A saint.

 

[storm807]

Demons eh? I think you came to the right place. The Catholic Church has more experience on excorcism than any other.

All kidding aside, I hope you get the strength to tackle all things that seperate you from the life you are called to be. A saint.

Thanks!!!

 

[joylazarus]

Masturbation goes with lust hand in hand… God looks at your heart… He sees what is going through your mind more than what you are doing physically… “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Mathew 5:28. This version should explain why masturbation is a sin. Hope this reply helps. God Bless!

 

[tjm190]

Masturbation goes with lust hand in hand… God looks at your heart… He sees what is going through your mind more than what you are doing physically… “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Mathew 5:28. This version should explain why masturbation is a sin. Hope this reply helps. God Bless!

Masturbation≠Lust. Just because some acts of masturbation involve lust does not mean that they “go hand in hand.”

I think we have to consider two things- what our bodies tell us and what God tells us in scripture. I personally can say that when I hit that age, my body started giving me what I would call whispers. I would ignore them, because I accepted the Church teaching despite disagreeing with it. However, over time the whispers became urges, and the urges became demands. From time to time my body would get tired of waiting for me to satisfy it and do so on it’s own through nocturnal emission. This continued on for quite awhile in what was probably the worst self imposed period of suffering I’ve forced myself to endure. The biggest problem, for me, was the effect this had on my ability to think. Ever heard of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs? It basically breaks down all aspects of human desire in places them into groups, often represented as a pyramid. Physiological needs, such as the libido, are at the very base of the pyramid- higher reasoning functions are at the top. As such, my ability to think, understand, and comprehend were so far bellow what I had become used to that I asked myself whether or not it was worth forcing myself into that existence for a teaching I disagreed with- and the answer was no. There was no lust involved in that decision, just the fulfillment of a natural urge.

Now- onto God’s take. We can assume that the human libido was no less strong during biblical times- apparently, getting to “know” each other was quite a common event. As such, the urge to relieve one’s self would have been just as strong. Now just because there is an urge does not mean “Do it!”. I acknowledge that: vengeance, greed, and gluttony are all natural urges as well- however, for the urges we were not supposed to fulfill God said “hey, don’t do this!” in scripture, albeit in different terms. Leviticus condemns every sexual offense from homosexuality to bestiality, with no mention of masturbation. So we have an urge that God seems to have specifically excluded from condemnation. To me, that sounds like tacit approval- making masturbation an amoral act.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

It doesn’t mention it? Ever heard of Onan? Also, just because it isn’t specifically mentioned in the bible doesn’t always mean it isn’t a sin. The bible references the “traditions of the apostles”.

And finally, ask yourself this: Would Jesus approve of it?

 

[tjm190]

It doesn’t mention it? Ever heard of Onan? Also, just because it isn’t specifically mentioned in the bible doesn’t always mean it isn’t a sin. The bible references the “traditions of the apostles”.

And finally, ask yourself this: Would Jesus approve of it?

Onan. Was. Not. Masturbating.
And you seem to have ignored my entire post aside from the parts you know how to regurgitate rebuttals for.

Just because it’s not in the bible doesn’t make it unsinful, this is true. However, there are thousands of laws in Leviticus, several pertaining to this “genre” (sexuality)- can you think of a logical reason for masturbation to be excluded, aside from my assertion that is isn’t sinful?

I don’t presume to know what Jesus’s thoughts on any matter would be aside from my knowledge of Him that I have gained through the gospels. Perhaps you should do the same.

 

[chaz0426]

Masturbation≠Lust. Just because some acts of masturbation involve lust does not mean that they “go hand in hand.”

I think we have to consider two things- what our bodies tell us and what God tells us in scripture. I personally can say that when I hit that age, my body started giving me what I would call whispers. I would ignore them, because I accepted the Church teaching despite disagreeing with it. However, over time the whispers became urges, and the urges became demands. From time to time my body would get tired of waiting for me to satisfy it and do so on it’s own through nocturnal emission. This continued on for quite awhile in what was probably the worst self imposed period of suffering I’ve forced myself to endure. The biggest problem, for me, was the effect this had on my ability to think. Ever heard of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs? It basically breaks down all aspects of human desire in places them into groups, often represented as a pyramid. Physiological needs, such as the libido, are at the very base of the pyramid- higher reasoning functions are at the top. As such, my ability to think, understand, and comprehend were so far bellow what I had become used to that I asked myself whether or not it was worth forcing myself into that existence for a teaching I disagreed with- and the answer was no. There was no lust involved in that decision, just the fulfillment of a natural urge.

Now- onto God’s take. We can assume that the human libido was no less strong during biblical times- apparently, getting to “know” each other was quite a common event. As such, the urge to relieve one’s self would have been just as strong. Now just because there is an urge does not mean “Do it!”. I acknowledge that: vengeance, greed, and gluttony are all natural urges as well- however, for the urges we were not supposed to fulfill God said “hey, don’t do this!” in scripture, albeit in different terms. Leviticus condemns every sexual offense from homosexuality to bestiality, with no mention of masturbation. So we have an urge that God seems to have specifically excluded from condemnation. To me, that sounds like tacit approval- making masturbation an amoral act.

To add to that, what about erotic dreams that you simply have no way of controlling? The Church says that is not even a venial sin since you can’t control what happens in your sleep.

I just thought though, going by that same argument isn’t it still lust? Just because we bury it in our subconscious during the day and it comes out at night doesn’t mean it’s not lust. Following the same argument as Masturbation = mortal sin, I’d say lustful dreams controlled or not are sinful as well. Human libido = mortal sin?

Just playing devils advocate on that one.

Human libido is actually a good thing, without it we’d have no desire to procreate as God intended. However we often don’t use it in the ways as God intended. I believe that is how it is sinful. As to whether it is mortal or venial has always gave me pause, I think it depends on the situation, state of mind, overwhelming temptation, addiction ect. In either case go to confession but I don’t think if you died before confession you’d go to hell in all cases. Many of us acquired the habit as young teenagers before we even knew it was wrong or what it was and it is very hard to break afterwards. I wish my catechism had said something to me before I hit puberty and I would have been aware of it. I didn’t know it was wrong until 16 or 17!

Instead of condemning it and scorning those, I think we need to focus more on educating younger kids before or during puberty so it becomes less of an acquired habit and further issue for them later in life.

 

[ditch]

It’s a normal, healthy thing that ALL human beings do - period! If you have any questions, talk with your doctor - not your church. To make someone feel bad for being human is unthinkable. When you surpress something like this it can manifest itself into something horrible. And as we’ve seen in the last couple of decades, there has been a huge problem with priest molesting alter boys. Trying to control the masses the way the catholic church does is a way worse sin. Harming a child, hiding behind God is the ultimate sin!

 

[renepape]

It’s a normal, healthy thing that ALL human beings do - period! If you have any questions, talk with your doctor - not your church. To make someone feel bad for being human is unthinkable. When you surpress something like this it can manifest itself into something horrible. And as we’ve seen in the last couple of decades, there has been a huge problem with priest molesting alter boys. Trying to control the masses the way the catholic church does is a way worse sin. Harming a child, hiding behind God is the ultimate sin!

Seriously, “Ditch” I don’t know where you are getting all this. It is not true that if you suppress this it will manifest itself into something horrible. Nocturnal emissions are natural ways of releasing sexual tension. Masturbation is an extremely selfish act that we do just because we want to feel good. We abuse our own bodies by masturbating. In fact, masturbation can cause even worse problems later on, in marriage or elsewhere. By masturbating we are indulging our every human passion and lust, and are being like animals. But we are human, and humans are better than that.

While some priests have committed these truly horrible sins of molestation, this is entirely irrelevant to the question. If we don’t masturbate, it doesn’t mean we will molest little boys. Believe me, I used to masturbate a lot and didn’t really know how else to relieve this sexual tension, but I have asked God for His help and have been able to overcome this horrible sin.

 

[surritter]

Renepape is right on. Here’s another way to explain the moral status of masturbation:

The sexual act is designed by God for two purposes (or “ends”). One is for two people to exclusively share a special love (sometimes called the “unitive aspect” of sex). The other purpose is to keep the human species going (sometimes called the “procreative aspect” of sex).

These two aspects cannot be intentionally separated. This is why contraception is immoral (intentionally shutting out the procreative aspect).

Masturbation fails on both scores – it is not procreative and it is not unitive. While pleasurable, it is selfish, and a misuse of the sex act.

As stated in earlier posts, this is the objective viewpoint. Each person’s culpability is dependent on other factors besides the objective facts. But that’s for a confessor to assess with the person…

Hope that helps!

 

[tjm190]

Hate to potentially spark debate, but there’s an enormous difference between doing something to fulfill a powerful urge and doing something for pleasure

 

[surritter]

That’s why I was careful to point out that the act of masturbation is objectively sinful. The urge is not license to perform the act, as we are humans and have an intellect and will.

But if one is weak in withstanding these urges, that’s where a priest can tell someone that their sin may not be serious. But the priest should counsel the person on how to gradually build up fortitude to avoid falling.