Masturbation...why?

[pensmama87]

Not sure what drugs you refer to in the “recreational” category. I know therapeutic drugs such as Viagra don’t / can’t substitute for sexual stimulation. That is required a priori, and the drug just facilitates improved blood flow. This may enable sexual intercourse by men otherwise unable to maintain erection. It may also contribute to a curative / re-learning process for men who have suffered an injury or surgical damage to the relevant nerves etc.

I don’t dispute any of the above, but there are men (and women) who use Viagra and similar drugs recreationally without any of the above. They lie to doctors to get prescriptions or they obtain them using any other of the methods used to get prescription drugs. Supposedly they “improve” sex even if there is not dysfunction. I dunno, I haven’t tried it, and I don’t want to.

That was the distinction I was making. Restoring healthy sexual functioning with medication is of course licit.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I don’t dispute any of the above, but there are men (and women) who use Viagra and similar drugs recreationally without any of the above. They lie to doctors to get prescriptions or they obtain them using any other of the methods used to get prescription drugs. Supposedly they “improve” sex even if there is not dysfunction. I dunno, I haven’t tried it, and I don’t want to.

That was the distinction I was making. Restoring healthy sexual functioning with medication is of course licit.

Yes I agree. Viagra and similar drugs are very often used recreationally.

 

[billcu1]

I’m sorry, but most men who are targeted for using Viagra do not have some penis injury. They simply want to be able to “get it up” in their sex lives. If a man is too old or not really in love and procreative, forget about it. Old men should do other things.

I’ve seen too many old men in their seventies and such flurt with young women. I know they (the women) don’t like it. There’s something wrong there. I’m 45 and I like younger women 20-45 but that’s just not going to happen. And I can’t take care of myself (financially) much less anyone else. So I don’t date. No reason to.
But anyway I definately agree here "Old men should do other things." Like counsel and advise with their experience younger people. :)

 

[billcu1]

But why would people want to imitate an ape?
Isn’t there something backward and perverse about that?

Seems like it’s becoming the “politically correct” thing to do. With all this LGBT stuff. I don’t call it “progressive” as much as “regressive” but since when did man know right from wrong being in sin.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Seems like it’s becoming the “politically correct” thing to do. With all this LGBT stuff. I don’t call it “progressive” as much as “regressive” but since when did man know right from wrong being in sin.

Amen! why are people so lame these days? What is wrong with people? They buy into all this sexual nonsense and there goes their reason! It’s absolutely crazy.

 

[lileli]

It saddens me that Church creates such guilt and shame around normal biologically healthy acts. Yes, anything in excess can be bad, for even water kills in large amounts. Masturbation is common among our closet animal relatives and other higher order thinking mammals. There is nothing evil about it. In excess anything is evil and can lead to horrible consequences but this isn’t the case for most people.

 

[Elizium23]

It saddens me that Church creates such guilt and shame

The Church is not in the business of creating guilt and shame, the Church is in the business of offering mercy and redemption to all the baptized. Notice the lack of guilt and shame in the celebration of the sacraments. Notice the healing and cleansing brought by the Sacrament of Penance. Notice the remission of sins and spiritual nourishment from worthy reception of the Eucharist.

Christ came not to bring guilt and shame but to pay the price for our sins. He did so, and He founded the Church to carry on His mission on Earth until He comes again in glory. And the Church will do so, with or without you.

 

[lileli]

The Church is not in the business of creating guilt and shame, the Church is in the business of offering mercy and redemption to all the baptized. Notice the lack of guilt and shame in the celebration of the sacraments. Notice the healing and cleansing brought by the Sacrament of Penance. Notice the remission of sins and spiritual nourishment from worthy reception of the Eucharist.

Christ came not to bring guilt and shame but to pay the price for our sins. He did so, and He founded the Church to carry on His mission on Earth until He comes again in glory. And the Church will do so, with or without you.

I am not sure why you including with or without me. Anyway, while many priests no longer preach in a hell and evil type of way, many of them used to do so. I remember in CCD being told that every time we masturbation an abortion happens! I mean they really pounded on the guilt. I don’t agree that masturbation is mortal sin. I do agree with most of what you posted and sacraments are truly wonderful.

 

[Rau]

It saddens me that Church creates such guilt and shame around normal biologically healthy acts. Yes, anything in excess can be bad, for even water kills in large amounts. Masturbation is common among our closet animal relatives and other higher order thinking mammals. There is nothing evil about it. In excess anything is evil and can lead to horrible consequences but this isn’t the case for most people.

These are your personal thoughts on the matter.

Scripture tells us God found Onan’s act (of “withdrawal”) to be wicked. Do you see that act as morally so different from masturbation?

Every person who argues that same sex sexual acts are good and proper also argues that masturbation is good and proper. They often point to the animal kingdom too.

Some animals eat their young, and I agree with you that there is nothing evil about that, except when a person eats their child. Then it’s evil.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

These are your personal thoughts on the matter.

Scripture tells us God found Onan’s act (of “withdrawal”) to be wicked. Do you see that act as morally so different from masturbation?

Every person who argues that same sex sexual acts are good and proper also argues that masturbation is good and proper. They often point to the animal kingdom too.

Some animals eat their young, and I agree with you that there is nothing evil about that, except when a person eats their child. Then it’s evil.

Amen Rau!

 

[lileli]

These are your personal thoughts on the matter.

Scripture tells us God found Onan’s act (of “withdrawal”) to be wicked. Do you see that act as morally so different from masturbation?

Every person who argues that same sex sexual acts are good and proper also argues that masturbation is good and proper. They often point to the animal kingdom too.

Some animals eat their young, and I agree with you that there is nothing evil about that, except when a person eats their child. Then it’s evil.

Some animals eat their young because it is their instinct to do so meaning God made them that way. God also programmed some animals to only have sex or sexual desires during certain moments but the lord didnt do the same for us. The passages that supposedly damn masturbation most be looked at from a historical context. Considering that even incest in the old testament is allowed at times it is impossible to keep up with its sexual prescriptions. The Hebrew tribe was very interested in increasing its numbers and wanted to do so for survival reasons, which of course makes sense. The passage was not a damnation of every boy who ever masturbated. I believe the Church is in error on this one.

 

[Thorolfr]

Scripture tells us God found Onan’s act (of “withdrawal”) to be wicked.

Was it Onan’s withdrawal that God found wicked or the fact that Onan apparently did not want to impregnate his sister-in-law and thereby fulfill his responsibility of providing offspring to his deceased brother’s household (i.e. levirate marriage)?

 

[Rau]

… The passage (Onan) was not a damnation of every boy who ever masturbated. I believe the Church is in error on this one.

Lileli - Animals are not subject to moral expectations. God will not be judging them. People, on the other hand, do not get a free pass by acting on instinct, inclination or desire. People are capable of choosing to reject these when morality demands it.

You believe the church is in error on many items! You MUST conclude masturbation is good and healthy to remain consistent with your position that same sex sexual acts are good.

No person is damned, certainly not by the Church. Damnation is entirely a matter for God. But morality is not relative. Culpability is relative - but this is exclusively God’s domain.

 

[Elizium23]

Modernism is popular in these forums today.

Aw, it’s popular every day.

 

[lileli]

Lileli - Animals are not subject to moral expectations. God will not be judging them. People, on the other hand, do not get a free pass by acting on instinct, inclination or desire. People are capable of choosing to reject these when morality demands it.

You believe the church is in error on many items! You MUST conclude masturbation is good and healthy to remain consistent with your position that same sex sexual acts are good.

No person is damned, certainly not by the Church. Damnation is entirely a matter for God. But morality is not relative. Culpability is relative - but this is exclusively God’s domain.

I am not sure what my support for gay marriage has to do with this one.

 

[lileli]

Was it Onan’s withdrawal that God found wicked or the fact that Onan apparently did not want to impregnate his sister-in-law and thereby fulfill his responsibility of providing offspring to his deceased brother’s household (i.e. levirate marriage)?

a practice that would seem very strange in today’s Church!

 

[Rau]

Was it Onan’s withdrawal that God found wicked or the fact that Onan apparently did not want to impregnate his sister-in-law and thereby fulfill his responsibility of providing offspring to his deceased brother’s household (i.e. levirate marriage)?

Scripture says it is what Onan DID that God found objectionable, not that he declined the levirate marriage. We learn elsewhere in Scripture that the punishment for declining said marriage was “mere” humiliation in public. God killed Onan.

 

[Rau]

I am not sure what my support for gay marriage has to do with this one.

Marriage is a sexual union, and sexual acts between two persons of the same sex are indistinguishable from mutual masturbation.

 

[lileli]

Marriage is a sexual union, and sexual acts between two persons of the same sex are indistinguishable from mutual masturbation.

Not in my book.

 

[Rau]

Not in my book.

Modernism is indeed grand!!