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kvj888
Guest
can masturbation without impure thoughts a mortal sin?
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
It’s still an offense against chastity so yes it is still a mortal sin
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fermat
Guest
Yes. Masturbation itself in a disordered act. Your thoughts, or lack there of, are not what it sinful (though they could contribute).
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Balian
Guest
Masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action whether or not impure thoughts (lust) is involved. The reason that masturbation is a sin is because it is the pursuit of sexual pleasure outside of marriage which is contrary to the purpose of the sexual faculty. In and of itself it is sinful for the same reason that lust is sinful so the lack of impure thoughts simply means a person engaging in it commits one sin rather than two.
Masturbation is considered a grave matter and when committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent it is a mortal sin. However, according the Catechism moral responsibility of the individual might be lessened by factors like immaturity, force of an acquired habit or some serious psychological factor. In such a case, masturbation might then be a venial sin rather than a mortal sin because not all three elements are necessary for it to be mortal.
Typically, as others observed, it is a mortal sin since as stated it is by definition wrong, a grave matter, and usually done with the full knowledge that it is wrong by intent.
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Sonic
Guest
Kvj888, your question shows you possibly do not have an understanding of the meaning of the word masturbation. It’s not uncommon. That’s why we have the CCC to guide us.
First let’s look at what the CCC says:
Using a bit of logic…
It is impossible to masturbate and not have impure thoughts. Masturbation describes a deliberate action to derive pleasure that is inspired by the sin of lust (usually starting with lustful thoughts). Any action outside that definition is not masturbation. If this is the case, then a person should seek pastoral care from a spiritual adviser to help them figure out what is happening.
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Bookcat
Guest
yes it is still grave matter for mortal sin.
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thistle
Guest
There is no such thing as masturbation without impure thoughts.
Anyone who tells you that is likely trying to justfy sinning.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Forget about mortal sins. There is no mortal-sin-meter.
Tou agree that this is not the best sex approach.
God agrees that it was not where the poor spermatozoa should end its short lifespan.
You had no female image in your mind (impure? thoughts). Well, I think it was a pure animal urge and impulse. That was it. If you are follwoing your way of thought, no thoughts, no human interference, animal thing only, so no sin. An you thought that you escape with that. Animals do that too, but they are animals.
We are human, with a Spirit and created at the image of God, we are “gods”, with the grace of God inside us.
So, though we are the worse sinners, we should always strive for perfection as the best of the saints.
Go for it, fight for it, I pray for you.
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Aaron1988
Guest
I think it would still be a sin whether you are thinking lustful thoughts or not because you cannot procreate from it and all sexual contact should be with your wife after you are married and in a way that can create life.
I think if someone says they are doing it without thinking lustful thoughts they are just trying to make excuses as to why they should be able to do it. It can however be a sin to varying degrees in that if it was a habit, or you didn’t know it was a sin etc then it wouldn’t be as bad, if that makes sense. I do understand that it can be a habit but what I dont understand is why people think they can put their sexual pleasure before god, and their (future) wife. I know how hard a habit it can be to break having previously been aetheist I didn’t know it was a sin, but I still comitted this sin and I accept full responsibility for my sins, as I comitted them. Breaking a habit is hard but it can be done, through willpower and when you feel that’s going to fail then pray for help in resisting temptation, that’s how I did/am doing it and I have been compleately chaste since I found god on the 1st of October 2011.
God loves you and if you ask for his help in overcoming this then he will help you, remember: ask and you shall receive.
-Aaron
I think if someone says they are doing it without thinking lustful thoughts they are just trying to make excuses as to why they should be able to do it. It can however be a sin to varying degrees in that if it was a habit, or you didn’t know it was a sin etc then it wouldn’t be as bad, if that makes sense. I do understand that it can be a habit but what I dont understand is why people think they can put their sexual pleasure before god, and their (future) wife. I know how hard a habit it can be to break having previously been aetheist I didn’t know it was a sin, but I still comitted this sin and I accept full responsibility for my sins, as I comitted them. Breaking a habit is hard but it can be done, through willpower and when you feel that’s going to fail then pray for help in resisting temptation, that’s how I did/am doing it and I have been compleately chaste since I found god on the 1st of October 2011.
God loves you and if you ask for his help in overcoming this then he will help you, remember: ask and you shall receive.
-Aaron
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Are you speaking based on personal experience, just rationalizing, or do you have some sort of psychological evidence.
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Joe_5859
Guest
As most of the other posters have pointed out, yes it is still an intrinsically gravely disordered act, regardless of your thoughts while doing it.
I’ve said this before when this question has come up, but I think it would disturb me more so if someone was masturbating without impure thoughts. There is at least some sort of natural connection between masturbation (stimulating the sexual organs) and lust (a disordered sexual desire for another). If someone is capable of divorcing the act of masturbation from any connection to sexual thoughts, I would have to wonder if they have sociopathic tendencies. It is frightening to me that someone might be able to completely mentally disconnect a sexual act from sexual thoughts.
I’ve said this before when this question has come up, but I think it would disturb me more so if someone was masturbating without impure thoughts. There is at least some sort of natural connection between masturbation (stimulating the sexual organs) and lust (a disordered sexual desire for another). If someone is capable of divorcing the act of masturbation from any connection to sexual thoughts, I would have to wonder if they have sociopathic tendencies. It is frightening to me that someone might be able to completely mentally disconnect a sexual act from sexual thoughts.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It happens with children before they are aware of the connection between genital stimulation and sexual relations. I don’t think they are sociopaths.
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Mikhowl
Guest
this I must disagree with. some people just enjoy the feeling of it, with a completely clear mind, thinking of nothing.
as for the sinful part of it… I cannot answer because I am still searching for answers myself
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Sonic
Guest
It’s the willed desire for pleasure that makes it sinful and not the action. As has been pointed out in the catechism…
There is a reason why the definition of lust is stated before the description of masturbation. The definition of lust sets the context of all the sexual actions stated underneath it in the CCC. It doesn’t matter if the person is thinking of someone or not. It’s the desire for sexual pleasure outside of marriage that makes it a sin. Choosing to masturbate is an act of the will and not an action of the imagination.
With that said, sometimes mental conditions can cause people to manipulate their sexual organs without the desire for pleasure and sometimes such manipulation can cause the person mental and physical pain and anguish. This is usually an involuntary obsessive/ compulsive action as opposed to a deliberate action.
Masturbation defines a deliberate action sought for pleasure.
Edit:
@ Everyone reading…
Check out the New Catholic Encyclopedia article on the subject of masturbation for more information (particularly on the subject of pastoral care and involuntary compulsive actions pertaining to the last paragraph of section 2352 of the CCC).
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Mikhowl
Guest
I’m sorry, but since when has pleasure been called a sin? seems very olden day, protestant-like thinking… like in The Crucible…
is a hug wrong? is a massage wrong? they both feel good, and pleasurable. well, what’s the difference? not trying to start any conflict, but I don’t understand…?
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Sonic
Guest
Wow! Talk about taking a post completely out of context. Did you actually read the CCC citation at all?
We’re talking about the “desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure” outside of marriage… not hugs, massages, or any other action that doesn’t involve sexual pleasure.
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Mikhowl
Guest
sorry, I guess I’m just looking for answers… but what’s the difference? pleasure is pleasure, isn’t it? and… it just seems like this would be better than finding sexual pleasure by other means. I just don’t know, haha…
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Joe_5859
Guest
You don’t have kids, do you?
Just kidding! Of course, you are right. That would be an altogether different scenario.
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Robert_Sock
Guest
Earthly pleasures can be a serious obstacle in our journey toward salvation.
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knightbird111
Guest
even though this is a Catholic Forum. I consider myself a Christian and any true christian will tell you masturbation is a sin.
I will tell you for certain because when a true cleansed soul commits the act, they will feel the soul immediately die after climax and the Holy spirit leave.
Its a very tricky sin.
You might say to yourself, it is impossible to stop, I will tell you why you feel this way.
Fasting is the key to freedom from masturbation. Also pray to remove any spirits from your house.
Masturbation has spiritual roots
I will tell you for certain because when a true cleansed soul commits the act, they will feel the soul immediately die after climax and the Holy spirit leave.
Its a very tricky sin.
You might say to yourself, it is impossible to stop, I will tell you why you feel this way.
- Your flesh desires it
- evil spirits in your house
- demons in your body
Fasting is the key to freedom from masturbation. Also pray to remove any spirits from your house.
Masturbation has spiritual roots
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