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Annn
Guest
As far as I understand, lust is an exploitative way of thinking about a potential sexual partner - isn’t it?
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LilyM
Guest
Not according to the Catechism:
2351 Lust is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
So any inordinate thoughts about sex or sexual pleasure qualify - after all, adultery is adultery whether you’re doing it out of particular desire for your partner or just a general desire for illicit sex, no?
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Annn
Guest
Mmm. Cool. Thanks for the quote; I’m not Catholic and am not as familiar with the ins and outs of the Catechism as some.
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LilyM
Guest
Fair enough - I had to look it up myself, but I had a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn’t just be defined as objectifying other people.
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Annn
Guest
It seems that that limited definition is its most common application, here and in the wider world.
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LilyM
Guest
I’m used to thinking of it as an inordinate desire for ANYTHING really - as in people might have a lust for travel, lust for power, lust for wealth. And have heard lots of people use it in the same way.
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CatholicKing08
Guest
Physical reasons why masturbation is not healthy (from a man’s perspective):
-Can turn into an addiction with side effects of premature ejaculation, chronic fatigue, weak erections, lower back pain etc.
-Causes a man to only be in tune with himself sexually, so he is more likely to have little endurance in the act of sex which is much more intense, or he may seek only to pleasure himself at the expense of his partner (leaving her unsatisfied)
-Can mess up the shape/size of the male organ if done too much, since obviously it was not designed to be jerked around by a hand but to fit comfortably in the female organ
-Frequent orgasm depletes the body of minerals such as zinc (these minerals are absorbed from the female during sex, so no loss occurs), and causes the brain to release chemicals (e.g. dopamine) that act as addicting substances in a manner similar to nicotine.
-Makes a man tired since the body has to devote energy to producing cells afterward
Spiritual reasons masturbation is not healthy:
-It’s rooted in extreme selfishness (“I can have it, when I want it”)
-Uses sex organs in a backwards and hedonistic way in which God never intended
-Pornography/lustful thoughts reduce women to the level of sex objects for the pleasure of men. The spiritual dimension of women as people is completely ignored as a result.
-Divides sex so that it’s no longer a self-giving act of love between a man and a woman that reflects Christian love
-As a moral sin, acts as a barrier to a person’s relationship with God
-Can turn into an addiction with side effects of premature ejaculation, chronic fatigue, weak erections, lower back pain etc.
-Causes a man to only be in tune with himself sexually, so he is more likely to have little endurance in the act of sex which is much more intense, or he may seek only to pleasure himself at the expense of his partner (leaving her unsatisfied)
-Can mess up the shape/size of the male organ if done too much, since obviously it was not designed to be jerked around by a hand but to fit comfortably in the female organ
-Frequent orgasm depletes the body of minerals such as zinc (these minerals are absorbed from the female during sex, so no loss occurs), and causes the brain to release chemicals (e.g. dopamine) that act as addicting substances in a manner similar to nicotine.
-Makes a man tired since the body has to devote energy to producing cells afterward
Spiritual reasons masturbation is not healthy:
-It’s rooted in extreme selfishness (“I can have it, when I want it”)
-Uses sex organs in a backwards and hedonistic way in which God never intended
-Pornography/lustful thoughts reduce women to the level of sex objects for the pleasure of men. The spiritual dimension of women as people is completely ignored as a result.
-Divides sex so that it’s no longer a self-giving act of love between a man and a woman that reflects Christian love
-As a moral sin, acts as a barrier to a person’s relationship with God
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stringbeanduck
Guest
I agree with you very much. Lifetime of celibacy and an eternity of happiness sounds like a good deal to me. Though I don’t think I’m called to that vocation.
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blackst
Guest
So let me get this straight, you are claiming we can’t be perfect or rightous or Holy, or Sanctified, or healthy so we should do as we please, so someone stronger faster braver than you should rob rape and blunder you, because we can’t be perfect can we, sin is ok until we have to pay a price.I never said that masturbation was perfectly fine and without moral consideration.
Black and white thinking has been the source of incredible emotional torment of many people who seek to do good since time began. This black and white thinking is at the root of the sex scandal that has plagued the church as well. Sickness loves black and white thinking!
Christ’s words “be perfect as your heavely father is perfect” have been taken out of context for centuries. As human beings, we are not capable of perfection. There is only one God… and it is not us!
peace~
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phantasm
Guest
That sounds unnatural, unhealthy and like a miserable way to live.
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baylee
Guest
First let me clarify that there were times that it was clearly lust (so I am not saying that it never involved lust)…but there were times in my past when I know what made me want to masturbate was quite different. The end result is a good feeling, but the desire to do it those times did not come about out of thoughts to get to that end result.
As for your knowledge that masturbation always involves lustful thoughts, could you please provide a source? I know that the section about masturbation in the Catechism doesn’t mention this.
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stringbeanduck
Guest
Is it? Or is that just your opinion? To one who has dedicated their lives to God, it is great way to show their commitment and avoid the distraction of a wife and children.
If you belonged to a religion and you felt that the God and the teachings of that religion would get you to eternal happiness, you would do everything in your power to adhere to it right? Surely you wouldn’t want to choose eternal damnation if you felt reason to believe in such.
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TLM08
Guest
The above is a perfect example of “black and white” or “all or nothing” thinking. This is exactly the kind of attitude that breeds feelings of worthlessness in people who are truly seeking God’s will for their lives. Never ONCE did I say that it was perfectly fine to sin at will just because we cannot be perfect. God is indeed perfect. There is only one God, and it is not us!
Keep working on trying to “get this strait”.
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TLM08
Guest
For a very small percentage of the population, celibacy is easy, natural and a desireable way of life. Everybody’s physiology, needs, background, self control and talents are different. For some, a life of celibacy is simply not attainable, whether married or not.
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blackst
Guest
Originally Posted by TLM08
I never said that masturbation was perfectly fine and without moral consideration.
Black and white thinking has been the source of incredible emotional torment of many people who seek to do good since time began. This black and white thinking is at the root of the sex scandal that has plagued the church as well. Sickness loves black and white thinking!
Christ’s words “be perfect as your heavely father is perfect” have been taken out of context for centuries. As human beings, we are not capable of perfection. There is only one God… and it is not us!
peace~
What does it mean to be sanctified, righteous, pure, Holy, clean, healthy?
I never said that masturbation was perfectly fine and without moral consideration.
Black and white thinking has been the source of incredible emotional torment of many people who seek to do good since time began. This black and white thinking is at the root of the sex scandal that has plagued the church as well. Sickness loves black and white thinking!
Christ’s words “be perfect as your heavely father is perfect” have been taken out of context for centuries. As human beings, we are not capable of perfection. There is only one God… and it is not us!
peace~
Are you suggesting that Jesus was sick, he said darkness has nothing to do with light, he thought in absolutes, is the church sick, how can you seek God’s will for your self by doing your own will, that’s a contradiction. Who’s will are you following, who is your conscience, examine your conscience, have you form a conscince yet?The above is a perfect example of “black and white” or “all or nothing” thinking. This is exactly the kind of attitude that breeds feelings of worthlessness in people who are truly seeking God’s will for their lives. Never ONCE did I say that it was perfectly fine to sin at will just because we cannot be perfect. God is indeed perfect. There is only one God, and it is not us!
Keep working on trying to “get this strait”.
What does it mean to be sanctified, righteous, pure, Holy, clean, healthy?
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blackst
Guest
Do you think Jesus masturbated?The above is a perfect example of “black and white” or “all or nothing” thinking. This is exactly the kind of attitude that breeds feelings of worthlessness in people who are truly seeking God’s will for their lives. Never ONCE did I say that it was perfectly fine to sin at will just because we cannot be perfect. God is indeed perfect. There is only one God, and it is not us!
Keep working on trying to “get this strait”.
Worthlessness does not come by dichotomous thinking, but by conscience, when our conscience tells us we are doing something wrong and we continue then we feel worthlessness, what good is it to convince someone they are worth something only to suffer from there choices, sin is what causes us to feel worthless, whoever teachs other to obey what I ahve commanded will be considered great, WORTHY, those who teach others to break my commands will be considered least in the kingdom, UNWORTHY.
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alongexpected
Guest
Your logic is rendered useless with the question “Then why don’t we see people taking a dump in public?” We masturbate and go to the bathroom in secret because it’s embarassing.
Furthermore, it’s not our God-given conscience that tells us it’s wrong, it’s the mental conditioning we receive from a young age that tells us it’s wrong.
Lastly, masturbation is a sin in the Church’s eyes, but it shouldn’t be. It hurts no one, unless you use the argument that it’s hurting God. Do you really know that?
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phantasm
Guest
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Julian_Peters
Guest
Thank you to all who participated. This thread is now closed.
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