Masturbation.

[Durus]

Cite your source that most married women in the secular world (whatever that is) do not care in the least, as they have an understanding that it is beneficial and is of no harm.

And cite sources that definitively demonstrate that it is beneficial and is of no harm, please.

After all, smoking used to be good for you. Now we know better.

marriage.about.com/cs/masturbation/f/masturbatfaq3.htm

‘The consensus of those doing a statistical analysis of who masturbates is that around 90% of the total male population and 65% of the total female population masturbate from time to time.’

 

[cjmclark]

You’ve made a positive claim and now the onus is on you to prove said claim true.

Here’s my evidence, yours will follow?

betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/masturbation

Sexual health benefits

Some of the known sexual health benefits of masturbation include the following:
It’s a safer form of sex that carries no risk of sexually transmissible infection or unplanned pregnancy.
It releases sexual tension and lets people explore their sexuality by themselves. It might suit those who don’t have a partner, aren’t having sex with their partner or are abstaining from sex.
Being familiar with your own sexual responses helps you communicate your wants and needs to your partner.
Masturbation is a common treatment for sexual dysfunction. For example, women who don’t orgasm can learn by masturbating and men who experience premature ejaculation can use masturbation to learn control.

General health benefits

Some of the general health benefits of masturbation might include the following:
Relaxes your muscles
Helps you fall asleep
Promotes the release of the brain’s opioid-like neurotransmitters (endorphins), which cause feelings of physical and mental wellbeing
Reduces stress
Enhances self-esteem.

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,401722,00.html
Health Benefits for Men

Research summarized in a 2007 article in Sexual and Relationship Therapy found that masturbation may help men by:

— Improving his immune system’s functioning.

— Building his resistance to prostate gland infection.

— Making for a healthier prostate.

Australian researchers have reported that frequent masturbation may lower a man’s risk of developing prostate cancer. A survey of men found the more frequently a man masturbates between the ages of 20 and 50, the less likely they are to get prostate cancer. In fact, those who masturbated more than five times a week were one-third less likely to develop prostate cancer.

Health Benefits for Females

When it comes to a woman’s health, self-pleasuring serves her well by:

— Building her resistance to yeast infections.

— Combating pre-menstrual tension and other physical conditions associated with their menstrual cycles, like cramps.

— Relieving painful menstruation by increasing blood flow to the pelvic region. This will also reduce pelvic cramping and related backaches.

— Relieving chronic back pain and increasing her threshold for pain.

Your “evidence” includes a lot of “might”, “may” and “likely”. Not exactly definitive, as at best it shows a correlative relationship and not a causative one. I have made no positive claims save that “evidence” supporting health benefits of masturbation is largely anecdotal and that in any case, it’s irrelevant to a practicing Catholic as it is considered a gravely disordered act. Both you and the OP make claims it’s “commonly known” to have health benefits, but all you have managed to provide is circumstantial evidence and a statistic that basically says “a lot of people do it”…not exactly definitive proof of a healthy practice.

 

[Durus]

Your “evidence” includes a lot of “might”, “may” and “likely”. Not exactly definitive, as at best it shows a correlative relationship and not a causative one. I have made no positive claims save that “evidence” supporting health benefits of masturbation is largely anecdotal and that in any case, it’s irrelevant to a practicing Catholic as it is considered a gravely disordered act. Both you and the OP make claims it’s “commonly known” to have health benefits, but all you have managed to provide is circumstantial evidence and a statistic that basically says “a lot of people do it”…not exactly definitive proof of a healthy practice.

I’m still waiting for your citations.

Even one citation indicating that it is harmful for humans to masturbate?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I don’t have time to find them again, but you should be able to pretty easily find scientific publications that explain the biochemical effects of masturbation.
That it is addictive is common sense. Seeing as your side likes to claim “everybody does it,” it seems that you shouldn’t need any evidence from me. While it’s effects are not so often as debilitating as other addictions, they can be. Nevertheless, it is a notoriously difficult habit to break which is often accompanied by classic “withdrawal” symptoms. If you don’t want to do the legwork, I’ll try and get back to you with some actual sources later.

Yep, there are biochemical effects of masturbation. The same ones that there are from sex. No one warns newlyweds to not get addicted.

And no, it is not common sense that it is addictive. Both psychologists and medical doctors will recommend it for stress relief, treatment for premature ejaculation, female sexual anxiety and orgasm issues, etc. No one in the medical field considers it addictive. Of course, like anything you can become addicted, but it is rare, just as a video game or cheese addiction is rare.

Thinking its morally wrong is one thing, making untrue medical claims is another.

 

[ThePastafarian]

It’s a bit rude to refer to the faith of those here as brain washing and insinuate that all believers are the equivalent of gullible children.

Just because something provides benefits does not mean it does not have negative effects as well. As for your cited “benefits”, there are other things that are just as effective that are not, from a Christian perspective, sinful. On the other hand, here are a couple that do the same thing but which you would probably agree are not exactly moral/good things to do:

• Drugs and excessive drinking are great sleep aids.
• Punching someone in the face is a great stress reliever

As far as maintaining fresh healthy sperm, it does not take any great amount of work to restore that balance through regular conjugal regulations. Your body doesn’t just stop making sperm and hold onto the old stuff. It will either reabsorb the old sperm or release it naturally. Regardless, having sexual intercourse once or twice would effect the same thing.

As for moral means of achieving the other benefits, exercise is both a great sleep aid and a great stress reliever. Classical music is a great sleep aid. Laughter is a great stress reliever. The list could go on and on.

For one, masturbation is addictive and has been scientifically proven to act on the brain in the same way as drugs such as cocaine, even moreso if pornography is involved. Second, it turns one’s sexuality inward and can easily lead to emotional isolation. Mind you, that’s not to say this will happen to everyone. But it is a natural and likely outcome. Most importantly, it trains one to view sex in a distorted way, such as a means to solve, or rather hide from, problems (your citing it as “stress relief” is a perfect illustration) or as a source of self-gratification with no mind to the unitive purpose of sex, exemplified by the obvious fact that it causes one to dehumanize the object of his or her sexual fantasy into a collection of body parts and actions.

The irony of the “masturbation relieves tension” proposition is that it works just like cigarettes or heroin. As the brain becomes used to the release of dopamine, which provides that feeling of “relief”, it becomes dependent on it and actually produces greater feelings of tension and stress when it doesn’t get that dopamine rush. And, just like a drug addiction, the more you feed it, the bigger it grows.

One, I used Santa Claus as an example to show that kids ARE quite gullible, and exposing them to such a personality changing idea is very harmful. Examples that come to mind are the Hitler Youth. Of course we know that Nazis were evil, but the kids were raised to believe that Hitler was great. I’m by no means comparing religion to Hitler’s rule, just showing that the concept is the same. Kids will believe anything, especially if their parents are doing it.
You compared drinking and smoking to masturbating as a sleep aid. Surely you must realize that smoking has been proven to show awful health effects, whereas masturbation has absolutely no ill side-effects, and there are only good things to say about the topic. I find it hard to believe that punching someone in the face would relieve sexual tension, and even so, masturbating doesn’t harm anyone at all. You also said that many of the benefits can be achieved through intercourse, however, not everyone is able to “Get some” 3 times a week. I’m married, so I no longer need to masturbate, but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t if she were not here. So far, aside from “God says it’s bad, therefore I shall not” your only argument that has a remote possibility of being factual is that it can cause addiction, which it almost certainly does not, as I have lived through my teen years, and it never brought an addiction.
“Even if there was medical evidence I would agree with the church’s teaching that it is a grave matter. This is because it has not done me any favours emotionally or spiritually. It can lead to feelings of being discouraged with yourself, Despair, Dryness in Prayer, lack of trust in God. It is quite a struggle for some of us.” Masturbation is not supposed to be helping you emotionally. It’s simply a means to achieve something that all humans need, not help you connect with god. And masturbation, by no means, causes despair. If so, I’m sure I would’ve heard stories about it.
Anyone who watches pornography knows that it’s fantasy, and sex is not like that. I, among many others, don’t treat our companions as slabs of meat good for cooking and sex.

 

[dimentichisimai]

OP, you’re putting the cart before the horse. There are some aspects of Catholic moral theology that you’ll be able to grasp on a secular level. But some of our beliefs simply are “because God says so.” Or at least, that’s the primary motivation behind them.

I’m sure if you dug around enough, you’d find some scientific evidence that may point towards how masturbation can be damaging in some emotional, social, or even physical way. But you also might not at all.

We’re not Catholic because we believe it’s the healthiest, happiest way to live (though many of us believe this to be true as well). We’re Catholic because we believe God loves us and has a better life waiting for us after death.

You’re trying to understand Calculus but deny the validity of Arithmetic. It just doesn’t work that way.

 

[yellow8yellowM]

The problem with citing evidence that masturbation is addictive is that it is hard to find real scientific evidence that anything is addictive. Being addicted to something is a psychological phenomenon/disorder that cannot be defined as neatly as having or not having the measles.

Lets look at two thought experiments though:

1. Take 100 pubescent boys secretly sneak a couple dozen porn DVD’s into their bedroom. Then compare this with a new set of 100 boys but without the pornography. I bet ones with the porn would masturbate a lot more and probably look for more porn. So would you say the porn is addictive or the masturbation?
2. Take 100 heroin addicts and give them unlimited heroin, food, and water, and medical care. Then compare this to homeless, poor heroin addicts. I bet the former would do more heroin. The heroin is still the same, but it a different circumstance it is less addictive so to speak.

 

[ThePastafarian]

"OP, you’re putting the cart before the horse. There are some aspects of Catholic moral theology that you’ll be able to grasp on a secular level. But some of our beliefs simply are “because God says so.” Or at least, that’s the primary motivation behind them.

I’m sure if you dug around enough, you’d find some scientific evidence that may point towards how masturbation can be damaging in some emotional, social, or even physical way. But you also might not at all.

We’re not Catholic because we believe it’s the healthiest, happiest way to live (though many of us believe this to be true as well). We’re Catholic because we believe God loves us and has a better life waiting for us after death.

You’re trying to understand Calculus but deny the validity of Arithmetic. It just doesn’t work that way."
And everyone here is calling non-believers who masturbate sinners based on something that may or may not exist. It’s the same thing, but I have factual evidence to back me up, and, frankly, people here don’t.

 

[ThePastafarian]

The problem with citing evidence that masturbation is addictive is that it is hard to find real scientific evidence that anything is addictive. Being addicted to something is a psychological phenomenon/disorder that cannot be defined as neatly as having or not having the measles.

Lets look at two thought experiments though:

1. Take 100 pubescent boys secretly sneak a couple dozen porn DVD’s into their bedroom. Then compare this with a new set of 100 boys but without the pornography. I bet ones with the porn would masturbate a lot more and probably look for more porn. So would you say the porn is addictive or the masturbation?
2. Take 100 heroin addicts and give them unlimited heroin, food, and water, and medical care. Then compare this to homeless, poor heroin addicts. I bet the former would do more heroin. The heroin is still the same, but it a different circumstance it is less addictive so to speak.

I apologize for the double post. The kids with the porn would NOT look for more, as they have more than a day’s worth of it. If anything, the deprived kids bursting with hormones are going scour every inch of the earth for anything sexually related. Also, addictions are very easy to see, and it’s been scientifically proven that they do exist, obviously. Withdrawal symptoms are a very real thing, and I’ve not once gotten them from not masturbating for a period of time.

 

[dimentichisimai]

"OP, you’re putting the cart before the horse. There are some aspects of Catholic moral theology that you’ll be able to grasp on a secular level. But some of our beliefs simply are “because God says so.” Or at least, that’s the primary motivation behind them.

I’m sure if you dug around enough, you’d find some scientific evidence that may point towards how masturbation can be damaging in some emotional, social, or even physical way. But you also might not at all.

We’re not Catholic because we believe it’s the healthiest, happiest way to live (though many of us believe this to be true as well). We’re Catholic because we believe God loves us and has a better life waiting for us after death.

You’re trying to understand Calculus but deny the validity of Arithmetic. It just doesn’t work that way."
And everyone here is calling non-believers who masturbate sinners based on something that may or may not exist. It’s the same thing, but I have factual evidence to back me up, and, frankly, people here don’t.

You have factual evidence that non-believers who masturbate aren’t sinners? Think about what you just typed.

 

[ThePastafarian]

You have factual evidence that non-believers who masturbate aren’t sinners? Think about what you just typed.

I have factual evidence that masturbating is good for you. If you’re a non-believer, you obviously don’t believe in sin, so me saying I have proof that something that is literally impossible to prove wrong doesn’t make sense. Take exercising, for example. So there’s this unicorn in the same room as you. It’s invisible, and you can’t touch it. There is nothing you can do to prove it’s existence, but this unicorn said to someone that exercising is bad despite the proven health benefits. That’s what this situation is.

 

[dimentichisimai]

OP, you’re basically asking: “Why is it morally wrong for someone to masturbate?”

Catholics have a moral theology based upon scripture, the catechism, etc. So that is our criteria for judging right and wrong. You reject that data, and have a different criteria for judging right and wrong (something vaguely utilitarian from what I gather, but altogether incompatible with our worldview–at least in this instance).

Therefore, you’re speaking a different ethical language, and cannot hope to have your question answered. You’re wasting your time.

 

[dimentichisimai]

P.S.

Because you’re speaking a different ethical language, you also have a skewed idea of what “sin” means.

For Catholics, sin is doing something against God’s will. Sin is inherently wrong, not because it isn’t physically good for you or something (though that may also be the case), but primarily because God does not want you to do it.

Do you understand what I’m getting at here?

 

[ThePastafarian]

I’m asking for a scientific reason (If there is one) for believing it is a sin. Believe whatever you wish, it doesn’t matter. Basically "It’s a sin because it does _______) is what I want. Not “It’s a sin because it’s in the bible”. Why is it in the bible? What’s the reasoning behind the moral belief? If the argument is as simple as, we believe it, that’s that, then I could go on to that in my religion, potato eating is a sin, brushing your teeth is a sin and other silly things.

 

[dimentichisimai]

I’m asking for a scientific reason (If there is one) for believing it is a sin. Believe whatever you wish, it doesn’t matter. Basically "It’s a sin because it does _______) is what I want. Not “It’s a sin because it’s in the bible”. Why is it in the bible? What’s the reasoning behind the moral belief? If the argument is as simple as, we believe it, that’s that, then I could go on to that in my religion, potato eating is a sin, brushing your teeth is a sin and other silly things.

There is no scientific reason for believing that masturbation is a sin. Science tells us how the world works, not how we ought to live in it.

We believe certain actions are immoral because (through Scripture and the guidance of the Holy Spirit in the Church), we believe God tells us that they offend Him. Sometimes there’s overlap with utilitarian reasoning, but sometimes there isn’t. In this case, there probably isn’t. Simple as that.

 

[prodigalson2011]

Yep, there are biochemical effects of masturbation. The same ones that there are from sex. No one warns newlyweds to not get addicted.

And no, it is not common sense that it is addictive. Both psychologists and medical doctors will recommend it for stress relief, treatment for premature ejaculation, female sexual anxiety and orgasm issues, etc. No one in the medical field considers it addictive. Of course, like anything you can become addicted, but it is rare, just as a video game or cheese addiction is rare.

Thinking its morally wrong is one thing, making untrue medical claims is another.

That is actually incorrect. The biochemical effects of masturbation and sex are not the same. There is an entirely separate chemical dimension to sex that involves emotional bonding. This is fundamentally absent from masturbation.

 

[sw85]

My very religious friend recently told me that on a sheet of sins, masturbating was written. I’m very much agnostic, but I’m not hear to debate on that. I was raised with no religion, my parents allowed to make a choice rather than shoving brain-washing material down my throat (Think about it, you believed in Santa Claus as a kid, you’ll believe anything). So, upon hearing this, I took to the internet, eager to see if it was true. On my Google search I came upon a thread about the subject and apparently it’s a “Grave sin”. Do you people realize the plethora of health benefits masturbating brings? It’s a sleep aid, it releases tension, and it keeps your (Excuse my bluntness) testicles making fresh, healthy sperm, as opposed to keeping it inside where it begins to deteriorate. Now, I invite any one of you to come and tell me why I’m wrong. What I don’t want, however, is simple “Because god says so” arguments. They’re simple-minded and no matter how many points you bring, you can’t win them. Also, a righteous moderator may delete this post. I implore you not to, however. Perhaps if I happen to see the light on this subject, I’ll be closer to god, and you wouldn’t want to prevent that, correct?
Also, I feel I should add that I’m a happily married man, making good money every year with 2 kids. My life has been just fine without going to church or praying.
Oh, by the way, I originally posted this in the answers section, but I highly doubt it would get posted, so now it’s here.

The evidence is mixed on the health benefits. There’s evidence it actually accelerates cancer in younger men. Turns out flushing your body with what are basically growth hormones is kind of bad.

In any event, the Catholic argument is not “masturbation’s bad for you.” It’s “masturbation is bad, period.”

Sorry, but no one’s going to conveniently hand you all the information you want. The Catholic prohibition on masturbation arises from a natural theological/moral philosophical tradition that goes back about 2,400 years, and most of us have jobs and families and other obligations that have far more legitimate claims on our time and attention. We can’t just drop everything we’re doing and write a book-length treatment every time someone comes here complaining that the Catholic Church doesn’t validate their preferred beliefs.

One thing I can do is give you some references you can use to educate yourself on the matter, to wit:

– Edward Feser’s *Aquinas *(chapter 5) or The Last Superstition (chapter 4, I think).

– An article written by Feser, available online for free here, called “Natural Law, Natural Rights, and Private Property.”

– Chapter 3 of Natural Moral Law in Contemporary Society, titled “The Metaphysical Foundations of Natural Law.” This is a little more scholarly than Feser’s article above but also a little more thorough. You can find this for free online here.

Are you suggesting that masturbation using your spouse is what God intended? I thought that you had to love your spouse.

Part of the purpose of marriage is to offer a remedy for concupiscence. We have the words of St. Paul himself, in 1 Cor., to attest to this. Exploiting that legitimate remedy need not be “using” one’s wife.

What if you’re a bachelor or a Priest?

You can always just exercise self-control.

 

[sw85]

There is no scientific reason for believing that masturbation is a sin. Science tells us how the world works, not how we ought to live in it.

Indeed, indeed. The claim that there must be a scientific reason why we believe X is wrong rather than an ethical/philosophical one betrays a pretty spectacularly bizarre view of things.

I am amazed that we are still blathering on about whether science agrees masturbation is harmful or not. This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Saying it must be harmful before it can be considered immoral is a priori begging the question against Catholic ethics, which are nonconsequentialist. If you walk in here with the attitude that consequentialism is right and therefore Catholic ethics are wrong, of course you’re not going to get an answer that will satisfy you. Why even come here, then?

 

[dimentichisimai]

Indeed, indeed. The claim that there must be a scientific reason why we believe X is wrong rather than an ethical/philosophical one betrays a pretty spectacularly bizarre view of things.

I am amazed that we are still blathering on about whether science agrees masturbation is harmful or not. This is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Saying it must be harmful before it can be considered immoral is a priori begging the question against Catholic ethics, which are nonconsequentialist. If you walk in here with the attitude that consequentialism is right and therefore Catholic ethics are wrong, of course you’re not going to get an answer that will satisfy you. Why even come here, then?

:clapping:

…and, Brother, Vivat Jesus!

 

[prodigalson2011]

This discussion brings to mind an article I read recently which discussed the “health benefits” of other sins such as lying, gossiping, etc. There are apparently “positive” neurological effects from these activities as well. What’s next in the divine revelation of scientism?