Masturbation

[jdnation]

Found this site that says masturbation in itself is not immoral. While I know the arguements against it are that the procreative act isn’t there, it offers some strong points against that. Of course as the Church teaches there should also always be a unitive act. But I’d like some more strong points against masturbation. For the site article see here:

atruechurch.info/masturbation.html

 

[Ghosty]

That site actually has no leg to stand on. It’s making a “sola scriptura” argument from absence, ignoring 3000 years of consistant interpretation of said Scripture by both Jews and Catholics. The arguments are based on twisting ancient terms with modern perceptions, and then saying that the ancient words don’t speak at all on the issue of masturbation.

The fact is, for as long as there has been Scripture, the two groups that have kept a consistant interpretation of that Scripture have understood it to be speaking out against masturbation. Case closed.

 

[blackfish152]

Jesus said,

You have heard that it was said to those of old, “You shall not commit adultery.” But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28)

Jesus made it clear that adultery can be committed in the heart, even though no physical intercourse has taken place. “The imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth,” (Genesis 8:21) so it would not be surprising to find evil masturbatic activity rampant in society. Masturbation with evil imaginations, which could include the use of pornographic material, is most certainly wicked.

But, masturbation, in and of itself, does not demand such evil thoughts. To say it does, goes beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6), adds to the word of God (Proverbs 30:5-6), and denies Biblical freedom in Christ (Colossians 2:20-22

This part is quite frankly an argument which is hard to accept. saying that it goes beyond what is written.

I find it hard to believe that the masterbating act can be seperated from unlawful Lust and also the adultery of the heart statements!

What are these people thus thinking about and what leads them to such an act? surely it is sexual lust! that is surely a sin as the Church rightly teaches.

jdnation, I think we both know it is obvious why this “christian” author of that site is going to such trouble to twist meanings of scripture.

 

[BibleReader]

jdnation:

Found this site that says masturbation in itself is not immoral. While I know the arguements against it are that the procreative act isn’t there, it offers some strong points against that. Of course as the Church teaches there should also always be a unitive act. But I’d like some more strong points against masturbation. For the site article see here:

atruechurch.info/masturbation.html

I masturbated for years, beginning at age 7. Even with nobody telling me that it immoral, I hid the habit – i.e., my conscience told me it was immoral.

As I matured, I realized that philosophically masturbation is an “act of theft” from God. God gave us these wonderful “pleasure machines” between our legs, which generate the physical reward – intense physical pleasure – for engaging in reproductive-style activity.

If WE consciously disconnect the pleasure reward from the reproductive-style activity, we violate the carrot/stick arrangement established by God. We get the carrot – sex – but grab it oiff the shelf at the store without paying for it – responsibility.

It’s theft.

 

[rwoehmke]

All I can say J.D. is look at the source of this hogwash and you will find a man who wishes to justify his own immorality. The site condemns just about every other denomination and sect as well as the Roman Catholic Church. Do not let yourself be misled. Hell is for a long long time.

 

[YinYangMom]

But, masturbation, in and of itself, does not demand such evil thoughts.

Ok then…somebody, please, explain a situation where masturbation would occur without entertaining such evil thoughts???

Honestly…

arousal doesn’t come out of thin air…something stimulates it…and to bring it to fruition erotic thoughts have to be in play…

Can one bring oneself to climax by visualizing only vegetables? air? water? puppies? boats? cars? candy?

Nope. If they can, then they have a serious sexual disorder.

 

[Timidity]

YinYangMom:

Can one bring oneself to climax by visualizing only vegetables? air? water? puppies? boats? cars? candy?

Nope. If they can, then they have a serious sexual disorder.

You are absolutely wrong about this. You think all those masturbating preschoolers are engaging in sexual fantasies in order to obtain climax? Of course not–they don’t have the first clue. The body simply responds in a certain way to certain physical stimuli.

 

[Timidity]

This poor protestant is what happens when you don’t have a clear teaching authority in your church. How lucky we are to be Catholic.

I notice that he’s absolutely silent on Ezechiel’s passage regarding women’s use of sex toys. Most defenders of masturbation usually mention the passage then brush it away with “it’s only an metaphor”, while ignoring that metaphors only work if they have a foundation in truth.

 

[YinYangMom]

Timidity:

You are absolutely wrong about this. You think all those masturbating preschoolers are engaging in sexual fantasies in order to obtain climax? Of course not–they don’t have the first clue. The body simply responds in a certain way to certain physical stimuli.

Oh give me a break! We aren’t talking about preschoolers and you know it.

The original poster brought up the scriptural references so let’s keep the playing field even. Jesus and the others weren’t talking to children - they were talking to men!

Webster’s Definition:
Masturbation is erotic stimulation…

Erotic: of, devoted to, or tending to arouse sexual love or desire

Each man and woman is marked to find the other which completes them. For some it will be through marriage, for others it is through the Church.

If through marriage, then the desire to begin the search for one’s mate begins with puberty. Until then, boys are boys, girls are girls, innocent and pure children of Christ.

When we become men and women, then we carry responsibility for our bodies, for our souls…we are obliged to exercise our free will according to God’s plan.

 

[Timidity]

YinYangMom:

Oh give me a break! We aren’t talking about preschoolers and you know it.

I wasn’t by any stretch of the imgination defending masturbation; it is a sinful action, plain and simple. However you were putting forth an intellectually false argument, which I feels weakens the cause. i was using the young’uns argument to demonstrate the point.

Masturbation is a physical act. It does not require any external fantasy in order to complete. That’s the only point I was making.

 

[YinYangMom]

Timidity:

I wasn’t by any stretch of the imgination defending masturbation; it is a sinful action, plain and simple. However you were putting forth an intellectually false argument, which I feels weakens the cause. i was using the young’uns argument to demonstrate the point.

Masturbation is a physical act. It does not require any external fantasy in order to complete. That’s the only point I was making.

And I was correcting you.

According to the dictionary it is erotic stimulation…look it up because I don’t want to type it all here…

Automatic erections in children is not erotic in any way whatsoever, it’s biological at first and then simple cause/effect experimentation next, which one soon learns is not proper behavior if the parent is on the ball with the child’s training. The parent teaches a child at that point that each part of a person’s body has a specific function and each needs to be respected and guarded. This is the beginning of the teaching of God’s design of the human body. The parent does this because he/she knows that curiosity will revisit the child later in life. They are laying the foundation for that time.

Later in life, when hormones start kicking in, or because of peer pressure, television, movies, etc…a young man/woman revisits that curiousity of cause/effect…but by that time he/she knows such exploration is not rightly ordered. At that point in development the young person would, indeed, need to add erotic images in order to conduct the experiment, and that’s when it crosses over to masturbation.

 

[StCsDavid]

Masturbation is simply a selfish view of sexuality. You are using yourself for your own pleasure when the gift of your sexuality was meant to be given exclusively to your spouse. That gift which is intended for your spouse was given to you to give my none other than God. It takes a certain amount of maturity to learn this. I know I’ve mentioned this is several posts on other matters, but you can do no wrong reading John Paul’s Theology of the Body.

 

[Pug]

YinYangMom:

Later in life, when hormones start kicking in, or because of peer pressure, television, movies, etc…a young man/woman revisits that curiousity of cause/effect…but by that time he/she knows such exploration is not rightly ordered. At that point in development the young person would, indeed, need to add erotic images in order to conduct the experiment, and that’s when it crosses over to masturbation.

It is not obvious to me at all that the illicit behavior requires any thought beyond wishing to complete the act or just enjoying it. No imagery required. No ideas required. No nothing.

Not everyone is taught it is wrong. Often they are just taught not to talk about it and to keep it private (presumeably because the parents don’t want to hear about it).

 

[ekim61]

jdnation:

Found this site that says masturbation in itself is not immoral. While I know the arguements against it are that the procreative act isn’t there, it offers some strong points against that. Of course as the Church teaches there should also always be a unitive act. But I’d like some more strong points against masturbation. For the site article see here:

atruechurch.info/masturbation.html

OK I went to this link and read a little about this guy. My impression is that he is a lunatic. Enough said

 

[Timidity]

YinYangMom:

And I was correcting you.

You can’t be correcting me, because you’re wrong and I’m right.

YinYangMom:

At that point in development the young person would, indeed, need to add erotic images in order to conduct the experiment, and that’s when it crosses over to masturbation.

Perhaps I see the point of confusion. If you’re referring to thought of the masturabatory act itself as an erotic thought, then perhaps I can agree with you.

I interpreted your post to be saying that a person must be engaged in mental imagery of sexual situations with other people, which is absolutely incorrect.

 

[piscotikus]

Let us not forget thet God struck down Onan for spilling his seed. Masturbation (for males) always ends in this horrible act which God clearly condems.

 

[YinYangMom]

Timidity:

You can’t be correcting me, because you’re wrong and I’m right.

Perhaps I see the point of confusion. If you’re referring to thought of the masturabatory act itself as an erotic thought, then perhaps I can agree with you.

I interpreted your post to be saying that a person must be engaged in mental imagery of sexual situations with other people, which is absolutely incorrect.

Pug and Timidity…I’m going by Webster’s Dictionary…it is not my perception that masturbation requires erotica…it’s defined as such.
Argue with me all you want, but I didn’t set the definition.

 

[Pug]

YinYangMom:

Pug and Timidity…I’m going by Webster’s Dictionary…it is not my perception that masturbation requires erotica…it’s defined as such.
Argue with me all you want, but I didn’t set the definition.

My experiential knowledge does not match a requirement for erotica. I don’t really know a different word that I ought to be using for what I am thinking of.

Just a thought, maybe erotic is in the definition to distinguish from bathing, the male crotch scratch, and the like. That is how it reads to me. Also, here is some of the definition from dictionary.com (Merriam-Webster listing):

achieved by manual or … instrumental manipulation, **occasionally **by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these

I hope that is cut up enough to be a non-objectionable posting. The bolding is mine.

 

[cheddarsox]

piscotikus:

Let us not forget thet God struck down Onan for spilling his seed. Masturbation (for males) always ends in this horrible act which God clearly condems.

God struck Onan down for denying his brothers wife children, and thus, his brother children to carry on his name. The spilling of seed was the means to fulfill the selfish intent, but not the sin which led to the smiting.

I’m not commenting on masturbation, just clarifying this point of scripture.

cheddar

 

[Mickey]

cheddarsox:

God struck Onan down for denying his brothers wife children, and thus, his brother children to carry on his name. The spilling of seed was the means to fulfill the selfish intent, but not the sin which led to the smiting.

I’m not commenting on masturbation, just clarifying this point of scripture.

cheddar

I disagree. Onan’s sin was wasting his seed–a contraceptive act. Please read this:

catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9704chap.asp