J
josh987654321
Guest
May I ask, do you believe that masturbation is immoral/wrong?
Thank you for reading
Josh
- Status
Thank you for reading
Josh
P
Padster
Guest
I think it is a very ridiculous view to have. You are equating what is a natural, if unfortunate, habit with the horrors of Auschwitz. A person may be a ‘jerk-off’ but that doesn’t make him into Hitler.
I am indeed, laughing. And I think you should be forced to retract such offensive remarks.
Best wishes,
Padster
T
TheWarriorMonk
Guest
The reason it would get you laughed at is because it displays a shocking lack of intellect. Utterly insensitive statements such as this are made purely due to their shock value, denigrates the innocent millions that died, and becomes fodder for others to dismiss a religion as an utter joke.
Engage your mind before your mouth. Masturbation has existed as long as man has existed. Your timeframe reference is purely arbitrary, and your analogy is highly insensitive and derogatory.
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
… and the Church’s teaching is to follow a well formed conscience.
If the conscience is in the middle of the process of being well formed then what does a person suppose to do?
T
TK421
Guest
“Private” sins are severe in their corporal consequences in spite of their seeming triviality because of how they affect the entire person and the ultimate decisions that are made in life. It is commonly agreed in secular thought - nevermind any theological arguments - that engaging people while they are young is the first and perhaps the most critical period to instill good habits and character in a person. I agree with this. It is possible to change later in life, of course, but it is an uphill battle.
Where Christianity and secular liberalism part ways is that sexual ethics are largely either neglected entirely or marginalized, for the obvious reason that sex feels good and it is a difficult thing to master, hence the contemporary view that if it’s not rape, then it’s not a big deal, or it’s fine.
I apologize to the readers if my analogy was unnecessarily vulgar. I could and should have conveyed my point in other ways, but even if my original presentation was poor. I still hold to the point I made that it is the private sins and the marginalized sins that are oft underestimated that are the most dangerous, not in spite of them seemingly being trivial, but because they are seemingly trivial. They are the foundation to other evils. The Blessed Mother at Fatima was far from considering sexual sins to be unimportant, but rather, that “more souls go to Hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason”. There are more people being lead to an eternity in Hell because of impurity than because of violence.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
If your conscience is not well formed then I would think the default would be obedience. Or is that out of fashion these days.
R
Robertanthony
Guest
I was not offended by the mention of the holocaust. The Jewish holocaust is what readily comes to mind for most people when they think of absolute (temporal) evil. Every personal sin, which looks trivial, adds up and becomes the size of Mount Everest. Ramifications, create new ramifications, also known as the snowball effect, and tiny little sins end up changing the direction that entire nations take.
From my own experience, I turned to masturbation to ease the anxieties and the thoughts that plagued me as a lonely young boy. Used it for comfort and to relieve stress and to make my life livable, no less. I don’t have a clone of myself who has always remained continent, so I’ll never know if I would have found my way in life and become a happy, balanced Christian/person had I not turned to sex to ease my psychological troubles. But intellectually I can understand how God has this plan for the survival and growth of the species, and how sex ought to be kept in the confines of a marriage and open to procreation. I also understand that as I know what God intended for sex, that living in open opposition to it qualifies me for an eternity away from God. Too harsh from my perspective, but intellectually, I get it.
P
Padster
Guest
The problem with far too many people on forums like this is that they limit God to the knowledge capacity of their human brain. It shows astounding stupidity to appear to speak on God’s behalf when in reality one is speaking from one’s own moral view of the world.
God has a plan? That is naive, if I may say so. It assumes that everything is still at the blueprint stage, when in reality God is already YEARS ahead of us, and very much active in the world NOW, despite what our atheist friends would have us swallow. And God is not some old bloke on a cloud. Think of the ‘nano-tech’ in the US TV series Revolution and you are getting close…
Best wishes,
Padster
God has a plan? That is naive, if I may say so. It assumes that everything is still at the blueprint stage, when in reality God is already YEARS ahead of us, and very much active in the world NOW, despite what our atheist friends would have us swallow. And God is not some old bloke on a cloud. Think of the ‘nano-tech’ in the US TV series Revolution and you are getting close…
Best wishes,
Padster
T
TK421
Guest
Robert Anthony:
When I state my opinion that private sexual impurity has been a greater ill for society in the past 50 years (I just came up with a number) than the Holocaust, I am not saying that a young boy masturbating is the moral equivalent to a Nazi executing a Pole or a Jew. Obviously the later is enormously more severe. It was a clumsy and crude analogy for me to use and I was bound to get some negative reactions.
However, when you net all of those sins together, I believe sexual impurity has been more grave to society because it permeates everywhere, it is exceedingly more frequent, and it is ignored. I am absolutely convinced that the world would be almost a paradise if we abandoned sexual impurity and established a global society of healthy, nurturing, chaste families. There are hundreds(?) of millions of children being raised in broken, divorced families. Private sexual impurity is also the setting stage that leads to isolation, fornication, contraception, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking… you name it. It is a colossally big deal, and one in which the majority of the world - both common people and academics - are rendered incapable of recognizing with an objective mind, because they are addicted to it in much the same way that an addict is addicted to a particular drug.
Thanks.
When I state my opinion that private sexual impurity has been a greater ill for society in the past 50 years (I just came up with a number) than the Holocaust, I am not saying that a young boy masturbating is the moral equivalent to a Nazi executing a Pole or a Jew. Obviously the later is enormously more severe. It was a clumsy and crude analogy for me to use and I was bound to get some negative reactions.
However, when you net all of those sins together, I believe sexual impurity has been more grave to society because it permeates everywhere, it is exceedingly more frequent, and it is ignored. I am absolutely convinced that the world would be almost a paradise if we abandoned sexual impurity and established a global society of healthy, nurturing, chaste families. There are hundreds(?) of millions of children being raised in broken, divorced families. Private sexual impurity is also the setting stage that leads to isolation, fornication, contraception, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking… you name it. It is a colossally big deal, and one in which the majority of the world - both common people and academics - are rendered incapable of recognizing with an objective mind, because they are addicted to it in much the same way that an addict is addicted to a particular drug.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Can you relate this post to the topic of masturbation?
S
strange_guy
Guest
Thank you for the question
I believe that masturbation is something that will hurt the person who does it more than anyone else. I also believe the same for fornication - it hurts the fornicators more than anyone else. Because sexual sin is something that affects our purity. After commiting sexual sin, the person with a moral conscience feels like he/she is dirty, it’s a sensation of uncleaness and unholyness that is not nice to be felt. I also believe it opens the door for demonic action on us (because every sin we commit opens the door for the demons). But God loves us even when we are being immoral. So it’s not masturbation that is going to separate us from Him. To sum it all up, I believe masturbation is a sin, just not a mortal sin.
I also noticed one thing that happens to me… When I feel disapointed or sad for whatever reason, it makes me much more likely to masturbate. I know it’s not good but it’s something that happens but I know God will forgive me and it’s not like it’s the end of the world because I had a wank.
Well that’s it!
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
One must first recognize that the conscience is not well formed. Then obedience comes into the consideration.If your conscience is not well formed then I would think the default would be obedience. Or is that out of fashion these days.
If that does not happen then the conscience rules. It’s called the invincible ignorance.
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
That is not what this says about the levels of ignorance.
newadvent.org/cathen/07648a.htm
You seem to still be describing vincible ignorance. Invincible ignorance seems to have a higher threshold. And while vincible ignorance “leaves the culpability in tact” It can make the act “less voluntary” But invincible? Total excuse from the law?
Not even close on this one.
To claim invincible ignorance of the natural law one would have to have signs like “public masturbation” or public viewing of porn, etc. One knows these things are wrong, one is not ignorant of the moral law because one does not walk into a second grade classroom and start masturbating. One is embarrassed by it (or should be)
H
Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
We have been over this before. but how do you reconcile this to your faith. The Church says EXACTLY the opposite of what you say. IN fact the Church has the POWER to bind and loose sin. This is given to Her by Christ in the Bible. It is what we base our entire faith on. And in this instance the CHurch has said, using the power, I declare this a mortal sin. You claim that it is not a big deal, that it is inconsequential that you disagree but it could not be more consequential.Thank you for the question
I believe that masturbation is something that will hurt the person who does it more than anyone else. I also believe the same for fornication - it hurts the fornicators more than anyone else. Because sexual sin is something that affects our purity. After commiting sexual sin, the person with a moral conscience feels like he/she is dirty, it’s a sensation of uncleaness and unholyness that is not nice to be felt. I also believe it opens the door for demonic action on us (because every sin we commit opens the door for the demons). But God loves us even when we are being immoral. So it’s not masturbation that is going to separate us from Him. To sum it all up, I believe masturbation is a sin, just not a mortal sin.
I also noticed one thing that happens to me… When I feel disapointed or sad for whatever reason, it makes me much more likely to masturbate. I know it’s not good but it’s something that happens but I know God will forgive me and it’s not like it’s the end of the world because I had a wank.
Well that’s it!
How can you trust a faith that you believe is wrong on the very issue of salvation?
Why can’t you just say, I know this is wrong, I know it is mortal, I commit it and I confess it? Why can you not accept God’s mercy? Why do you have to make it not a mortal sin to justify a lewd act that could land you in jail if you do it in public?
J
josh987654321
Guest
Thank you for the question
I believe that masturbation is something that will hurt the person who does it more than anyone else. I also believe the same for fornication - it hurts the fornicators more than anyone else. Because sexual sin is something that affects our purity. After commiting sexual sin, the person with a moral conscience feels like he/she is dirty, it’s a sensation of uncleaness and unholyness that is not nice to be felt. I also believe it opens the door for demonic action on us (because every sin we commit opens the door for the demons). But God loves us even when we are being immoral. So it’s not masturbation that is going to separate us from Him.
I believe this is all we need.
Do you remember the parable of Simon the Pharisee and the sinful woman?
Simon the Pharisee:
I believe Bishop Fulton J. Sheen addresses this beautifully in his book ‘Life of Christ’
He say’s *It was not the quantity of sin, but rather the consciousness of it and the mercy extended in it’s forgiveness, which manifested the great love of this woman.
When a person has a consciousness of sin, he does not very much distinguish between whether his sins belong in the five hundred pieces of silver category or the fifty. What troubles him is the fact that he has hurt someone that he loves. St. Paul considered himself the ‘cheif of sinners’
He who makes light of sin will make light of forgiveness. He who makes light of really serious wounds will never appreaciate the power of the physician.*
If the light uncovers our sins, love is also there ready to cover them.
I hope you will not mind if I share with you some tips I have come accross to help quit.
C.S. Lewis:
Please continue to next post -
J
josh987654321
Guest
Continued from above post -
Motivational Tips to Help You Quit -
Keep the following 3 Ds in mind when you have a craving
Delay: remember that the worst cravings last for only a few minutes and will become even less frequent the longer you have quit.
**Deep breath: **this should help you relax and focus your mind on something else.
Do something else: you could listen to music or pray (pray is usually the best). Find something that keeps your mind busy and distracted and focus on it, don’t allow your thoughts to go into temptation, when tempted, do not give the temptation any attention, instead give it your back.
**1) **A slip up doesn’t mean you’ve failed. What’s important is to work out how you can stop a slip up from happening next time.
2) Don’t say “this is my last time” say “I’m not going to give in today” and take one day at a time.
3) Each craving only lasts a few minutes. Don’t let this be the day that you blow it.
**
4)** Once you have quit for a while, the desires to give in will be much less intense and frequent and remember, the worst cravings only last a few minutes, so remember the 3 D’s above (Delay, Deep Breathe, Do something else).
**5) **It’s important that it’s your decision to quit. That you want to quit and that you feel confident you can succeed.
**6) **Be clear about your reason to quit. It will motivate you to keep going.
7) The most dangerous thought you can have is. I will just give in this one time.
**8) **You may feel as if you have just lost a friend, but really you have just lost your worst enemy.
**9) **Remember the sooner you quit. The sooner you will reap the benefits.
**10) **The more times you try to quit. The better you will get at it until you quit for good.
11) Immediately get rid of any provocative magazines/images etc anything that reminds you of giving in (Otherwise It’s like those who say* “I’m going on a diet”* yet fill their cupboard with junk food, it isn’t going to work, you can’t rely on will power when it comes to these things, you need to set your environment up so that it pulls for your success).
12) Practise saying to yourself “No thanks, I’m chaste/pure”
13) Avoid challenging occasions where there may be provocative images.
**
14)** If you are feeling tense Exercise, lift some weights, take a walk or go for a jog.
15) The most common quitting method for most people is to stop suddenly Go cold turkey.
16) When you quit you might feel some different withdrawal symptoms This is because your body is re-adjusting to being without, it will pass.
When it comes to such desires, I believe they are addictive in nature much the same as things like smoking are, so if you view it as an addiction like smoking, I believe there are dozens of very, very affective resources out there to help you quit. Remember the worst cravings only last a few minutes and they become less intense and frequent the longer you have quit and do not fear you will lose your sex drive, (I believe that is like saying to an acoholic that he is ‘cured’) this is why motivational tip number** 7** is “The most dangerous thought you can have is. I will just give in this one time.”
Remember to simply take one day at a time and tell yourself “don’t let this be the day that you blow it.”
I believe this site is also helpful - chastity.org/
Never Give up Giving Up - quit.org.au/keep-quitting/
Please continue to next post -
Motivational Tips to Help You Quit -
Keep the following 3 Ds in mind when you have a craving
Delay: remember that the worst cravings last for only a few minutes and will become even less frequent the longer you have quit.
**Deep breath: **this should help you relax and focus your mind on something else.
Do something else: you could listen to music or pray (pray is usually the best). Find something that keeps your mind busy and distracted and focus on it, don’t allow your thoughts to go into temptation, when tempted, do not give the temptation any attention, instead give it your back.
**1) **A slip up doesn’t mean you’ve failed. What’s important is to work out how you can stop a slip up from happening next time.
2) Don’t say “this is my last time” say “I’m not going to give in today” and take one day at a time.
3) Each craving only lasts a few minutes. Don’t let this be the day that you blow it.
**
4)** Once you have quit for a while, the desires to give in will be much less intense and frequent and remember, the worst cravings only last a few minutes, so remember the 3 D’s above (Delay, Deep Breathe, Do something else).
**5) **It’s important that it’s your decision to quit. That you want to quit and that you feel confident you can succeed.
**6) **Be clear about your reason to quit. It will motivate you to keep going.
7) The most dangerous thought you can have is. I will just give in this one time.
**8) **You may feel as if you have just lost a friend, but really you have just lost your worst enemy.
**9) **Remember the sooner you quit. The sooner you will reap the benefits.
**10) **The more times you try to quit. The better you will get at it until you quit for good.
11) Immediately get rid of any provocative magazines/images etc anything that reminds you of giving in (Otherwise It’s like those who say* “I’m going on a diet”* yet fill their cupboard with junk food, it isn’t going to work, you can’t rely on will power when it comes to these things, you need to set your environment up so that it pulls for your success).
12) Practise saying to yourself “No thanks, I’m chaste/pure”
13) Avoid challenging occasions where there may be provocative images.
**
14)** If you are feeling tense Exercise, lift some weights, take a walk or go for a jog.
15) The most common quitting method for most people is to stop suddenly Go cold turkey.
16) When you quit you might feel some different withdrawal symptoms This is because your body is re-adjusting to being without, it will pass.
When it comes to such desires, I believe they are addictive in nature much the same as things like smoking are, so if you view it as an addiction like smoking, I believe there are dozens of very, very affective resources out there to help you quit. Remember the worst cravings only last a few minutes and they become less intense and frequent the longer you have quit and do not fear you will lose your sex drive, (I believe that is like saying to an acoholic that he is ‘cured’) this is why motivational tip number** 7** is “The most dangerous thought you can have is. I will just give in this one time.”
Remember to simply take one day at a time and tell yourself “don’t let this be the day that you blow it.”
I believe this site is also helpful - chastity.org/
Never Give up Giving Up - quit.org.au/keep-quitting/
Please continue to next post -
J
josh987654321
Guest
Continued from above post -
I would also like to share with you two extracts out of the book ‘Imitation of Christ’ by Thomas A Kempis on temptations.
Extract from the book 'Imitation of Christ' by Thomas A Kempis:
I would also like to share with you two extracts out of the book ‘Imitation of Christ’ by Thomas A Kempis on temptations.
Extract from the book 'Imitation of Christ' by Thomas A Kempis:
Please continue to next post -
J
josh987654321
Guest
Continued from above post -
Extract from the book 'Imitation of Christ' by Thomas A Kempis:
Extract from the book 'Imitation of Christ' by Thomas A Kempis:
Please continue to next post -
J
josh987654321
Guest
Continued from above post -
And remember, Jesus fell three times carrying His cross to Calvary, The first to show sinners who are use to sinning that they can convert and have the strength even though they have fallen into sin. The second for those souls who fail because they are frail or those souls who are blinded by sadness and restlessness that they can get up and embark with courage upon the path of virtue and the third for those souls who depart from sin at the hour of death.
“The sinner who feels within himself a total deprivation of all that is holy, pure, and solemn because of sin, the sinner who in his own eyes is in utter darkness, severed from the hope of salvation, from the light of life, and from the communion of saints, is himself the friend whom Jesus invited to dinner, the one who was asked to come out from behind the hedges, the one asked to be a partner in His wedding and an heir to God… Whoever is poor, hungry, sinful, fallen or ignorant is the guest of Christ.” — Matthew the Poor
"My daughter, know that My Heart is mercy itself. From this sea of mercy, graces flow out upon the whole world. No soul that has approached Me has ever gone away unconsoled. All misery gets buried in the depths of My mercy, and every saving and sanctifying grace flows from this fountain…" (Diary, 1777).
"Mankind will not have peace until it turns with trust to My mercy. Oh, how much I am hurt by a soul’s distrust! Such a soul professes that I am Holy and Just, but does not believe that I am Mercy and does not trust in My Goodness. Even the devils glorify My Justice but do not believe in My Goodness" (Diary, 300).
**“My mercy is greater than your sins and those of the entire world. Who can measure the extent of my goodness? For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart. Your misery has disappeared in the depths of My mercy” **(Diary, 1485).
"…who will proclaim My great mercy. I shall protect them Myself at the hour of death, as My own glory. And even if the sins of souls were as dark as night, when the sinner turns to My mercy, he gives Me the greatest praise and is the glory of My Passion. When a soul extols My goodness, Satan trembles before it and flees to the very bottom of hell" (Diary, 378).
**“My Heart overflows with great mercy for souls, and especially for poor sinners. If only they could understand that I am the best of Fathers to them and that it is for them that the Blood and Water flowed from My Heart as from a fount overflowing with mercy. For them I dwell in the tabernacle as King of Mercy. I desire to bestow My graces upon souls, but they do not want to accept them. You, at least, come to Me as often as possible and take these graces they do not want to accept. In this way you will console My Heart…” **(Diary, 367).
Oh, if sinners knew My mercy, they would not perish in such great numbers. Tell sinful souls not to be afraid to approach Me; speak to them of My great mercy" (Diary, 1396).
"The souls that say this chaplet will be embraced by My mercy during their lifetime and especially at the hour of their death" (Diary, 754).
How to pray the Chaplet of Devine Mercy
The Image
http://s8.postimg.org/422f1cyxh/Christ_9.jpg
I hope I have helped (I apologise for the length).
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
And remember, Jesus fell three times carrying His cross to Calvary, The first to show sinners who are use to sinning that they can convert and have the strength even though they have fallen into sin. The second for those souls who fail because they are frail or those souls who are blinded by sadness and restlessness that they can get up and embark with courage upon the path of virtue and the third for those souls who depart from sin at the hour of death.
“The sinner who feels within himself a total deprivation of all that is holy, pure, and solemn because of sin, the sinner who in his own eyes is in utter darkness, severed from the hope of salvation, from the light of life, and from the communion of saints, is himself the friend whom Jesus invited to dinner, the one who was asked to come out from behind the hedges, the one asked to be a partner in His wedding and an heir to God… Whoever is poor, hungry, sinful, fallen or ignorant is the guest of Christ.” — Matthew the Poor
"My daughter, know that My Heart is mercy itself. From this sea of mercy, graces flow out upon the whole world. No soul that has approached Me has ever gone away unconsoled. All misery gets buried in the depths of My mercy, and every saving and sanctifying grace flows from this fountain…" (Diary, 1777).
"Mankind will not have peace until it turns with trust to My mercy. Oh, how much I am hurt by a soul’s distrust! Such a soul professes that I am Holy and Just, but does not believe that I am Mercy and does not trust in My Goodness. Even the devils glorify My Justice but do not believe in My Goodness" (Diary, 300).
**“My mercy is greater than your sins and those of the entire world. Who can measure the extent of my goodness? For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart. Your misery has disappeared in the depths of My mercy” **(Diary, 1485).
"…who will proclaim My great mercy. I shall protect them Myself at the hour of death, as My own glory. And even if the sins of souls were as dark as night, when the sinner turns to My mercy, he gives Me the greatest praise and is the glory of My Passion. When a soul extols My goodness, Satan trembles before it and flees to the very bottom of hell" (Diary, 378).
**“My Heart overflows with great mercy for souls, and especially for poor sinners. If only they could understand that I am the best of Fathers to them and that it is for them that the Blood and Water flowed from My Heart as from a fount overflowing with mercy. For them I dwell in the tabernacle as King of Mercy. I desire to bestow My graces upon souls, but they do not want to accept them. You, at least, come to Me as often as possible and take these graces they do not want to accept. In this way you will console My Heart…” **(Diary, 367).
Oh, if sinners knew My mercy, they would not perish in such great numbers. Tell sinful souls not to be afraid to approach Me; speak to them of My great mercy" (Diary, 1396).
"The souls that say this chaplet will be embraced by My mercy during their lifetime and especially at the hour of their death" (Diary, 754).
How to pray the Chaplet of Devine Mercy
The Image
http://s8.postimg.org/422f1cyxh/Christ_9.jpg
I hope I have helped (I apologise for the length).
God Bless
Thank you for reading
Josh
J
Jaaanosik
Guest
You lost me on this one.
Nevertheless, this is interesting.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424416/Swedish-court-rules-IS-legal-masturbate-public-directed-specific.html
I am not saying the masturbation is right just that there is more to it then we might know.
- Status