Masturbation

[Creiddylad]

Where in the bible is masturbation mentioned? I’d like to know what the bible says, not the Catechism if someone could help me out.

I assume it must be the most gravest sin of all since there’s so many threads here and so much information on how to overcome it. In fact, there’s more about it than there is about stuff like being a good person, helping each other out especially those less fortunate than ourselves, social justice, and all that stuff Christ taught us about, or so I thought. I guess I didn’t realize that this was all it came down to in trying to be a good Christian.

 

[Alterum]

I assume it must be the most gravest sin of all since there’s so many threads here and so much information on how to overcome it. In fact, there’s more about it than there is about stuff like being a good person, helping each other out especially those less fortunate than ourselves, social justice, and all that stuff Christ taught us about, or so I thought. I guess I didn’t realize that this was all it came down to in trying to be a good Christian.

There are far too many posts on this forum about masturbation and other random sexual practices. It’s really disheartening and it makes me want to avoid the “Moral Theology” sub-forum altogether. I wish the moderators would ban posts about masturbation; it takes seconds of research to see that the Catholic Church is completely against masturbation, and why.

With regard to your comment, being a good Christian involves freeing oneself of sin. The Bible does not list every sin, although sexual sins may be inferred from precriptions against impurity. Onan was killed for spilling his seed.

 

[Crusade_Guy]

Is masturbation considered a grave/mortal sin in the catholic church? If so, why? What is the reasoning behind it?

For anyone who’s familiar with Dobson – what about his view that masturbation as a purely physical act – i.e., there is no lust or impure thought involved, no thoughts of other women/men – is okay?

I didn’t know the catholic church had an “official view” on this.

So can a man sleep with another woman and it not be considered adultery as long as he isn’t thinking about the woman he is sleeping with?

 

[Gwythr]

Onan was killed for spilling his seed.

If you actually look in the bible, Onan was killed for disobeying God’s command to knock-up his brother’s wife. He did go to his brother’s wife, and he did “have relations” with her, so to speak. The bible makes that point very clear. And yes, his seed fell to the ground, though this was not through an act of masturbation.

So in other words, the real reason Onan was killed was for disobeying God, not for masturbating. In fact, there was no masturbating done at all in the story of Onan.

 

[lois_lane]

So can a man sleep with another woman and it not be considered adultery as long as he isn’t thinking about the woman he is sleeping with?

No…Masturbation, as a physical act in and of itself, doesn’t involve another person.

Look, I’m not saying I agree with Dobson’s view, just pointing it out. Didn’t realize this was such a hot topic.

In fact, there’s more about it than there is about stuff like being a good person, helping each other out especially those less fortunate than ourselves, social justice, and all that stuff Christ taught us about, or so I thought. I guess I didn’t realize that this was all it came down to in trying to be a good Christian.

I think I’m sort of on this wagon as well.

 

[tassitus]

…I assume it must be the most gravest sin of all since there’s so many threads here and so much information on how to overcome it. In fact, there’s more about it than there is about stuff like being a good person, helping each other out especially those less fortunate than ourselves, social justice, and all that stuff Christ taught us about, or so I thought. I guess I didn’t realize that this was all it came down to in trying to be a good Christian.

While also welcoming you to these forums, I do find it interesting in light of your above complaint that all 6 of your posts to date have been on the subjects of lust, sex/contraception, and masturbation.

Apparently, you have valid questions in this and related areas, and hence the existence of these forums and the many, many posts on this sort of topic.

If the area of social justice also interests you and you are unable to find relevant threads, by all means please feel free to start new ones. You may be pleasantly surprised at the level of participation you will encounter in the many other areas you have not yet explored on these forums.

Peace all.

 

[setter]

Some men have noticed that while doing abdominal exercises, blood flows to the private area and may cause an erection and/or ejacualtion. If a husband wanted to keep his abdominals in shape as something to offer his wife and he knew that sometimes it caused ejaculation but was not done with the intent of actually ejaculating, would this be a grave sin?

I believe that this is Question #266 from the book “1000 ways to ejaculate without incurring the culpability of mortal sin” – NOT.

 

[Timidity]

I wish the moderators would ban posts about masturbation;

And yet you can’t help but read the threads when they do occur?

 

[StCsDavid]

Where in the bible is masturbation mentioned? I’d like to know what the bible says, not the Catechism if someone could help me out.

Where in the bible does it say being a lesbian is a sin? It talks about two men lying together, but I’ve never read anything about two women? Yet we believe that two women acting out their sexual impulses outside the covenant of sacramental marriage to be sinful. We believe a man and a woman doing each other outside of sacramental marriage to be sinful. Why would we believe differently for one man flying solo outside the covenant of sacramental marriage?

 

[setter]

It’s the abwheel. It works out your abs so hard that it happens (at least to me).

I all due respect, you have got to be kidding …this is beginning to read like a transcript from a boys high school locker room …if you are actually serious and have not yet figured out the prudent action to take, I will now tell simply and plainly: Lose the abwheel, and maturely figure out how not to inadvertently stimulate your genital area, lest you are wantonly guilty of grave sin.

PRUDENCE. Correct knowledge about things to be done or, more broadly, the knowledge of things that ought to be done and of things that ought to be avoided. It is the intellectual virtue whereby a human being recognizes in any matter at hand what is good and what is evil. In this sense, it is the moral virtue that enables a person to devise, choose, and prepare suitable means for the attainment of any purpose or the avoidance of any evil. Prudence resides in the practical intellect and is both acquired by one’s own acts and infused at the same time as sanctifying grace. It may be said to be natural as developed by us, and supernatural because conferred by God. As an act of virtue, prudence involves three stages of mental operation: to take counsel carefully with oneself and from others; to judge correctly on the basis of the evidence at hand; and to direct the rest of one’s activity according to the norms determined after a prudent judgment has been made. (Etym. Latin prudentia, foresight in the practical order; from providentia, foresight, directive care, providence.)

 

[Timidity]

Where in the bible is masturbation mentioned? I’d like to know what the bible says, not the Catechism if someone could help me out.

Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only source of divine revelation? (I’ll give you a hint–it doesn’t. In fact it says just the opposite).

I assume it must be the most gravest sin of all since there’s so many threads here and so much information on how to overcome it. In fact, there’s more about it than there is about stuff like being a good person, helping each other out especially those less fortunate than ourselves, social justice, and all that stuff Christ taught us about

Most people already know how to help out those less fortunate. You don’t really need to start too many threads about “How do I write a check to Catholic Charities?” or “How do I donate my time and effort to the local homeless shelter” because most people already know how to do that.

On the other hand, a lot of people apparently struggle with sexual sins, and they don’t know how to overcome them, so they come here seeking help and advice. And, being good Christians, we like to “help each other out”, just like you said.

 

[Transformer]

…I assume it must be the most gravest sin of all since there’s so many threads here and so much information on how to overcome it. In fact, there’s more about it than there is about stuff like being a good person, helping each other out especially those less fortunate than ourselves, social justice, and all that stuff Christ taught us about, or so I thought. I guess I didn’t realize that this was all it came down to in trying to be a good Christian.

This is the moral theology forum. To suppose that the posts on this forum make up to sum total of the spirituality of all of the Christians on it is not at all a good idea. Most of the posters here spend 15-30 minutes on the forum each day, and yes, all they do here is ask and answer about specific sins: And no wonder, that’s what the forum is for. I don’t pray rosaries when I’m in a clothing store, but it would foolish for someone to suppose I don’t pray at all simple because I’m not in that specific circumstance. This is the moral theology forum; if you would like to discuss more important things than masturbation and driving over the speed limit, that’s excellent; but you arn’t going to be able to on a forum that’s specifically tailored to discussions of that nature.

Of course charity is more important than most of the topics discussed here; we all know that, and we put it into practice every day. This forum is the one place we go designed for nothing more than discussion of specific sins; let it serve its purpose. This forum does not represent the whole spirituality of those who occasionally visit it.

God bless.

 

[Gwythr]

Couldn’t the unintentional ejaculation be considered the same as a wet dream? Are those considered sinful? I’ve got mixed opinions about that… If the person isn’t intentionally doing it for the purpose of masturbation, then what’s the fault if he happens to ejaculate? Sometimes one can’t help having a wet dream when they go to sleep, but does that mean we shouldn’t sleep because of the fear of wet dreams? Perhaps the difference is that the person is awake? To me, it doesn’t seem like it would be a sin if it’s not intentional.

btw, I’m not trolling here or anything =P

 

[obscured]

all of you ask JESUS what he thinks… or thought…YOU cant fool Him

 

[Creiddylad]

Where in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the only source of divine revelation? (I’ll give you a hint–it doesn’t. In fact it says just the opposite).

Most people already know how to help out those less fortunate. You don’t really need to start too many threads about “How do I write a check to Catholic Charities?” or “How do I donate my time and effort to the local homeless shelter” because most people already know how to do that.

On the other hand, a lot of people apparently struggle with sexual sins, and they don’t know how to overcome them, so they come here seeking help and advice. And, being good Christians, we like to “help each other out”, just like you said.

The bible is the Word of God. If you follow other such sources of so-called “divine revelation” then what you’re doing in essence is following man-made doctrines and traditions, some which may be contrary to Christ’s teachings (which a lot of them are) Other sources are merely interpretations, and twisted beliefs of what the bible says. So sure, follow the CCC but then don’t say it’s necessarily “God’s will” you’re following, rather it’s rules and doctrines people themselves have created.

I didn’t say they didn’t know how to help those less fortunate, but there’s a difference between knowing how to do something and actually doing it. My point was too much emphasis is placed on being a “sexually pure person” than actually being a “good” person. Do we consider someone who is completely “pure” a better person than someone who devotes their life to fighting for the greater good of society? I get the impression that’s what a lot of you believe and I find that very sad indeed. And I haven’t seen much on this board about people doing their part for social justice by devoting their time to homeless shelters and giving money to charity. I’m not saying that doing these things necessarily makes you a “good person” but it’s certainly a lot more important and benefits society more than being “sexually pure” does.

I don’t personally consider it an act of good christianity instilling fear and guilt into young people about something so common, natural and even as healthy as masturbation. Especially since the whole “masturbation is a sin!!1” belief didn’t come from the bible, so in essence people are feeling like they’re worthless, horrible people for doing it when it’s simply something that people have decided to call a “immoral” thing. I respect others beliefs but I don’t respect others who make it their duty to make others feel ashamed and disgusted at themselves over something that’s completely blown out of proportion, doesn’t harm anyone and isn’t even a belief that has biblical basis.

But of course, it seems our views of what it takes to be a good christian differ, so you continue on with “helping others” overcome their “sexual sins” and I’ll go and do my bit to make the world a better and fairer place, ok?

 

[tassitus]

…I don’t personally consider it an act of good christianity instilling fear and guilt into young people about something so common, natural and even as healthy as masturbation… I respect others beliefs but I don’t respect others who make it their duty to make others feel ashamed and disgusted at themselves over something that’s completely blown out of proportion, doesn’t harm anyone and isn’t even a belief that has biblical basis.

The bolded text taken from your most recent post are two of our current culture’s biggest lies; I ask that you not try to spread them here.

Again, the focus of many of these threads is on what good Christians are having trouble with in their lives. Most of us do not have trouble with the various social duties to which we are called, and so do not need the advice and suggestions of our fellow Christians on such matters.

In peace.

 

[ForwardProgress]

The bolded text taken from your most recent post are two of our current culture’s biggest lies; I ask that you not try to spread them here.

Again, the focus of many of these threads is on what good Christians are having trouble with in their lives. Most of us do not have trouble with the various social duties to which we are called, and so do not need the advice and suggestions of our fellow Christians on such matters.

In peace.

I agree…once I overcame this sin, I realized what a mockery it makes of marriage and how wierd and disordered it is.

If you’ve ever watched a movie that has a love scene in it (just a beautiful scene, not erotic or porno or anything), two people in love making love is a beautiful thing. Just the way the two come together and are one. It is almost art.

Now (if you can watch without it causing sin to you) a movie that portrays a man, uh, making love by himself. That is the most humiliating and disgusting thing to ever see.

What would you be most ashamed of (if at all):

1. Mom or Dad decide to come visit and accidently walk in on you and your wife making love.
2. Mom or Dad walking in on you by yourself, hunched over, and …

It’s truly wierd and takes so much away from lovemaking and what the act truly is.

 

[Creiddylad]

The bolded text taken from your most recent post are two of our current culture’s biggest lies; I ask that you not try to spread them here.

Again, the focus of many of these threads is on what good Christians are having trouble with in their lives. Most of us do not have trouble with the various social duties to which we are called, and so do not need the advice and suggestions of our fellow Christians on such matters.

In peace.

Thanks for clarifying what I already knew all along: that I was right. The fact you avoided everything I said and didn’t even try and defend your viewpoint leads me inclined to believe you don’t really know what you’re arguing for, and why you believe it. All you could do was call my opinion ‘lies’ which doesn’t bear much scrutiny. In the face of challenge is when we realize how strong our beliefs really are.

Remember, if you can’t defend your beliefs they are hardly beliefs in the first place.

 

[mnowlin1]

So what do you say to the person who doean’t get to experience the joy of lovemaking because their spouse has absolutely no desire to do so?

 

[kierabeth]

Hi, Creiddylad, I think we’re both pretty new at this forum stuff. I’ll put my two cents in here and hope that it helps…

I’m with you on serving others and seeking to improve our world. That’s what Jesus’ teaching was all about, right? But God has also said that we are to be holy as He is holy. That’s where all of this sexual purity (and a great many other things) stuff comes in…

You would probably be interested in reading some of what Pope John Paul II taught about marriage and sexuality in his “Theology of the Body.” (Especially look at Christopher West’s work in this area.) Perhaps you don’t have a great interest in what one of our popes has had to say… but I hope you will go with me for a moment and realize that what he taught comes from an ancient Christian ethic. (I would be happy to discuss with you another day, perhaps, why it matters so much what a pope has to say… but that’s another issue.)

Anyway, the Theology of the Body is wonderful stuff and brings great clarity to those of us that are seeking to understand these ancient Christian teachings. I’ve assimilated it this way: as the only creatures made in God’s very image (see Genesis), we alone have the ability to model who He is, and that is Love (see 1 John). His lives Love in the Communion of Persons of the Trinity, and we model it in a particular way in the relationship between a husband and a wife (remember, “it is not good for the man to be alone…”). We are authentically living in God’s image when our love is free, total, faithful and fruitful in our marriage just as God’s is in His Communion of Persons. Therefore, like no one took Christ’s life from Him (He willingly gave himself), we must love freely; as Christ gave every bit of Himself to us on the cross, so we must love totally; as even though a mother may forget her child Christ will never forget or leave us, so we must love faithfully; and as Christ’s work in our lives bears much fruit - most especially our hope of salvation! - so we must love fruitfully.

This is a pretty radical way of looking at sexuality in our culture! And the consequences are far reaching. Clearly something like infidelity violates the guiding principles of our love being free, total, faithful and fruitful. But these principles also shed light on why some of the difficult issues like contraception and masturbation are not good for us and hinder our authentic imaging of God. For example, contracepting individuals are not **free **in their engaging in sexual union, for the essence of contraception is an inability to say “no” to sex. And if someone can’t say “no,” how free, really, is their “yes?” Additionally, contracepting individuals are not loving their spouses totally; they are withholding their fertility. The sexual act says, “I give you all of me;” add contraception to the equation and it says, “I give you all of me except this thing that I want to purposefully withhold from you.” The contraceptive individual is also not **faithful **to the marriage vows, which in the Catholic Church explicitly include a promise to be open to the gift of children; this is one of the cornerstones of Christian marraige. And the way in which contraception violates the principle of our love being **fruitful **is obvious.

So here’s the point: masturbation is a distortion of this call to love like God loves. It is compulsive, self-centered and the antithesis of fruitful. It doesn’t make us better people; when we masturbate we don’t grow in virtue or holiness. The connection between being “good” and being “sexually pure” is very strong because our sexuality is holy as it is a primary way that we make God’s image known in the world!

Hope this is helpful! May God bless and guide us all!