Mathew 23

[teachccd]

Jesus also said if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. How do you type so quickly with one eye and one hand??..teachccd

 

[teachccd]

I put my shoes on one at a time, just like everyone else.

Jesus also said if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. How do you type so quickly with one eye and one hand??..teachccd

 

[teachccd]

You didn’t actually go out and pluck out your eye and cut off your hand, now did you?? Since you never came back you have me worried. I was only making a point… teachccd

 

[geometer]

You didn’t actually go out and pluck out your eye and cut off your hand, now did you?? Since you never came back you have me worried. I was only making a point… teachccd

I didn’t get the point that you were making, so I didn’t know what to say…

 

[teachccd]

I didn’t get the point that you were making, so I didn’t know what to say…

The point is that when Jesus said to “Call no man father” He wasn’t speaking literally no more than when He said if your eye causes you to sin pluck it out. It is hyperbole to stress a point. I was saying it in jest and I apologize for the confusion…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

Father Ray Ryland writes here on Catholic answers:

Initially, you might respond, “What do you call your mother’s husband?” If a Catholic is wrong in calling his priest “father,” then so is everyone who refers to his own natural father in that way Both usages would be prohibited by a literal interpretation of Jesus’ words.

Jesus came not to abolish the law of the Old Covenant but to fulfill it (Mt 5:17). If in Matthew 23:9 he is forbidding us even to acknowledge our natural fathers as “father,” how can we keep the fifth commandment (“Honor your father and your mother”)?

Look again at the passage in question. In contrast to the attitudes of the Pharisees, Jesus is specifying the qualities Christian leaders must exhibit (Mt 23:1-12). The Pharisees.aspired to being called “rabbi” (or “master” or “teacher”), leaders of schools of thought. Among the schools headed by teachers called “rabbi,” there were many divergences of belief, some of them in actual contradiction.

A similar situation prevailed with regard to the term “father” (in Aramaic, abba, a title of honor). The title was given to well-known Jewish religious authorities. As with “rabbi,” so with “father”: The term designated the progenitor of a particular, even contradictory, interpretation of the Jewish faith.

Why did Jesus declare that no Christian leader is to be called “rabbi” or “father”? In Matthew 23:1-2, and especially in verses 8-10, Jesus is condemning the formation of contradictory schools of thought in his Church. The role of leaders in Christ’s Church is faithfully to hand on Christ’s teaching received through the apostles (Mt 28:19). The words of Paul epitomize the essential attitude of the Christian teacher: “This is what I received from the Lord and in turn passed on to you” (1 Cor 11:23).

The history of Protestantism is essentially the story of this very process—the unending proliferation of sectarian groups, saying “I am for Martin Luther,” or “I am for John Calvin,” or “I am for John Wesley.”

Incidentally, both Old and New Testaments associate priesthood with fatherhood (cf. Jgs 17:10 and 18:19 and 1 Cor 4:15), but in this case, Jesus’ command is not violated. Being a simple priest is in no way turning yourself into a guru and founding your own school of thought.

 

[Reuben_J]

Jesus never asked to be called father, they called him master at times but in the end he said that he had taught them everything and he was no longer master, but friend.

Everybody on earth knows that priests are called father.

I called my own father dad which is welch for father. But my dad was actually a father, Jesus wasn’t as far as we know, and most catholic priests are not fathers.

I do not have to argue about this issue, I know catholics will argue endlessly about this embarassment. But it is not mine, I am not pretending to be anyones father.

I think we are lost in squabbling about the words that Jesus used and forget why Jesus actually taught them.

You have to know the relationship of the rabbi/seer/master and his pupils. Pupils/disciples were treated like dirt. They were nothing because they have no wisdom. Until they learned from the master they were useless and disrespected. And the master lord it upon them. The disciples were at the mercy of the master; their only aim was to learn and obtain wisdom that the master can only give. Until they had learned enough they could not do nothing but to follow the master. The master exploited this and treated them in the most despicable way that you can imagine.

The disciples may not eat or sit with the master. When they walked in the street they would walked a few paces behind the master because they could never be seen as equal to him.

Thus when Jesus came and introduced a new relationship between pupils and master, it was a revolutionary practice. Jesus not only loved his disciples but he took them as equal and considered them even his friends - an idea that was totally revolting to the teachers of the law then.

This is what Jesus taught - do not lord it over your pupils. He used the word father and master because this was literally what pupils considered their master. The master is a father because he gave them wisdom of life that enable them to live just like what a real father does to his children. He was their master just as master is to a slave. Jesus said NO to all this.

You have to understand this background and why Jesus taught that teaching. It was NEVER not to call a person father or master. It only meant never to use them in the context teachers of his day used them with their disciples.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

 

[geometer]

You have to understand this background and why Jesus taught that teaching. It was NEVER not to call a person father or master.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ.

 

[Luke65]

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ.

You still think you understand what our Lord meant better than His own Apostles? Better than virtually all the Christians who came before you? Chutzpah!

 

[Reuben_J]

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ.

This is the tragedy when you open a book that was written two thousand years ago and start looking at a 21st century dictionary to decipher what it means without knowing the culture, the background, the specific incidents, and why it was written.

Rather than going back in time to when the book was written you are trying to see it with your modern glass and today world. Well, Jesus lived in a different time than us. While nothing much has changed in term of human aspiration and behavior, the world was different then. It is a tragic folly to disregard the context in which the text was written.

As been pointed out, the Bible will never contradict itself. And so, you will do well to dig deep to know why the teaching was taught.

 

[geometer]

You still think you understand what our Lord meant better than His own Apostles? Better than virtually all the Christians who came before you? Chutzpah!

I simply quoted the scripture. It seemed that it had been forgotten, among all the words…

Where do you get your Chutzpah from?

I know where I get mine.

 

[Reuben_J]

Originally Posted by Reuben J:

You have to understand this background and why Jesus taught that teaching. It was NEVER not to call a person father or master.

geometer:

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ.

You made grave error when you quoted my post you omitted the next sentence which I highlighted because that was the key to understand the verses.
Originally Posted by Reuben J:

You have to understand this background and why Jesus taught that teaching. It was NEVER not to call a person father or master. It only meant never to use them in the context teachers of his day used them with their disciples.

 

[Luke65]

Where do you get your Chutzpah from?

The Fall.

I know where I get mine.

:nope:

 

[geometer]

The Fall.

:nope:

Chutzpah means courage.

 

[geometer]

You made grave error when you quoted my post you omitted the next sentence which I highlighted because that was the key to understand the verses.

Never say never…

 

[RAngelo]

I didn’t get the point that you were making, so I didn’t know what to say…

I think he was speaking literally because he also said it would be better to loose a part of the body than the whole body. So I believe Jesus when he said call no man father for you only have one father in heaven.

Love with blessings

 

[beehumble]

I have heard this argued over and over, and I don’t fully agree with the sides of the argument that I have heard. The scriptures say do not tempt God, but I think catholics like to walk on the wild side…

But you haven’t said why you do not agree. Simply saying I do not agree does not win any points.

Why don’t you agree? So we are never to call any man “teacher”? Or can we call people “teacher”. Context matters, stick with the entire quote and explain both Jesus’ speaking of “father” AND Jesus speaking of “teacher” please.

Please explain why do you not agree with those arguments?

 

[TimothyH]

I think we are lost in squabbling about the words that Jesus used and forget why Jesus actually taught them.

You have to know the relationship of the rabbi/seer/master and his pupils. Pupils/disciples were treated like dirt. They were nothing because they have no wisdom. Until they learned from the master they were useless and disrespected. And the master lord it upon them. The disciples were at the mercy of the master; their only aim was to learn and obtain wisdom that the master can only give. Until they had learned enough they could not do nothing but to follow the master. The master exploited this and treated them in the most despicable way that you can imagine.

The disciples may not eat or sit with the master. When they walked in the street they would walked a few paces behind the master because they could never be seen as equal to him.

Thus when Jesus came and introduced a new relationship between pupils and master, it was a revolutionary practice. Jesus not only loved his disciples but he took them as equal and considered them even his friends - an idea that was totally revolting to the teachers of the law then.

This is what Jesus taught - do not lord it over your pupils. He used the word father and master because this was literally what pupils considered their master. The master is a father because he gave them wisdom of life that enable them to live just like what a real father does to his children. He was their master just as master is to a slave. Jesus said NO to all this.

You have to understand this background and why Jesus taught that teaching. It was NEVER not to call a person father or master. It only meant never to use them in the context teachers of his day used them with their disciples.

I love this stuff, the social customs of the day, the economic and political context under which Jesus spoke and what his words meant to those who actually heard him speak. It makes scripture come alive. Thank you!

I have heard that the passage re. call no man father was a reference to Abraham as the Father of Faith, that you were not to call any man the founder of your religion because God the Father gave it to us through Jesus Christ.

-Tim-