Matt 24:30 fall of Jerusalem or still future event?

[alwayswill]

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

" For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be"
<Would that be worse then The Flood where nearly every single person died?>

“And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved.”
<Does the Fall of Jerusalem seem to be the type of event that If God did not cut it short,“no human being would survive”?>

Was Jesus referring to the upcoming fall of Jerusalem around 70 AD or to some still future event that has not yet happened?
Thank you;

 

[Neofight]

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

" For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be"
<Would that be worse then The Flood where nearly every single person died?>

“And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved.”
<Does the Fall of Jerusalem seem to be the type of event that If God did not cut it short,“no human being would survive”?>

Was Jesus referring to the upcoming fall of Jerusalem around 70 AD or to some still future event that has not yet happened?
Thank you;

Yes

 

[JurisPrudens]

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

" For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be"
<Would that be worse then The Flood where nearly every single person died?>

“And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved.”
<Does the Fall of Jerusalem seem to be the type of event that If God did not cut it short,“no human being would survive”?>

Was Jesus referring to the upcoming fall of Jerusalem around 70 AD or to some still future event that has not yet happened?
Thank you;

Both. In litteral terms, it referred to the Fall of Jerusalem. For the Jews it was something similar to the end of the world. The description of the darkened sun and coming of the Son of Man was either: a) an exageration typical for the OT literature, b) or referred to St. John’s Pathmos revelation.

Indirectly, this fragment also describes the Second Coming and is addresses to allof us. We are to read the signs and get prepared to the repetition of this event on a global scale.

 

[alwayswill]

Both. In litteral terms, it referred to the Fall of Jerusalem. For the Jews it was something similar to the end of the world. The description of the darkened sun and coming of the Son of Man was either: a) an exageration typical for the OT literature, b) or referred to St. John’s Pathmos revelation.

Indirectly, this fragment also describes the Second Coming and is addresses to allof us. We are to read the signs and get prepared to the repetition of this event on a global scale.

I think I understanding what you are saying : “The Temple is so important that…”

so: is your view that
“great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be”
and
that If God did not cut it short,“no human being would survive”
Is hyperbole or figurative language?

 

[JurisPrudens]

I think I understanding what you are saying : “The Temple is so important that…”

so: is your view that
“great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be”
and
that If God did not cut it short,“no human being would survive”
Is hyperbole or figurative language?

As to the first, I think, this is an exaggeration.

As to the second: if God had not cut it short, no Christian would have survived, and thus, there would have been no point in the existence of humanity. I think, it can be understood quite literally.

 

[jcrichton]

Matthew 24:20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

" For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be"
<Would that be worse then The Flood where nearly every single person died?>

“And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved.”
<Does the Fall of Jerusalem seem to be the type of event that If God did not cut it short,“no human being would survive”?>

Was Jesus referring to the upcoming fall of Jerusalem around 70 AD or to some still future event that has not yet happened?
Thank you;

Hi,

…consider the content:

the fall of a people
the rejection of God
the Crucifixion of God
the Death of God at the hand of His First Born (Jacob aka Israel).

In Israel’s past they had rejected God’s Authority but eventually came back to Him.

Once the rejection of the Messiah was made complete (crucifixion) those who were called His people would no longer be (due to their determination to reject God). But in deference to the Elect (Israel’s Remnant and those of the other fold which would be invited into the Kingdom) all of the terrible consequences of the rejection of God would not befall upon the earth in a single swoop… thus, Israel, as the world, suffers and endures the various holocausts that proceeded the rejection of Life!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[guanophore]

Yes

I thought you couldn’t answer a “or” question like this?

Do you mean “both”? That He was speaking both of the Temple and of something greater?

 

[mikekle]

**Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. **

I never understood this part of it, I believe this is referring to the times before the second coming, as I cannot think of any such time in the OT that is this bad, where God had to cut the days short for the sake of the people.

Why would us praying make any difference whether this happened in winter or not? Plus, when the US is in winter, the other side of the world is in summer, so Im not sure how the seasons would make a difference.

And why would it matter if it happened in winter, if its the second coming, no one will be around after Jesus comes anyway…right? We will all be changed when this happens, it sounds like he is saying this time period is going to be like a post apocalyptic world, where people are living in small groups, no electric, no utilities, etc.

 

[Robbinson]

Both. In litteral terms, it referred to the Fall of Jerusalem. For the Jews it was something similar to the end of the world. The description of the darkened sun and coming of the Son of Man was either: a) an exageration typical for the OT literature, b) or referred to St. John’s Pathmos revelation.

Indirectly, this fragment also describes the Second Coming and is addresses to allof us. We are to read the signs and get prepared to the repetition of this event on a global scale.

I also interpret these verses this way - I believe Scott Hahn took a similar view (both a preterest and futurist) view in his commentary on Revelation that also addresses these verses.

That said - in any event, we know Jerusalem fell as predicted by Jesus and that was the “end of the world” in a senses for scriptural judaism and we know Jesus will “come again” to judge the living and the dead following a period of great tribulation.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[alwayswill]

I also interpret these verses this way - I believe Scott Hahn took a similar view (both a preterest and futurist) view in his commentary on Revelation that also addresses these verses.

That said - in any event, we know Jerusalem fell as predicted by Jesus and that was the “end of the world” in a senses for scriptural judaism and we know Jesus will “come again” to judge the living and the dead following a period of great tribulation.

Blessings,

Brian

Just to clarify: when you say
“we know Jesus will “come again” to judge the living and the dead following a period of great tribulation.”
are you referring to a great tribulation that has not yet happened? (IOW a still future event?)

 

[jcrichton]

**Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. **

I never understood this part of it, I believe this is referring to the times before the second coming, as I cannot think of any such time in the OT that is this bad, where God had to cut the days short for the sake of the people.

Why would us praying make any difference whether this happened in winter or not? Plus, when the US is in winter, the other side of the world is in summer, so Im not sure how the seasons would make a difference.

And why would it matter if it happened in winter, if its the second coming, no one will be around after Jesus comes anyway…right? We will all be changed when this happens, it sounds like he is saying this time period is going to be like a post apocalyptic world, where people are living in small groups, no electric, no utilities, etc.

Hi, Mike!

It is God’s Design… He wants us to intercede for one another (just check the various passages in the Old Testament); I can only attribute that to one of the Mysteries of God:

And he said to them, “The harvest is great and the workers are few; pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send workers to his harvest.” (St. Luke 10:2)

This is the intercession of the Saints!

When we ask for God’s Mercy, on behalf of others, we can move mountains!

…as for the importance of the period (displacement time), though I have not experienced any catastrophe myself, I know that winter can be harsh just by itself… coupled with war, famine, drought, plague, predation… life can become quite a hellish nightmare, don’t you think?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Robbinson]

Just to clarify: when you say
“we know Jesus will “come again” to judge the living and the dead following a period of great tribulation.”
are you referring to a great tribulation that has not yet happened? (IOW a still future event?)

Yes - I believe the destruction of the temple and fall of Jerusalem was a partial fulfillment of this sign/prophecy that will have a greater fulfillment in a great tribulation preceding Christ’s return. Just as the “Virgin birth” was a subsequent greater fullfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy that had a more immediate fulfillment in his day.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[alwayswill]

Yes - I believe the destruction of the temple and fall of Jerusalem was a partial fulfillment of this sign/prophecy that will have a greater fulfillment in a great tribulation preceding Christ’s return. Just as the “Virgin birth” was a subsequent greater fullfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy that had a more immediate fulfillment in his day.

Blessings,

Brian

I agree with that view:
I guess others do not:

Catholic theology has no “Tribulation”. That is a 20th century invention of C.I. Schofield and dispensationalism.

 

[anon67074017]

Will the fall of Jerusalem be a nuclear strike on Jerusalem?

 

[jcrichton]

Yes - I believe the destruction of the temple and fall of Jerusalem was a partial fulfillment of this sign/prophecy that will have a greater fulfillment in a great tribulation preceding Christ’s return. Just as the “Virgin birth” was a subsequent greater fullfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy that had a more immediate fulfillment in his day.

Blessings,

Brian

Hi,
The virgin birth was a singular occasion–there was no fulfillment of this part of the prophecy during Isaiah’s time–though the name “Jesus” does appear several times in the Old Testament Writings.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Robbinson]

Hi,
The virgin birth was a singular occasion–there was no fulfillment of this part of the prophecy during Isaiah’s time–though the name “Jesus” does appear several times in the Old Testament Writings.

Maran atha!

Angel

Thanks Angel - the actual translation “alma” in the Hebrew can mean Virgin or young maiden - the most immediate promise of that text was a sign to Ahaz - obviously, the birth of Jesus (which occurred centuries after Ahaz’s death was not a sign to Ahaz). However, while the sign was provided to Ahaz in that context, we know from the NT that this also pointed to a greater fulfillment in the miraculous birth of Jesus from the “Virgin” Mary. Blessings, Brian

 

[Robbinson]

I agree with that view:
I guess others do not:

Actually - the while the Catholic Church rejects the idea of an on earth millennial kingdom (1,000 years) with Christ on earth, it does not reject the teaching of a time of tribulation preceding Christ’s return.

The Catholic Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,

1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church
2. the “full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles” (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)
3. a final trial of the Church “in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth.” The supreme deception is that of the Antichrist.
4. Christ’s victory over this final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the Last Judgment.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[mikekle]

Hi, Mike!

It is God’s Design… He wants us to intercede for one another (just check the various passages in the Old Testament); I can only attribute that to one of the Mysteries of God:

This is the intercession of the Saints!

When we ask for God’s Mercy, on behalf of others, we can move mountains!

…as for the importance of the period (displacement time), though I have not experienced any catastrophe myself, I know that winter can be harsh just by itself… coupled with war, famine, drought, plague, predation… life can become quite a hellish nightmare, don’t you think?

Maran atha!

Angel

Yes I agree, winter is brutal and unforgiving, it gets so bad, it literally hurts to walk outside, but when it comes to the second coming, only God determines when this happens, so if it happens in the winter, that will be all on God, not us.

Not to mention, seasons are different around the globe, so Im not sure how one could pray it doesnt come in winter in the US, but then, it would be winter in another nation, unless God can change the seasons globally to all the be the same on that day…which I guess he could.

 

[jcrichton]

Thanks Angel - the actual translation “alma” in the Hebrew can mean Virgin or young maiden - the most immediate promise of that text was a sign to Ahaz - obviously, the birth of Jesus (which occurred centuries after Ahaz’s death was not a sign to Ahaz). However, while the sign was provided to Ahaz in that context, we know from the NT that this also pointed to a greater fulfillment in the miraculous birth of Jesus from the “Virgin” Mary. Blessings, Brian

Hi, Brian!

…you are correct; the Hebrew term means both young unmarried and virgin. I may have misread your post and thought that a clarification could help.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Yes I agree, winter is brutal and unforgiving, it gets so bad, it literally hurts to walk outside, but when it comes to the second coming, only God determines when this happens, so if it happens in the winter, that will be all on God, not us.

Not to mention, seasons are different around the globe, so Im not sure how one could pray it doesnt come in winter in the US, but then, it would be winter in another nation, unless God can change the seasons globally to all the be the same on that day…which I guess he could.

Hi, Mike!

…I don’t think that the warnings and prayers are for the actual Second Coming but rather for the tribulations that would be unleashed.

I concur with you that God can control the global conditions–also, I think that when Jesus (Apocalypse) references the Second Coming it will be a global occasion that will exists both in time and outside of time, as He states that:

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen. (Apocalypse 1:7)

Maran atha!

Angel