Matthew 15: 21-28

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ellzeena

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Yesterday’s gospel (Wednesday August 8) was this part of Matthew and I have always had a problem understanding it. Jesus meets the Canaanite woman who begs him to heal her daughter. He says He has come only to the “house of Israel” and then says that the children’s bread cannot be thrown to the dogs. Ultimately, her faith in Him persuades Him to do as she asks. This refusal, and His allusion to her as a “dog”, bothers me a great deal. I can honestly say that this is most likely the single most troubling statement attributed to Jesus, for me personally. I’m certain there’s a good explanation for it. So I have posted it here, where I always receive on-target, wonderful answers. Thank you for helping me with this.
 
Our Lord stated that he came to save the lost House of Israel–to give them first refusal, if you will. The Israelites at this time considered those who were non-Israelites or partly so to be lesser creatures than themselves, referring to them as “dogs”. Jesus used this expression to see if the woman truly acknowledged him as “Lord” and “Son of David” or if she was only using these expression to get what she wanted, testing her faith and her heart. Seeing that she was sincere he answered her prayer. It was also a lesson for his disciples for after his resurrection he commissioned them to go into the whole world to preach the Gospel, whereas before that he had told them to avoid going to any but the House of Israel. He was preparing them, as he did with the Samaritan woman, to see those outside of Israel as worthy of redemption and salvation and a part of his larger mission.
 
Yesterday’s gospel (Wednesday August 8) was this part of Matthew and I have always had a problem understanding it. Jesus meets the Canaanite woman who begs him to heal her daughter. He says He has come only to the “house of Israel” and then says that the children’s bread cannot be thrown to the dogs. Ultimately, her faith in Him persuades Him to do as she asks. This refusal, and His allusion to her as a “dog”, bothers me a great deal. I can honestly say that this is most likely the single most troubling statement attributed to Jesus, for me personally. I’m certain there’s a good explanation for it. So I have posted it here, where I always receive on-target, wonderful answers. Thank you for helping me with this.
Jesus was leading the woman on to draw out her faith. First he ignored her, then feigned having mercy because she was a Cananite. Finally, he even compared her to a dog!

He knew the faith she had in her heart, and was helping her to proclaim it boldly.

He did this not just for her sake, but to teach his disciples that everyone, even a pagan could have belief, and that everyone was therefore worthy of healing.

Peace and all good!
 
Yesterday’s gospel (Wednesday August 8) was this part of Matthew and I have always had a problem understanding it. Jesus meets the Canaanite woman who begs him to heal her daughter. He says He has come only to the “house of Israel” and then says that the children’s bread cannot be thrown to the dogs. Ultimately, her faith in Him persuades Him to do as she asks. This refusal, and His allusion to her as a “dog”, bothers me a great deal. I can honestly say that this is most likely the single most troubling statement attributed to Jesus, for me personally. I’m certain there’s a good explanation for it. So I have posted it here, where I always receive on-target, wonderful answers. Thank you for helping me with this.
It might help to compare it with this and this.
 
Christ said that it is not right to toss children’s bread to the dogs (note plural noun). He was speaking in metaphors. By dogs he meant the Gentiles in general, whom the Jews considered unclean. In v. 24 he speaks of the lost sheep of Israel, which he means the spiritually lost Jews, also compared to children.

There was no offense intended toward the woman, and the woman, by her quick response, seemed to understand Christ’s mode of speech.
 
Thank you all SO very much. It is with much relief that I finally understand this passage.
 
Yesterday’s gospel (Wednesday August 8) was this part of Matthew and I have always had a problem understanding it. Jesus meets the Canaanite woman who begs him to heal her daughter. He says He has come only to the “house of Israel” and then says that the children’s bread cannot be thrown to the dogs. Ultimately, her faith in Him persuades Him to do as she asks. This refusal, and His allusion to her as a “dog”, bothers me a great deal. I can honestly say that this is most likely the single most troubling statement attributed to Jesus, for me personally. I’m certain there’s a good explanation for it. So I have posted it here, where I always receive on-target, wonderful answers. Thank you for helping me with this.
I think the clue to understand it is in the historical context of the Bible. In that context we know among other that there flourished with sins and worshiping of false gods among the Canaanites. God warned the children of Abraham to mix with these people, so they should not learn to worship false gods. Abraham’s servant was asked to find a wife for Isac inside Abraham’s own people and not among the Canaanites (Genesis 24:3 - 4). The same pattern repeats when Rebecca asked Jacob to find a wife among his own kind ( Genesis 28:1- 2).

As you know, in the Catholic Church we see marriage as a union between man, wife and God. The marriage is a sign of relationship with God. The way I see it, the warning of marrying Canaanites had it’s function in that time, but it also serves as a reminder to us in our daily life to remember that the more we are around people who don’t believe, the more easy it becomes to worship the not Christian gods of our time (money, power, etc).

When Jesus met the Canaanite woman in Matthews Gospel, I also think it had and has a double meaning:
  1. To teach the disciples that He wasn’t only for Jews (to demonstrate that he had to talk to her in the way Jews usually talked to or about Canaanites (as people one don’t mix with). Remember Jesus was not only human. He was also God. As God he already knew that she would approach Him again, so He could show both her and the disciples about His mercy.
  2. To show us who reads about it later (now that Christ is risen and the Catholic Church instituted), to never give in. The Canaanite woman refused to give in, while not listened too. She was heard. So it is with us also. If we are persistent in prayer we will be heard (in the time God wants to hear us, when he know it is the best timing for us).
Hope this reflected some light upon the writings that was difficult for you to cope with, ellzeena! 🙂
 
I think the clue to understand it is in the historical context of the Bible. In that context we know among other that there flourished with sins and worshiping of false gods among the Canaanites. God warned the children of Abraham to mix with these people, so they should not learn to worship false gods. Abraham’s servant was asked to find a wife for Isac inside Abraham’s own people and not among the Canaanites (Genesis 24:3 - 4). The same pattern repeats when Rebecca asked Jacob to find a wife among his own kind ( Genesis 28:1- 2).

As you know, in the Catholic Church we see marriage as a union between man, wife and God. The marriage is a sign of relationship with God. The way I see it, the warning of marrying Canaanites had it’s function in that time, but it also serves as a reminder to us in our daily life to remember that the more we are around people who don’t believe, the more easy it becomes to worship the not Christian gods of our time (money, power, etc).

When Jesus met the Canaanite woman in Matthews Gospel, I also think it had and has a double meaning:
  1. To teach the disciples that He wasn’t only for Jews (to demonstrate that he had to talk to her in the way Jews usually talked to or about Canaanites (as people one don’t mix with). Remember Jesus was not only human. He was also God. As God he already knew that she would approach Him again, so He could show both her and the disciples about His mercy.
  2. To show us who reads about it later (now that Christ is risen and the Catholic Church instituted), to never give in. The Canaanite woman refused to give in, while not listened too. She was heard. So it is with us also. If we are persistent in prayer we will be heard (in the time God wants to hear us, when he know it is the best timing for us).
Hope this reflected some light upon the writings that was difficult for you to cope with, ellzeena! 🙂
Wonderful teaching and yes, it makes sense. I now fully understand why He did what He did, and why He did it in the way He did it. We know that Satan uses the intellect and emotions to evoke doubt and fear. I always rebuke him and when I get into trouble with anything Catholic I come here because you are all so knowledgeable and so very generous with your knowledge. Thank you so much and God bless you.
 
Thanks to all who posted. I chose this passage for Lectio Divina a couple of days ago, and was having difficulty putting it all together.
 
Yesterday’s gospel (Wednesday August 8) was this part of Matthew and I have always had a problem understanding it. Jesus meets the Canaanite woman who begs him to heal her daughter. He says He has come only to the “house of Israel” and then says that the children’s bread cannot be thrown to the dogs. Ultimately, her faith in Him persuades Him to do as she asks. This refusal, and His allusion to her as a “dog”, bothers me a great deal. I can honestly say that this is most likely the single most troubling statement attributed to Jesus, for me personally. I’m certain there’s a good explanation for it. So I have posted it here, where I always receive on-target, wonderful answers. Thank you for helping me with this.
Yes, you have been given very good explanations of this gospel reading.

I do have off the record info. regarding s…i not the things you mentioned, but other things well, yes…

God’s peace be with you

micah
 
Forgot to mention that this woman is identified as ‘Justa’ a proselyte of the Jewish nation. That her husband left her, and she was providing for her daughter when our Lord Jesus Christ enters into the story.

The story really becomes romanticized when she becomes the foster mother of twin brothers Aquila and Niceta. They came under the influence of Simon Magus in their youth, and then are rescued by Zacchaeus the converted publican from the deception of Simon Magus.

The Clementine Homilies, Homily II, Chapters xix-xxi.

Later, Aquila and Niceta are traveling with the apostle Peter where they eventually meet up with their younger brother Clement who was separated from them. Eventually, their mother who survived a shipwreck (who thought she had lost her twin sons) is reunited with her twin sons otherwise known as Faustinus and Fautinianus before they were given the names Aquila and Niceta by their foster mother Justa. The story even becomes more improbable as Clement who is also becoming a disciple of Peter, becomes aware that these twin brothers are his brothers whom he had not seen since her mother left him and her father for the sake of moral integrity. Then later, the father becomes reunited with all three of his sons and his wife to give us the grandest miracle of all miracles story.

This is actually a story within a story. It is one of the early Jewish Christian writings that we have. It incorporates the ‘supposed’ teachings of the apostle Peter as he travels with his disciples and eventually meets up with Simon Magus in a battle over the truth of the Tanakh and the gospel against the heresies of Simon Magus.

God’s peace

micah
 
platytera.blogspot.com/2012/01/snips-snails-kunarion-tails.html

“The Greek word for dog is *kuon *[on the board] (κυων). Almost every time an English Bible says dog, the Greeks say kuon. But when Jesus says “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs,” the Greek word is kunarion [on the board] (κυναριον).”
All right,so what is the difference in meaning (the nuance) between kuon and kunarion?
 
Forgot to mention that this woman is identified as ‘Justa’ a proselyte of the Jewish nation. That her husband left her, and she was providing for her daughter when our Lord Jesus Christ enters into the story.

The story really becomes romanticized when she becomes the foster mother of twin brothers Aquila and Niceta. They came under the influence of Simon Magus in their youth, and then are rescued by Zacchaeus the converted publican from the deception of Simon Magus.

The Clementine Homilies, Homily II, Chapters xix-xxi.

Later, Aquila and Niceta are traveling with the apostle Peter where they eventually meet up with their younger brother Clement who was separated from them. Eventually, their mother who survived a shipwreck (who thought she had lost her twin sons) is reunited with her twin sons otherwise known as Faustinus and Fautinianus before they were given the names Aquila and Niceta by their foster mother Justa. The story even becomes more improbable as Clement who is also becoming a disciple of Peter, becomes aware that these twin brothers are his brothers whom he had not seen since her mother left him and her father for the sake of moral integrity. Then later, the father becomes reunited with all three of his sons and his wife to give us the grandest miracle of all miracles story.

This is actually a story within a story. It is one of the early Jewish Christian writings that we have. It incorporates the ‘supposed’ teachings of the apostle Peter as he travels with his disciples and eventually meets up with Simon Magus in a battle over the truth of the Tanakh and the gospel against the heresies of Simon Magus.

God’s peace

micah
When you say “even more improbable” do you refer to the (seemingly obvious) mythologizing of this woman, or to her interaction with Jesus? And what of these “supposed teachings” of Peter? Is this some gnostic gospel you refer to, or do you think Peter did no actual teaching? In which case…well, the NT wouldn’t be worth much, would it (and of course I know that not to be true).
 
When you say “even more improbable” do you refer to the (seemingly obvious) mythologizing of this woman, or to her interaction with Jesus? And what of these “supposed teachings” of Peter? Is this some gnostic gospel you refer to, or do you think Peter did no actual teaching? In which case…well, the NT wouldn’t be worth much, would it (and of course I know that not to be true).
I do not know if there is so much a mythologizing of "Justa’ as there may have been an attempt to take some of the Gospel narrative people and give them a further development within their own personal lives. Was ‘Justa’ the name of the woman in the Gospel? Was she a proselyte of the Jewish nation, and did her husband leave her because of her faith?
Who can know?

We do know that Zaccheus later became bishop of Ceasarea on the west coast of then Palestine (Israel). This was the region in which the apostle Peter was teaching and preaching within the context of the Clementine homilies. We do know that Peter ordained Clement as the second bishop of Rome (or third bishop). The story of Clement, his twin brothers (if he had twin brothers), his mother and father all being reunited would be a marvelous story if it was true.

As far as the teachings of the apostle Peter within the Clementine Homilies, there are indicators that this was written before Origen (231 AD) because Origen quotes from another version of the Clementine Homilies called “Recognitions”. It appears that certain “conversations” were deliberately left out of Recognitions that were kept in the Clementine Homilies, namely the discussion of the Unbegotten God, and the only-begotten Son.

What I find interesting is that the apostle Peter supposedly quotes a verse from the Torah that is quoted in the gospels, but not according to the version in the gospels.

Peter quoting, Deuteronomy 4:"Thou shalt fear the Lord, thy God, and him only shalt thou serve"

The gospel version, "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve"

There are other distinctives in the teachings of apostle Peter which seem to have a definite Jewish Christian element.

There is a scene where the apostle Peter ordains an individual to be bishop of a particular city or region. At the same time he ordains 12 presbyters, and some deacons. The fact that he ordains 12 presbyters confirms the early structure of the church as related by Bishop Ignatius in his epistles and also by the Apostolic Constitutions. That is, the bishop represents in liturgical structure the High Priest of the Levites, while the presbyters (apostles) represent the Sandhedrin who are the scriptural authorities to the Bishop.

I wanted to say something about an individual of whom you read some disturbing things.
Having spoken to this person by phone and written several times by e-mail she never mentioned the things you mentioned. She was willing to speak with me at the time because of my association with a certain organization at the time. This was 10 years ago.

She is either a paranoid schizophrenic with a brilliant mind, or someone who is a plant to be as a magnet to flush out people who are dangerously suspicious of governments. I also spoke with her pastor, which she gave me permission to speak with. There is a slight possibility that she is for real in her explanation of ‘alters’. She is no longer someone who can be contacted.Regardless, may God watch over her soul, it is so important to fix our eyes on our Lord Jesus Christ and not to delve into the dark secrets of Satan as mentioned in the book of Revelations.

God’s peace be with you

micah
 
All right,so what is the difference in meaning (the nuance) between kuon and kunarion?
The latter is the diminutive: a little dog or a puppy. In context, it is quite possibly referring to taking food from the children and giving it to their own toy dogs, as opposed to giving it to the full-sized working dogs; it might be referring to a punishment for ill-behaved children, throwing their food to their pets. It does still potentially dehumanise the woman, however, and I suspect that that is part of the point: Jesus is testing her.
 
Without discounting anything which has been written on this gospel passage, it probably would help if we knew what Jesus meant when he said in Matthew 7:6:Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.

The early church father Barnabas explains that swine represent people who live for pleasure. As long as swine are fed they forget God, when they are hungry they look to their Master. ‘Swine’ are not interested in pearls of wisdom, they are interested in the pleasures of the here and now. They would only get offended if the disciples attempted to give such people pearls of wisdom, and probably would turn against the disciples.

Dogs may represent something similar. They do not distinguish what they eat, nor from what source it is from.

The prophet Ezekiel proclaims that the people did not separate the holy from the profane, the clean from the unclean. This seems like what a ‘dog’ might represent in Matthew 7:6.

Thus, ‘dogs’ are not worthy to receive the holy bread that Jesus was giving to the children of Israel. But, the woman replies, even a dog will receive the scraps from the Master’s table. She could be referring to the fact, that as unholy as dogs may be, they still eat something from the Master’s table that is holy.

Dogs may also refer to those who have been sacrificing and eating the animal flesh that has been offered to idols. In the Clementine Homilies, ‘the apostle Peter’ explains what happens to the souls of those who eat the flesh of animals that are in effect, offered to demons.

Idolatry can come in many forms, even today. Anything that we put before the one true God, who alone is to be served, becomes an idol, and our souls will suffer the consequences. So we must remain faithful to God through the one who is the author and finisher of faith, our Lord Jesus Christ.

God’s peace

micah
 
The Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible says: “But she said: Yea, Lord; for the whelps also eat of the crumbs that fall from the table of their masters.”

The Vulgate says “catelli,” that is, puppies.
 
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