Matthew 16: 1-3

[Voco_proTatiano]

et accesserunt ad eum
Pharisaei
et Sadducaei
temptantes
et rogaverunt eum
ut signum de caelo ostenderet eis

And there came to him
the Pharisees
and Sadducees
tempting:
and they asked him
to shew them a sign from heaven.

at ille respondens
ait eis
facto vespere
dicitis
serenum erit
rubicundum est enim caelum

But he answered
and said to them:
When it is evening,
you say,
It will be fair weather,
for the sky is red.

et mane
hodie tempestas
rutilat enim triste caelum

And in the morning:
To day there will be a storm,
for the sky is red and lowering.

This is clearly related to the British weather predicting proverb:
Red sky at night, shepherds’ delight;
red in the morning, shepherds’ warning.

It can be shown quite easily that this proverb is dependent upon a weather system reliant upon an oceanic circulation such as is found in the Atlantic Ocean, and predominantly Westerly winds.
Further, it is easy to show that only the Atlantic Ocean has a eastward flowing warm current, which draws close to land.Thus the proverb can only have any degree of reliability in North West Europe, particularly in Northern Britain.

It is remarkably easy to show that such a weather system is entirely foreign to the Holy Lands, where Westerly winds are uncommon for most of the time.
Thus in the Holy Lands, this proverb is utterly unreliable, whereas in Northern Britain, it makes a very good bet, 90% reliability found in most of Britain.

Now we know that the best extant Latin Vulgate text is the Codex Amiatinus, and it was produced in Northern Britain. It is entirely possible that a scribal note got incorporated into the text some time in this region.

Thus we can date any text according to the presence of these verses as pre, or post AD 710.

 

[wardrandolph]

May I subjest a web site that gives some historical facts on the Codex Amiatinus?The web add. is www.newadvent.org.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

May I subjest a web site that gives some historical facts on the Codex Amiatinus?The web add. is www.newadvent.org.

Allow me to give the complete link:
newadvent.org/cathen/04081a.htm

 

[grandfather]

But he answered
and said to them:
When it is evening,
you say,
It will be fair weather,
for the sky is red.

And in the morning:
To day there will be a storm,
for the sky is red and lowering.

This is clearly related to the British weather predicting proverb:
Red sky at night, shepherds’ delight;
red in the morning, shepherds’ warning.

It can be shown quite easily that this proverb is dependent upon a weather system reliant upon an oceanic circulation such as is found in the Atlantic Ocean, and predominantly Westerly winds.10.

I live in the Pacific Northwest and have been in the ocean waters of the Pacfic. I also have lived and travelled along the eastern seaboard of the U.S. The weather proverb holds true both sides of the continent. Weather, all over the globe moves from west to east. It has to do with the rotation of the earth not prevailing surface winds.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

I live in the Pacific Northwest and have been in the ocean waters of the Pacfic. I also have lived and travelled along the eastern seaboard of the U.S. The weather proverb holds true both sides of the continent. Weather, all over the globe moves from west to east. It has to do with the rotation of the earth not prevailing surface winds.

What you say is true for the general weather trend, but this proverb predicts immediate weather, which is highly dependant upon wind direction.
The accuracy allocated to this proverb in the US is about 60%, on the Holy Lands, the wind is predominantly Easterly, rather than Westerly, which is why the area is predominantly arid.
In Northumbria, where the Codex Amiatinus was copied from some lost master, the accuracy is about 95%.
Whereas a 60% bet is hardly a reliability example, 95% serves excellently.

 

[grandfather]

What you say is true for the general weather trend, but this proverb predicts immediate weather, which is highly dependant upon wind direction.
The accuracy allocated to this proverb in the US is about 60%, on the Holy Lands, the wind is predominantly Easterly, rather than Westerly, which is why the area is predominantly arid.
In Northumbria, where the Codex Amiatinus was copied from some lost master, the accuracy is about 95%.
Whereas a 60% bet is hardly a reliability example, 95% serves excellently.

Can you give some reference to your 60%/90% accuracy claims? Are you a climatologist? I worked summers right on the shoreline of the east coast of the United States for six years and lived there for 24 years. The prevailing wind on normal days is off the water, east to west and it is a light wind. Storms with heavy winds came at times from the northeast and up from the south. The proverb was completely reliable to predict next day’s weather regardless of surface wind direction. I now have a fishing boat moored on the west coast of the U.S. and have lived here over 20years. The prevailing winds along the coast change from summer to winter. In the winter the prevailing wind is from the south west. On a day to day basis the prevailing winter wind is less than summer, but there are occassional storms with very heavy winds in winter. In fact we had a storm the past two days and winds gusts peaked at over 120 mph in places. Here in the summer the prevailing wind is from the north west, but stronger on a daily basis, building from nothing in the morning until late afternoon averages of about 20-25 mph. You can imagine how important weather forecasts are for boaters on the Pacific. I can tell you that the red sky proverb is completely reliable here as well, winter or summer, regardless of surface wind direction. I also lived in the mountains for seven years. The proverb was reliable there. I have spent time in the great plains far from any body of water. The proverb works there also regardless of wind direction. I have spent time on smaller islands in the Bahamas and Hawaii. Same story for sunsets and sunrises. The weather proverb works universally and people in every place I have been rely on it for the next day’s weather.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

Can you give some reference to your 60%/90% accuracy claims? Are you a climatologist? I worked summers right on the shoreline of the east coast of the United States for six years and lived there for 24 years. The prevailing wind on normal days is off the water, east to west and it is a light wind. . . .snip - sorry, out of space . . The proverb works there also regardless of wind direction. I have spent time on smaller islands in the Bahamas and Hawaii. Same story for sunsets and sunrises. The weather proverb works universally and people in every place I have been rely on it for the next day’s weather.

As with all prophesies, there is a strong tendency to remember when they work, and not when they do not.
Therefore, my study of the prophesy is based upon the meands of its operation.
The red sky does not just refer to the sunset, but the illumination of the whole sky, from West to East with blood red light.
Thus, you have sunset light, illuminating high clouds in the East.
These high clouds are the remnants of the cirrus which blows out of the anvil top of the Cu Nim thunder clouds, which mark a cold front passing.
Thus the depression, comprising warm front, and cold front has passed, and there is at least 1000 miles of clear air before the next warm front.
Now, the Arctic front, (and the Antarctic front), occupy a zone between lattitudes 45 degrees and 65 degrees, and it is inside this zone that the Westerlies blow.
At lattitudes below 45 degrees, you have the doldrums, before you get to the Trade Winds, which are Noreasterly.
The 1000 miles of clear air in the Westerly zone will take about 24 hours to pass, so the day following the red sky will be predominantly clear.
Yes, in the westerlies zone on the Western Sea board of the US, there is a similar situation, but the Pacific lacks the warm current which seeds the storms, pretty much like the Carribean seeds storms blown into the Southern States by the Trade Winds.
Because the Pacific lacks this warm current, the sea breezes are much dryer than those off the Atlantic in Britain, thus, you get on the whole, a much dryer climate, so it is like blowing a whisle in Trafalgar square to keep elephants away.
Statistically, a good day will follow any kind of sunset, whether it lights the whole sky, or not.
The converse case of course is that for a red sky in the morning, the red sunrise is illuminating the high cirrus cloud of the Cu Nim, that is blowing in off the sea, so rough weather is to be expected, and very soon.
Obviuosly, these weather conditions do not hold good in the Holy Land, which, being obout 30 degrees north, is on the edge between the doldrums and the Trades.
The only effect that can occur in the Holy Lands is the Land breeze and Sea breaze situation.
After sunset, the land cools quickly, but the sea, slowly, so that warm air over the sea rises, and draws cold air of the land, setting up a land breeze. As the sun gains heat during the day, the land warms rapidly, and the hot air rises, drawing cooler air from the sea. That cooler air will draw in any clouds that have formed above the warmer sea at night, and yes this will bring rain, but it is soft rain, not the violent thunderstorms that breed over the warm Gulf Stream Drift.

As an aside, you need to be aware that in the years between AD 400, and AD 600, the Roman Empire in Italy was reduced to a ruin, which only began to recover in the latter half of the 6th century.
The only copies of St Jerome’s work that survived, were in Constantinople, and Britain. The rest of Europe was over-run by heathen barbarians. The myth of the continuity of Rome is just that.
Alerik sacked Rome, and Rome never recovered.
The Roman empire degenerated into a confederation of War-Lord states. These states eventualy became Italy. Rome as an empire ceased to exist.
Under Charlemain, the seat of St Peter was in Avignon in France!
Recovery of Rome as the Vatican was very late in history.

The introductary tale in my Ebook, was never intended as a history, only as an illustrative of the times, but as it grew, it became surprisingly accurate.

 

[grandfather]

The red sky does not just refer to the sunset, but the illumination of the whole sky, from West to East with blood red light.

So are you saying that this English proverb is useful in England when the entire sky is turned red at sunset?<<<<<<<<<<

The only copies of St Jerome’s work that survived, were in Constantinople, and Britain.

Saint Jerome gave us the Vulgate, a translation from Greek into Latin, the common or vulgar tongue. What does the original Greek say?<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I take it you have never heard of global warming?

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

So are you saying that this English proverb is useful in England when the entire sky is turned red at sunset?<<<<<<<<<<

The only copies of St Jerome’s work that survived, were in Constantinople, and Britain.

Saint Jerome gave us the Vulgate, a translation from Greek into Latin, the common or vulgar tongue. What does the original Greek say?<<<<<<<<<<<<

These verses are missing in early Greek manuscripts that predate AD 710.
Also missing in Vetus Latina, from which St Jerome copied most of the Gospels.

 

[Voco_proTatiano]

I take it you have never heard of global warming?

Relevence?