Matthew 16:24-25

[FAH]

Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me. For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.'

I’m a bit confused as to what Our Lord means in this section of the Gospel for the 22nd Sunday in OT.

Jesus says “For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it.” Does this mean that people who are struggling and battling with cancer or other vicious diseases should not want to save their life?

Another question: We would consider bad health and other ailments small daily crosses that we have to bear so should be be trying reduce the effects of our ailments with medication because that seems like were shaving a bit of wood of our crosses or sawing them down to a manageable size. Our Lord didn’t say “pick up your cross, but if it’s a little heavy alter it until it fits comfortably on your shoulder”
So when we have heavy crosses to bear in terms of our health should we seek medication and healthcare to help up carry this cross, or should be be seeking the assistance of the saints, our Immaculate Mother and our Blessed Lord?

Any ideas?

 

[Nita]

Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself
(renounce one’s own thinking and passions when they are contrary to God’s - which He has revealed thru Scripture and His Church)

and take up his cross and follow me.
(Jesus followed His Father’s will, not the physical and emotional repulsion His human nature (body & soul) desired when the time had come for Him to be crucified. cf. Mt. 26:39)

For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it;
(those who want to follow and fulfill only their own desires/concupiscences, will spend eternity in hell. There they will not experience any fulfillment of their desires ever.

but anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.’
(those who reject their own desires, but instead make God’s will their own, will spend all eternity in heaven where their desires - same as God’s - will be fulfilled eternally.

Jesus says “For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it.” Does this mean that people who are struggling and battling with cancer or other vicious diseases should not want to save their life?

Another question: We would consider bad health and other ailments small daily crosses that we have to bear so should be be trying reduce the effects of our ailments with medication because that seems like were shaving a bit of wood of our crosses or sawing them down to a manageable size. Our Lord didn’t say “pick up your cross, but if it’s a little heavy alter it until it fits comfortably on your shoulder”
So when we have heavy crosses to bear in terms of our health should we seek medication and healthcare to help up carry this cross, or should be be seeking the assistance of the saints, our Immaculate Mother and our Blessed Lord?

Any ideas?

It does not mean that we should not seek the appropriate kind of help for the problem/cross that enters our life. (Note that Jesus prayed to have His “cup” pass if it was the possible.) We seek to do what is “possible” - as long as it is in conformity with God’s will as revealed thru His teaching (Scripture and Church teaching).
If all efforts (including prayer) to heal the situation are ineffective, then we are to accept the suffering as God’s will for us, as Jesus did. Also, like Him, we can offer it up for the salvation of souls.

 

[Nita]

A good Catholic Commentary that can be accessed on line:
haydock1859.tripod.com/

 

[FaithJoy]

Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me. For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.’

The point Jesus is making here is that all of us want want want for ourselves. In other words He wants us to live selflessness. Jesus wants you to live your life for Him,not for yourself. It shows the greatest source of love,to show love for another,mainly for God. Also another way to look at it is to live your life for God, not for your own selfish desires. Your earthly desires aren’t the same as God’s desire/love.

 

[JRKH]

Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me. For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.'

I’m a bit confused as to what Our Lord means in this section of the Gospel for the 22nd Sunday in OT.

Jesus says “For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it.” Does this mean that people who are struggling and battling with cancer or other vicious diseases should not want to save their life?

Always look at these things in the light of the two great commandments. (Mt 22:36-40)
Love God above all and Love others as yourself.
Also always consider these things with the mindset of eternal life. This can be something quite difficult to do.
Our first desire should be that God’s will be done, not ours and that in whatever circumstances, God’s name be glorified. This does not change when one is seriously ill. That said, God does not wish us to despair of this life. Our Love of our self should cause us to desire to live…If that be God’s Will.

Another question: We would consider bad health and other ailments small daily crosses that we have to bear so should be be trying reduce the effects of our ailments with medication because that seems like were shaving a bit of wood of our crosses or sawing them down to a manageable size. Our Lord didn’t say “pick up your cross, but if it’s a little heavy alter it until it fits comfortably on your shoulder”
So when we have heavy crosses to bear in terms of our health should we seek medication and healthcare to help up carry this cross, or should be be seeking the assistance of the saints, our Immaculate Mother and our Blessed Lord?

Seeking medical aid is part of Loving our self. We should seek this aid, just as we would encourage someone that we “love as our self” to seek medical aid. Medication to alleviate pain etc is available through the loving desire of others to help us. Our taking such medication is also a loving thing since it gives others rest to know that we are not suffering unnecessarily.

I’m not sure if I am explaining this terribly well but I hope you see what I am driving at.

Peace
James

 

[GEddie]

The issue is not about saving our life from danger or illness, any more than it is about physical martyrdom per se. Preserving our naturalbodies from pain or death is something we are designed to do (it is why God gave us a bodily reflex system); nor is everybody called to be killed as a martyr.

it is about how we prioritize our life.

For each of us, living our life is, of course, the highest priority. We have a pattern that we seek to fill out for ourselves involving various wants both conscious and subconsciously held. We seek to stay alive so as to get in as many of those wants as possible.

But no matter how successfully we live our life, or how long we stay alive, the story will end with our eyes rolled back in death. The lights go out at the end of the show

Whereas, if we center our life on HIS eternal message, when our eyes roll back, we will see our LORD.

ICXC NIKA

 

[HOLY_POOH_FAN]

The deeper meaning of the Cross is that we do it Jesus’ way. He was obedient to the Father’s Will He decided to be the obedient Son, see the lovely summary of that in Phil 2:6-11 and that led Him to be faithful to all that was laid on Him which involved serious emotional stress, being lied to betrayed by the apostles and then the physical violence of His suffering and crucifixion. That carrying of the Cross for us takes diffeernt forms but mainly "nailing"our own Self to buck public opinion, ensuring unconditional love of neighbour, forgiving, not holding grudges and being active sacramentally and daily prayer.

 

[Jesus_123]

Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for *my sake, shall find it. - Matthew 16:24-25 ***​

+The above Douay Rhiems translation of this portion of **Sacred :bible1: Scripture **is much clearer and much more familiar to most of God’s children . . . it does speak about the difficulties our good Lord may entrust to our lives . . . but it also speaks to the decisions we make in life . . . and the need for the healthy humble formation of a . . . good conscience . . . in order to . . . stand firm . . . and choose the good and deny the evil in life . . . ***(this is the true daily following of Christ . . . denial of self . . . and taking up of the . . . Holy Cross of Christ *** . . . in this world ). . . till the day of our death.

Life is filled each day with an . . . infinite . . . number of choices . . . and our . . . **Wonderful God **. . . has given us the extraordinary holy gift of . . . **FREE WILL *. . . whereby all of mankind is able . . . by the grace of God * . . . to choose the **“good” **according **His Wonderful Will **. . .formation of a healthy good conscience is a constant ongoing process . . . dealing with appropriately caring for and controlling . . . **BODY, **SOUL and SPIRIT . . . in accordance with God’s Holy Will . . . beginning at birth with simple loving care and simple direction for the tiny babe . . . for all of mankind are born in sin and need care and guidance. . . it is a consistent holy exercise and discipline . . . which healthy good parents will . . . faithfully instill . . . in their children’s hearts and souls . . . in accordance with healthy sound common sense . . . God’s holy ways revealed in . . . Sacred :bible1: Scripture . . . and our Holy Mother Church’s counsel . . . and uphold for their children as they progress toward maturity wherein they will hopefully be making healthy holy choices all on their own . . . for their adult lives . . .

:bible1:
Train up a child
in the way he should go:

and when he is old,
he will not depart from it.*
Proverbs 22:6*

Also . . . our Gracious Heavenly Father . . . in the below portion of **Sacred :bible1: Scripture **. . . lovingly reveals His Holy Will for mankind . . . and encourages us to seek wholeness and good health and seek medical help from physicians for health and healing needs when it is necessary . . .

THE HOLY :bible1: BIBLE
Ecclesiasticus 38:1-10

[1] Honour the physician for the need thou hast of him: for the **Most High **hath created him. [2] For all **healing **is from God, and he shall receive gifts of the king. [3] The **skill of the physician **shall lift up his head, and in the sight of great men he shall be praised. [4] The Most High hath created medicines out of the earth, and a wise man will not abhor them. [5] Was not bitter water made sweet with wood?

[6] The virtue of these things is come to the knowledge of men, and the Most High hath given knowledge to men, that he may be honoured in his wonders. [7] By these he shall cure and shall allay their pains, and of these the apothecary shall make sweet confections, and shall make up ointments of health, and of his works there shall be no end. [8] For the** peace **of God is over all the face of the earth. [9] My son, in thy sickness neglect not thyself, but pray to the Lord, and **he shall heal thee. [10] Turn away from sin and order thy hands aright, and cleanse thy heart from all offence. [11] Give a sweet savour, and a memorial of fine flour, and make a fat offering, and then give place to the physician. [12] For the Lord **created him: and let him not depart from thee, for his works are necessary.
​

. . . all for Jesus+
*. . . thank You Beloved Jesus+
. . . our Great Holy Physician+
. . . thank You Gracious Heavenly Father+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+

• Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow! +*
  :harp:

 

[xxxBiAxxx]

Jesus was saying that whoever wanted to save their earthly life by denying Jesus would lose their eternal life with him in heaven. He was referring to the persecution of his followers, either during early Christian times or during the end times. Maybe both.

 

[PJM]

=FAH;8300091]Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'If anyone wants to be a follower of mine, let him renounce himself and take up his cross and follow me. For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it; but anyone who loses his life for my sake will find it.'

I’m a bit confused as to what Our Lord means in this section of the Gospel for the 22nd Sunday in OT.

Jesus says “For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it.” Does this mean that people who are struggling and battling with cancer or other vicious diseases should not want to save their life?

Another question: We would consider bad health and other ailments small daily crosses that we have to bear so should be be trying reduce the effects of our ailments with medication because that seems like were shaving a bit of wood of our crosses or sawing them down to a manageable size. Our Lord didn’t say “pick up your cross, but if it’s a little heavy alter it until it fits comfortably on your shoulder”
So when we have heavy crosses to bear in terms of our health should we seek medication and healthcare to help up carry this cross, or should be be seeking the assistance of the saints, our Immaculate Mother and our Blessed Lord?

Any ideas?

***Here is what is meant:

1. Only fools think that it is possible to participate in Christ Glory w/o first sharing in His Passion and Suffering. “Take up your Cross” appears in text FIVE seperate times…as does the Eucharist].

2.God offers all of humanity two [and ONLY TWO] options: Your in-charge or “I AM” in charge

1. As these other passages explain we OUGHT to 1. Expect to suffer 2. Accept suffering as gifts from God 3. Offer them up for GRACE for ourselves and others.***

**1Pet.4: 13 **” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed. **1Pet.5: 1, 9 ** “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”
**Phil.1: 29 **“For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “ **Heb. 2: 10 **For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering."

Nothing happens to us outside og God’s "Divine Providence" which means that all good things are FROM God; and “not-so-good” are not caused by God BUT are PERMITTED by God for His Glory and our POSSIBLE sanctification [if we accept and apply the graces].

All medical reasonal support is to be sought [as “good sturats of our bodies”], BUT if they do NOT remedy the conditions: accept it knowing it is God’s WILL for us. Seeking the assistance of Mother Mary and th Saints is ALWAYS a GREAT idea. BUT never forget that while God answers ALL prayer… “Not Now,”, “No” are options of God’s just as “yes” is.

God Bless you,
Pat

 

[TimothyH]

Keep in mind that Jesus was speaking to the pastors of his Church.

Matthew does not always distinguish the disciples from the Apsostles but we can infer from the surrounding verses that he is talking predominantly to his core group. Jesus had just told Peter that he would give him the keys to the kingdom and a few verses later takes Peter, James and John alone to the Mount of Transfiguration.

The passage has a definite message to the pastors of the new Church, who are “Other Christs”, priests in Jesus’ kingdom.

-Tim-

 

[puzzleannie]

Jesus says “For anyone who wants to save his life will lose it.” Does this mean that people who are struggling and battling with cancer or other vicious diseases should not want to save their life?

No not necessarily, like most such scripture it has several layers of meaning. For one thing it means giving up control over your life–and when you get a diagnosis like this it makes you realize how little control we really have. We protect against a million small threats, buy insurance, sanitize germs, eat healthy etc. but cannot protect against the enormous threats that are out there and beyond our control. Yes we should do what we can to stay healthy, and take any reasonable help offered by the medical profession, but we do not have to lie down and give up.

It also means, and someone this gravely ill may be reflecting on this already, that until we die and give up earthly life we cannot enjoy life in heaven in union with God.

?

 

[FAH]

Thanks for the answers