Matthew 18:18 why does Jesus repeat in John 20:23?

[Augustine3]

Isn’t Jesus saying the same thing in these two verses in a different way? If so, why does he repeat it?

 

[mgn2010]

Matthew’s verse is in reference to Peter receiving the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever shall be bound on earth will be bound in heaven, based on Peter’s inclination to proclaim such in church matters. This is not on his own authority, but by the authority Jesus grants to Peter from Him. He has been given authority to govern, proclaim and implement church functions or declare proclamations concerning church teaching. Recall, when Jesus asked the disciples, “Who do men say that I am?” It was Peter who responded with, “Thou are the Christ, the Son of the Living God,” to which Jesus answers, “Simon Bar-Jonah…this has not been revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my heavenly Father!”. This is a defining moment in which Peter is being singled out to be a chosen leader by Christ Himself (Perhaps, Jesus was waiting to see who the Father was going to choose for this leadership role when he asked them this question…Oh Peter…it’s you!)

John’s verse is in reference to Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit onto the whole of the Apostles giving them authority to forgive sins in His name.

What is Jesus repeating? One, giving Peter the authority to be the leader of the Church and then two giving the authority to all the Apostles the power to forgive sins. One is to a single person, Peter. The other is to all the Apostles, including Peter.

 

[Augustine3]

Matthew’s verse is in reference to Peter receiving the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever shall be bound on earth will be bound in heaven, based on Peter’s inclination to proclaim such in church matters. This is not on his own authority, but by the authority Jesus grants to Peter from Him. He has been given authority to govern, proclaim and implement church functions or declare proclamations concerning church teaching. Recall, when Jesus asked the disciples, “Who do men say that I am?” It was Peter who responded with, “Thou are the Christ, the Son of the Living God,” to which Jesus answers, “Simon Bar-Jonah…this has not been revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my heavenly Father!”. This is a defining moment in which Peter is being singled out to be a chosen leader by Christ Himself (Perhaps, Jesus was waiting to see who the Father was going to choose for this leadership role when he asked them this question…Oh Peter…it’s you!)

John’s verse is in reference to Jesus breathing the Holy Spirit onto the whole of the Apostles giving them authority to forgive sins in His name.

What is Jesus repeating? One, giving Peter the authority to be the leader of the Church and then two giving the authority to all the Apostles the power to forgive sins. One is to a single person, Peter. The other is to all the Apostles, including Peter.

Ah no champ; you’re referring to Matthew chapter 16. I’m asking about chapter 18.

 

[Wesrock]

Is it wrong for two different gospel traditions to pass on the message in different ways?

Is there something odd about Jesus repeating his instructions? The disciples had been on an emotional roller coaster for the past month. Is it wrong to give them a reminder of their commission going forward of how they should continue after he ascends to the Father?

Perhaps he did repeat himself, but I’m not understanding why that would be a headscratcher.

 

[PJM]

Isn’t Jesus saying the same thing in these two verses in a different way? If so, why does he repeat it?

Here first is John 20: 19-23 so we can see the repetition in question.

John.20 Verses 19 to 23
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them,** “Peace be with you.” **
[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, **“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” **
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. [23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

Several points can be made here

1. God could have BUT CHOOSE NOT TO continue OT use of His priest in the covering over of their sins WHY NOT
2. ANSWER: Rom.6: 14-15 "[14] For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.[15] What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
3. So the duplicated message of GOD"S desire for humanity, is that We be enables to TRULY find forgiveness for our sins through the ONLY TRULY KNOWN way; God’s Ordained manner for sin forgiveness and thus the path to our inner PEACE

"Peace be with you" repeated TWICE in this teaching is to point out GOD"S intended purpose for HIS Instituting Catholic Sacramental Confession; the ONLY GOD-approved method. … Our sins DESTROY US; while His Sacramental Confession is the CURE to heal us GODS way.

Thanks for asking,

Continued Blessings,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Isn’t Jesus saying the same thing in these two verses in a different way? If so, why does he repeat it?

I already addressed John 20: 19-23

In Mt 16:18 -19 there are TWO meanings POSSIBLE

Matt.16 Verses 18 to 19 “[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

I SUSPECT you mean verse 19, rather than 18 here?

The first meaning here is unlimited Power of Governance as was common for kings to give to a visor, or chief-assistant" who was ACTUALLY given THEE keys to the walled in cities gates, AND the unlimited Power of Governance of that city; answerable ONLY to :the king"

Here Jesus is the KING and & Peter in the now empowered visor.

and As a part of that NEW Power [read John :17:18 & 20:21] is also the POWER and authority for sin forgiveness.

THANKS for asking

GBY

 

[Augustine3]

I already addressed John 20: 19-23

In Mt 16:18 -19 there are TWO meanings POSSIBLE

Matt.16 Verses 18 to 19 “[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

I SUSPECT you mean verse 19, rather than 18 here?

The first meaning here is unlimited Power of Governance as was common for kings to give to a visor, or chief-assistant" who was ACTUALLY given THEE keys to the walled in cities gates, AND the unlimited Power of Governance of that city; answerable ONLY to :the king"

Here Jesus is the KING and & Peter in the now empowered visor.

and As a part of that NEW Power [read John :17:18 & 20:21] is also the POWER and authority for sin forgiveness.

THANKS for asking

GBY

Did you read my post #3 brother?

Ah no champ; you’re referring to Matthew chapter 16. I’m asking about chapter 18.

 

[mgn2010]

Matthew, chapter 18 begins, “At that time the disciples approached Jesus and said…” The whole chapter has Jesus apparently directing his comments to all of his followers and among other things being mentioned, gives them the power to bind and loose. This is in concert with Catholic teaching that the bishops along with the pope have authority to declare proclamations regarding church teaching. Peter is also given this authority singularly as stated in Matthew 16:18-19.

John’s verse 20:23 is dealing with the authority to forgive sins. This is granted to all the Apostles.

I am assuming your question is in regards to the duplicity of granting authority in these two verses? One points to the binding and loosing and the other concerns the forgiving of sins.

Or maybe you can clarify the “repeating” aspect to your question.

 

[PJM]

Isn’t Jesus saying the same thing in these two verses in a different way? If so, why does he repeat it?

WOOPS, I did the Mt: 16: 18 and NOT Mt 18:18 thing too:blush:

Matt.18: [18] Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

BUT what I shared about Mt 16:18 applies equally to Mt 18:18 and The John teaching:thumbsup:

In BOTH instances the Power and Authority was intended for ALL of the Apostles and by necessity [Mt 10:1-5 compared to Mt 28:19-20], to their successors as well.

Sorry,

GBY

 

[jlhargus]

Isn’t Jesus saying the same thing in these two verses in a different way? If so, why does he repeat it?

Mt18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.]

[Jn20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:]

Jn20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.] I would say in Mt18:18 he gives all the apostles in union with the one holder of the Keys, Peter, who can bind and loose singularly if need be.

I would say in Mt18:18 Christ confers the authority, to all the apostles in union with Peter, to bind and loose which includes more than just loosing form sin, as already pointed out in another post.

In Jn20:21-23 Christ actually gives the power of the Holy Spirit establishing the Sacrament of Reconciliation which actually remit sin. Restoring the Spirit to the sinner.