Matthew 19:21 and Purgatory

[rcwitness]

The problem for protestants, which i was raised one, looking at the doctrine of Purgatory is that it cannot be understood with the context of the other doctrines of the denominations. In context of the rest of Catholic teaching it will be understood. It is NOT taking away from Christ’s sacrifice…if I believed that, I would run from The Catholic Church as fast as I could. Likewise, if I believed The teaching of Purgatory stepped outside of God’s grace, I would have no part in it.

 

[rinnie]

Sorry, but it’s simply not true to say that Protestants accept purgatory as fact. In point of fact, that was one of the key points of the reformation - protestants do NOT believe in purgatory and believe that we are perfected through faith in Christ. That God views us through Christ Jesus laying aside our sin.

That is very different.

You are right. I don’t know many who accept Purgatory. Why is beyond me.

Wouldn’t it be great if faith perfected us. But it don’t.

Wouldn’t it be great if God viewed us through Christ and ignored all of our sin.

But unfortunately thats not how it works. I mean if it were it would make half of the bible meaningless don’t you agree.

I mean why would he give the Apostles the power to forgive our sin in his name? Silly don’t you think if God views us through Jesus laying aside our sin. Why confess and for goodness sakes why bother. Its all good.

And repent heck no. meaningless. I mean after all Jesus did all of our suffering for us right.

So what happens to unrepented sin, Not to worry right? Jesus repented for us??

 

[rinnie]

Greetings to Gorgias

The root word for τετέλεσται is :

Strong’s Greek: 5055. τελέω (teleó) — 28 Occurrences
In NT.

As stated by the Strong’s Concordance Greek translation.

biblehub.com/interlinear/john/19.htm

You said :

This is not an expression of a business deal that has been completed…

Business deals have contracts or agreements .

God did have an agreement with man in the Covenant .
The covenant could not be fulfilled by man because of his
Imperfections and sin.

For all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God.

But this Agreement was fulfilled by another Man called Jesus.
A perfect Man.

Therefore he said " It is finished"

Paid in full by the blood of the true Lamb of God.

I ask anybody:
What else do we need to pay if it has been paid in full at the cross ?

According to your statements nothing. We have nothing to pay Jesus paid for everything. Our part is nothing.

Sin all your want right?

But tell me this if all of this is true why do people go to hell? What causes this?

Only not believing in Christ?

Because the devil sure believed and he is not getting in. Why? Because his faith didn’t save him. He choose to live his life his way.

Maybe you could explain this to me. Because I never saw the devil deny Christ except by his sinning.

 

[Gorgias]

Greetings to Gorgias

The root word for τετέλεσται is :

Strong’s Greek: 5055. τελέω (teleó) — 28 Occurrences
In NT.

Yes, that certainly is the root upon which τετέλεσται is based.

Therefore he said " It is finished"

Paid in full by the blood of the true Lamb of God.

“it is finished”, not “it is paid”. Take a look at the 28 occurrences that you referenced. In which is the translation “finished” and in which “paid”? The only times that we translate teleo as ‘paid’ are in the context of taxes. On the cross, Jesus isn’t paying taxes.

Blessings,

G.

What else do we need to pay if it has been paid in full at the cross ?

Nothing. Purgatory isn’t ‘payment’; rather, it is ‘being made perfect’. When your car loan is paid off, you never need to make another payment on it. On your way to a big date, though, if you run it through mud puddles, it becomes dirty. You don’t run to the bank and say, “here’s another payment!”… but you do have to run it through the car wash…

 

[kmcarl56]

Matthew 19:

In the context of purgatory, this makes so much sense. What must the rich young man do to gain eternal life?? Follow the commandments.

My view of purgatory is consistent with Church teaching - we need it to be perfected for Heaven.

The young man asks what he still lacks. ** How can he lack ANYTHING?** He is already set to have eternal life? But, Jesus says instead, “If you want to be perfect…” Why would he want to be perfect? To avoid the purgation that will take place in the next life.

Indeed! The young man chooses to cling to his possessions rather than to follow Christ. The attachment to material things must be burned out of us in order to achieve the perfection needed for Heaven!

Then, Jesus says, “It will be hard…” I think this verse is often times incorrectly taken to mean that a rich person is not likely to gain eternal life. But, that’s not what this says. It says that entry will be hard. Why would it be hard? Because, there’s a purification process that is going to be hard process to endure.

So, do I have this wrong?

I would ask you the following:

Since Jesus died on the cross for all sinners, and we are all sinners, then why does He ask us to pray to God for forgiveness of our sins?

If we pray daily and ask Him to forgive all of our sins, doesn’t He?

When we ask God to forgive our sins, aren’t we washed clean from our sins?

Isn’t it hard NOT to sin, and to live a Christian life, no matter how rich we are?

Aren’t the “rich in Christ” promised entrance into Heaven?

If so, then why do we need pergatory? We are cleansed from the original sin by baptism. We are cleansed from sin when we ask God to forgive us, every time, with no questions asked. Thus, we are purified by God’s grace and mercy. If we keep sinning in the same way day after day, then die, we have fallen away from God’s glory and are unrighteous. Those who are not righteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God, which is Heaven.

I am asking all here: Am I wrong about this, or not?

 

[Gorgias]

I would ask you the following:

Since Jesus died on the cross for all sinners, and we are all sinners, then why does He ask us to pray to God for forgiveness of our sins?

If we pray daily and ask Him to forgive all of our sins, doesn’t He?

When Jesus gave the apostles the gift of the Holy Spirit (John 20:22-23), why did He tell them to forgive sins? If we’re just supposed to pray to God, why tell the apostles to forgive sins in His name?

When we ask God to forgive our sins, aren’t we washed clean from our sins?

Tell me – when your sins are forgiven, are you washed clean from that particular instance of sinning, or is your tendency to commit that sin washed clean? If you still have the tendency to sin, are you ‘washed clean’ per se, or simply forgiven? If only ‘forgiven’, then will you enter heaven with the tendency to sin?

If so, then why do we need pergatory? We are cleansed from the original sin by baptism. We are cleansed from sin when we ask God to forgive us, every time, with no questions asked. Thus, we are purified by God’s grace and mercy.

Our sins can certainly be forgiven by God. When our sins are forgiven, does that make us perfect? (No.) Will we be imperfect in heaven? (No.) Then, doesn’t something have to happen, in the space between “here on earth, forgiven but imperfect” and “there in heaven, forgiven and perfect”…? (Yes!)

That’s what purgatory is – presuming that we are forgiven and are free from original sin and personal sin, and therefore, able to inherit heaven, purgatory is the process of being purified and made perfect, so that we may spend eternity in heaven.

If we keep sinning in the same way day after day, then die, we have fallen away from God’s glory and are unrighteous. Those who are not righteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God, which is Heaven.

Right. But you’re missing a distinction: those who are righteous but imperfect still must be perfected before entering heaven.

 

[in_servitude]

I would ask you the following:

Did you answer my question? I didn’t see it - that doesn’t seem fair.

Since Jesus died on the cross for all sinners, and we are all sinners, then why does He ask us to pray to God for forgiveness of our sins?

I can only speculate on His purpose, but in my own situation, I require His forgiveness before I could possibly approach Him. It seems only reasonable that I should beg for His forgiveness.

If we pray daily and ask Him to forgive all of our sins, doesn’t He?

Hmm… Assuming that the intentions are good, I have no reason to suspect otherwise.

When we ask God to forgive our sins, aren’t we washed clean from our sins?

From the sin, yes. From the consequence, no. I recently met a woman who was born without a hand. The reason given to her was that her mother used Meth while she was in utero. The mother need pray only once in asking for forgiveness - but the consequence of her sin remains. And, in this case, her child pays a price.

Isn’t it hard NOT to sin, and to live a Christian life, no matter how rich we are?

That has been my experience.

Aren’t the “rich in Christ” promised entrance into Heaven?

I’m not familiar with this phrase. Perhaps you could shed some light on it.

If so, then why do we need pergatory? We are cleansed from the original sin by baptism. We are cleansed from sin when we ask God to forgive us, every time, with no questions asked. Thus, we are purified by God’s grace and mercy. If we keep sinning in the same way day after day, then die, we have fallen away from God’s glory and are unrighteous. Those who are not righteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God, which is Heaven.

I am asking all here: Am I wrong about this, or not?

It is technically possible to stop doing a given sin. For example: over eating (to the point it is a sin of gluttony). If a person focuses long enough and hard enough, they can eventually work themselves out of the attachment toward over eating food. Once that person has worked hard to eliminate that desire to sin from their soul, they are then approaching perfection. Perfection… that’s an interesting word right there.

The rich man was attached to his worldly items because he lacked perfection. Christ told him that if he wanted to be perfect (to achieve perfection?), he needed to disconnect (via selling them) from all of his worldly items.

Was the rich man righteous? I would say, “yes.” He followed all of the laws, especially the ones Jesus calls out in particular. But, he wasn’t perfect. I think that had the rich man discarded all worldly items, he would probably eventually see that life is actually better when he is just following Christ and not trying to find comfort in worldly goods. That process would be a purgation for his soul here on Earth. Perhaps, then, he would have found the narrow gate.

 

[Lawofcausality]

Greetings everyone,

I hear a lot of theories of Purgatory and Purification but there is no
Scripture to back it up. One person even said that Purgatory was a gift
Of God, yet scripture does not list it as a gift .

Where Is Purgatory at? And how does it come in play with the 1000 years with Christ?

 

[JRKH]

Greetings everyone,

I hear a lot of theories of Purgatory and Purification but there is no
Scripture to back it up.

Correction - you mean that you do not see any scripture backing it up…
In fact there ARE scriptures to back it up. SEE HERE for an explanation along with scripture references.

Peace
James

 

[Lawofcausality]

Greetings to all,

Thank you all for your answers . Even though I do not agree on
A lot of Catholic interpretations , Our Lord has made it clear To me that
we are both on the same side . I pray that our Lord will bless us all in our
Ministry and that he will grant us all Peace and Love in Jesus, Amen.

Farewell Friends !

 

[JRKH]

Greetings to all,

Thank you all for your answers . Even though I do not agree on
A lot of Catholic interpretations , Our Lord has made it clear To me that
we are both on the same side . I pray that our Lord will bless us all in our
Ministry and that he will grant us all Peace and Love in Jesus, Amen.

Farewell Friends !

happy to have helped.

Peace
James