Matthew 24:28

[Rooibok]

Below we have 4 different Bibles and the meaning seems to be different.

Please explain the Catholic understanding of Matthew 24:28

Does it mean body (Latin corpus) as in Church or dead body?

Matthew 24:28
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.

Matthew 24:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:28

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Matthew 24:28
The Scriptures (Messianism)
28“For wherever the dead body is, there the eagles shall be gathered together

 

[patrick457]

Below we have 4 different Bibles and the meaning seems to be different.

Please explain the Catholic understanding of Matthew 24:28

Does it mean body (Latin corpus) as in Church or dead body?

Matthew 24:28
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.

Matthew 24:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:28

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Matthew 24:28
The Scriptures (Messianism)
28“For wherever the dead body is, there the eagles shall be gathered together

Ptoma means ‘corpse’ or ‘carcass’, the kind your body and mine would be when we die.

 

[thistle]

Below we have 4 different Bibles and the meaning seems to be different.

Please explain the Catholic understanding of Matthew 24:28

Does it mean body (Latin corpus) as in Church or dead body?

Matthew 24:28
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
28 Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together.

Matthew 24:28
King James Version (KJV)
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:28

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Matthew 24:28
The Scriptures (Messianism)
28“For wherever the dead body is, there the eagles shall be gathered together

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 28. Wheresoever the body,[3] &c. This seems to have been a proverb or common saying among the Jews. Several of the ancient interpreters, by this body, understand Christ himself, who died for us; and they tell us, that at his second coming the angels and saints, like eagles, with incredible swiftness, will join him at the place of judgment. (Witham) — When he shall come to judgment, all, as it were by a natural instinct, shall fly to meet him, and receive their judgment. St. Hilary understands this literally; that where his body shall hang upon the cross, there will he appear in judgment, i.e. near the valley of Josaphat; in which place the prophet Joel (chap. iii. ver. 2,) declares, that the general judgment shall take place. (Tirinus)

 

[TimothyH]

Those passages are from the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus prophesies about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and killing of 1.2 million Jews which was to take place in 70AD.

The Olivet Discourse is also about the birth of the Church with references to a fig tree budding in spring and a woman in labor about to give birth.

Eagles and vultures eat flesh, a possible reference to the death of the Jews. The Romans had eagles as symbols on their military standards and set one up in the temple, right in the Holy of Holies, prior to the destruction of Jerusalem. Vultures only eat dead flesh so there may be a connection to the death of the Jews there. The image of birds were often a used in the Old Testament as a metaphor for gentiles, or gentile nations.

Anything having to do with the Olivet Discourse and what it is about will certainly touch upon the end times, and that is likely to spark a riot among Christians, if not Catholics. I participated in a thread here which was about the exact same passage, Matthew 24:28. That was close to two years ago, and I’m not sure I would have taken such a hard line about agreeing and disagreeing with people so strongly now as I did then.

It is an interesting topic though.

-Tim-

 

[Rooibok]

Ptoma means ‘corpse’ or ‘carcass’, the kind your body and mine would be when we die.

My translation below

Greek
Οπουδήποτε το σώμα πρέπει να είναι, πρέπει να υπάρχουν οι αετοί επίσης να συγκεντρωθούν

Latin
Ubicumque fuerit corpus, illic congregabuntur et aquilæ.

The meaning of corpus could also be corpus christi (Body of Christ) the Eucharist.

It still seems to me one of the versions have been changed on purpose or unknowingly.

Are the eagles gathering where the Catholic Church and the Eucharist is or are the eagles/vultures gathering where the dead bodies are before the last judgement?.

 

[COPLAND_3]

Cornelius a Lapide says

Carcase. The Vulg. seems to have read σω̃μα, as some copies still have it. But a better reading is πτω̃μα, which properly signifies ruin, fall, and from hence comes to mean a carcase. Πτω̃μα comes from πίπτω, as cadaver from cadendo. But by πτω̃μα, Salmeron understands prey, hunting, either for the body of a bird, a hare, or some such thing as eagles hunt. This is called πτω̃μα, because the bodies of those creatures which eagles capture fall upon the earth. For the eagle is too noble to eat carrion, or the dead body of anything save of what it has itself captured and killed.

Aristotle, however (lib. 9, Hislor. Anim. c. 32), enumerate Six kinds of eagles, and amongst them the γυπάετον, or vulture-eagle, that is to say, a species which seeks out dead bodies. Hence the LXX. in Job xxxix. 27 translate by γύψ. This is the bird of which Christ here speaks, according to Aldrovandus and others. Both meanings and readings suit this passage, as I will presently show.

 

[Rooibok]

Those passages are from the Olivet Discourse, where Jesus prophesies about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem and killing of 1.2 million Jews which was to take place in 70AD.

-Tim-

The Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible also indicate as the description it is before the last judgement.

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
Gospel According to Saint Matthew
Christ foretells the destruction of the temple, with the signs that shall come before it and before the last judgment. We must always watch.

 

[patrick457]

My translation below

Greek
Οπουδ口ποτε το σ口μα πρ口πει να ε口ναι, πρ口πει να υπ口ρχουν οι αετο口 επ口ση口 να συγκεντρωθο口ν

Latin
Ubicumque fuerit corpus, illic congregabuntur et aquil口.

The meaning of corpus could also be corpus christi (Body of Christ) the Eucharist.

It still seems to me one of the versions have been changed on purpose or unknowingly.

Are the eagles gathering where the Catholic Church and the Eucharist is or are the eagles/vultures gathering where the dead bodies are before the last judgement?.

I think you’re reading too much on the word ptoma (Greek, ‘corpse’) or corpus (Latin, ‘body’). According to one interpretation, the sense here is that just as the presence of carrion and dead flesh is indicated by birds of prey circling over it, Jesus’ coming will be clearly obvious to all.

 

[TimothyH]

The Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible also indicate as the description it is before the last judgement.

Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible
Gospel According to Saint Matthew
Christ foretells the destruction of the temple, with the signs that shall come before it and before the last judgment. We must always watch.

This is why I said we can get into a big argument here.

I happen to think that the Olivet Discourse has its ultimate fulfillment in the destruction of the temple, the end of temple worship and animal sacrifice, the death of 1.2 million Jews in Jerusalem, and the birth of the Church. My belief is that all of Christ’s statements can be traced to actual events which occurred in 70AD or as a direct result.

I’m not saying that parts or even all of the Olivet Discourse have nothing to do with final judement and the end of time, but that the ultimate fulfillment of Christ’s words are found in the events of 70AD. If one looks at what actually too place, Christ’s words can be seen as prophecy which was fulfilled.

That is my view. Some will strongly disagree, and that’s OK with me. Anything having to do with apocalyptic passages or books in the Bible is bound to incite strong emotion.

I see that Patrick has chimed in. Should be interesting.

-Tim-

 

[COPLAND_3]

I think Fr. William Most has a good position on multible fulfillment concerning those prophecies that could be applied to things that have already happened and the end of time.

 

[Rooibok]

Thank you to all.
I am still in doubt but will ponder and let the Holy Spirit guide me.

This link what Saint Alphonsus doctor of the Church had to say in Visits to the Blessed Sacrament Chapter 21 (1696 - 1797)

catholictradition.org/Eucharist/visit21.htm

*Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles also be gathered together. [Matt. xxiv. 23] *The Saints generally understand by this body that of Jesus Christ; and by the eagles, souls who being detached from creatures, rise above the things of the earth, and fly towards Heaven, after which they always sigh in thought and affection, and where they constantly dwell. These eagles also find their paradise on earth wherever they find Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament; so much so, indeed, that they seem never to tire hovering around Him. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I find it difficult to understand why there is different opions by Catholics on only one verse.

Another article explains by using the word body as corps (carcass) and not body as in corpus (Body of Christ) takes away the prophecy of Matthew 24. As it has been put: Gone is the prophecy, Gone is the poetry, Gone is the symbolism and Gone are the consolation and the hope. And in their place? At best a trite little truism.

 

[Rooibok]

Cornelius a Lapide says

Carcase. The Vulg. seems to have read σω̃μα, as some copies still have it. But a better reading is πτω̃μα, which properly signifies ruin, fall, and from hence comes to mean a carcase. Πτω̃μα comes from πίπτω, as cadaver from cadendo. But by πτω̃μα, Salmeron understands prey, hunting, either for the body of a bird, a hare, or some such thing as eagles hunt. This is called πτω̃μα, because the bodies of those creatures which eagles capture fall upon the earth. For the eagle is too noble to eat carrion, or the dead body of anything save of what it has itself captured and killed.

Aristotle, however (lib. 9, Hislor. Anim. c. 32), enumerate Six kinds of eagles, and amongst them the γυπάετον, or vulture-eagle, that is to say, a species which seeks out dead bodies. Hence the LXX. in Job xxxix. 27 translate by γύψ. This is the bird of which Christ here speaks, according to Aldrovandus and others. Both meanings and readings suit this passage, as I will presently show.

Thank you for the link

This link tells a different opinion as my “answer to all” in above post of mine

catholictradition.org/Eucharist/visit21.htm

 

[patrick457]

Thank you to all.
I am still in doubt but will ponder and let the Holy Spirit guide me.

This link what Saint Alphonsus doctor of the Church had to say in Visits to the Blessed Sacrament Chapter 21 (1696 - 1797)

catholictradition.org/Eucharist/visit21.htm

*Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles also be gathered together. [Matt. xxiv. 23] *The Saints generally understand by this body that of Jesus Christ; and by the eagles, souls who being detached from creatures, rise above the things of the earth, and fly towards Heaven, after which they always sigh in thought and affection, and where they constantly dwell. These eagles also find their paradise on earth wherever they find Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament; so much so, indeed, that they seem never to tire hovering around Him. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I find it difficult to understand why there is different opions by Catholics on only one verse.

Many people think that there is one and only one way Scripture could be read, that there is only one possible sense. On the contrary, there are actually different layers of meaning, different senses in Scripture: it is polyvocal enough that there are literally innumerable ways one could read the text.

 

[Rooibok]

Many people think that there is one and only one way Scripture could be read, that there is only one possible sense. On the contrary, there are actually different layers of meaning, different senses in Scripture: it is polyvocal enough that there are literally innumerable ways one could read the text.

Thank you Patric457

In this case then, if I think the “body” means the Eucharist at the end times there is nothing wrong if I tell a non Catholic this who’s Bible says “dead body”. Both arguments are correct.

 

[mercytruth]

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 28. Wheresoever the body,[3] &c. This seems to have been a proverb or common saying among the Jews.

Several of the ancient interpreters, by this body, understand Christ himself, who died for us; and they tell us, that at his second coming the angels and saints, like eagles, with incredible swiftness, will join him at the place of judgment. (Witham) --- When he shall come to judgment, all, as it were by a natural instinct, shall fly to meet him, and receive their judgment

.

This interpretation is much like that of the ‘rapture’ explanation. As it is the response to the disciples query in Luke 17:36: "They answering, say to him: Where, Lord?"

St. Hilary understands this literally; that where his body shall hang upon the cross, there will he appear in judgment, i.e. near the valley of Josaphat; in which place the prophet Joel (chap. iii. ver. 2,) declares, that the general judgment shall take place. (Tirinus)

 

[mercytruth]

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 28. Wheresoever the body,[3] &c. This seems to have been a proverb or common saying among the Jews. Several of the ancient interpreters, by this body, understand Christ himself, who died for us; and they tell us, that at his second coming the angels and saints, like eagles, with incredible swiftness, will join him at the place of judgment. (Witham) — When he shall come to judgment, all, as it were by a natural instinct, shall fly to meet him, and receive their judgment. St. Hilary understands this literally; that where his body shall hang upon the cross, there will he appear in judgment, i.e. near the valley of Josaphat; in which place the prophet Joel (chap. iii. ver. 2,) declares, that the general judgment shall take place. (Tirinus)

Several of the ancient interpreters, by this body, understand Christ himself, who died for us; and they tell us, that at his second coming the angels and saints, like eagles, with incredible swiftness, will join him at the place of judgment. (Witham)

This is similar to the ‘rapture’ interpretation, as a response to the disciples inquiry to Jesus Christ in Luke 17:36: "They answering him, say to him, Where, Lord?"

 

[Civitate_Dei]

When i was stifying theology i read a boo
k (i cant remember who by) the author thought this verse was in fact about the jewish zealots fighting the romans and the aftermath of a battle the eagles refer to roman legionary stsndards being littrted amongst the corpses. Iknow its a diff interpretation