Matthew 24:36 Mark 13:32

[elcristero]

How do I defend aginst these 2 verses when JWs use them, in explaining that Jesus is not God??? ¡¡¡VIVA CRISTO REY!!!

 

[Jesus_123]

+Jehovah Witnesses are members of a cult of darkness . . . ***and definitely aren’t Christian ***. . . they have darkly twisted, changed and corrupted . . . God’s **Holy :bible1: Word ** . . . to suit themselves . . . even as Satan in the wilderness tempted our . . . Lord and Saviour . . . Jesus Christ . . . in the wilderness of this sinful world with isolated misuse and abuse of God’s Word . . . so the dark enemy of souls uses these individuals to use this disordered corrupt technique to try to sway, change and break the faith of Christians and to draw unsuspecting souls into their web of deceit . . . St. John in Sacred Scripture speaks to this problem specifically and warns against the danger of contact with them and wisely and firmly counsels against receiving them and the dangers of having anything whatsoever to do with such persons . . .

[7] :bible1: For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that you lose not the things which you have wrought: but that you may receive a full reward. [9] Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the **Father **and the Son. [10] If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him NOT into the house nor say to him, God speed you. [11] For he that saith unto him, God speed you, communicateth with his wicked works. - 2 John 1:7-11​

****. . . :coffeeread: . . . ****
The Battle Between Good and Evil
- Father John Corapi

"One cannot understand reality if one brackets out a large portion of reality - the preternatural order ( :angel1: angels and demons). If you try to arrive at valid conclusions concerning reality, but have left out a good part of that reality you are engaged in an exercise in futility. So many things today can only be understood in the light of this spiritual reality. Have you ever wondered why so many apparently educated and intelligent people just don’t get it, especially with respect to such life and death matters as abortion?

There is a battle that goes on in the spiritual order between the forces of God and the forces of Satan, “the adversary.” This battle between cosmic good and evil, between :angel1: angels and demons, has man caught in the crosshairs. Man is an active player in his own salvation. We need the help of our allies the :angel1: angels. To fail to enlist their :angel1: help is reckless. To fail to realize the reality of the enemy forces, the demonic legions, can be ultimately and eternally fatal.

We are at war and our battle is NOT against flesh and blood, as St. Paul warns us in Ephesians 6. The battle between good and evil, truth and lies, life and death involves these angelic legions - good and evil. We are soldiers in God’s army, like it or not, believe it or not. We must be aware of these fundamental teachings, learn them, and live in accordance with them."

- from Father Corapi’s
October 27, 2009 Newsletter​

:bible1: EPHESIANS 6:12

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places.​

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit
as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be
world without end.
Amen.

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Precious Lord+
. . . God the Son+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Mary+
. . . Blessed Holy Virgin+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+​

 

[Barbkw]

Matthew 24:36

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Mark 13:32

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

They use this sentance to disprove the divinity of Jesus?

The Early Church and the Councils that fought heresies concerning the divinity of Jesus held fast to the knowledge that the Trinity exists in three distinct persons. Separate yet One.

I’d suggest showing them the Catechism of the Catholic Church, to search under the word “Trinity”.

How sad.

What then, do JWs believe happened at the Annunciation?

God the Father was not healing Mary so that she would conceive (as He had done with Issac’s and John the Baptist’s birth).

Mary conceived through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God, became human flesh.

 

[Robbinson]

How do I defend aginst these 2 verses when JWs use them, in explaining that Jesus is not God??? ¡¡¡VIVA CRISTO REY!!!

Jesus is “one person” with two distinct natures, one divine and one fully human.

Jesus as “man” did not know the hour or the day of the second coming. God, the Father knows. Yet, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father (3 distinct persons) together make up a single God head (this is the doctrine of the T rinity which is denied by JWs).

They have existed as “one” (echad) (a compound unity) since the beginning of time.

As to the divinity of Jesus - there are many other verses pointing directly to his divinity which these verses must be interpreted in harmony with:

Thomas calls Jesus,“my lord and my God” (without contest from Jessus)

Jesus said that before Abraham was, “I am” (God is I am who I am) and the statement points directly to his divinity and pre-existance in time before man.

Jesus said that he and the Father are One (there are many others).

I repsect the JWs and have some who are friends. Their devotion to scripture and manner in which they live their lives is admirable. Their conception of God is skewed by the translation of scripture they used (written in the last century with odd translations of Greek and Hebrew), most notably in their denial of the Trinity (denial that Christ is God and belief he is the arch angel Michael (of course, he can’t be as he accepts worship); and some odd ideas about Heaven and eschatology.

I love them however as seekers of God and of truth.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[ab75]

+Jehovah Witnesses are members of a cult of darkness . . . ***and definitely aren’t Christian ***. . . they have darkly twisted, changed and corrupted . . . God’s **Holy :bible1: Word ** . . . to suit themselves . . . even as Satan in the wilderness tempted our . . . Lord and Saviour . . . Jesus Christ . . . in the wilderness of this sinful world with isolated misuse and abuse of God’s Word . . . so the dark enemy of souls uses these individuals to use this disordered corrupt technique to try to sway, change and break the faith of Christians and to draw unsuspecting souls into their web of deceit . . . St. John in Sacred Scripture speaks to this problem specifically and warns against the danger of contact with them and wisely and firmly counsels against receiving them and the dangers of having anything whatsoever to do with such persons . . .

[7] :bible1: For many seducers are gone out into the world, who confess NOT that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: this is a seducer and an antichrist. [8] Look to yourselves, that you lose not the things which you have wrought: but that you may receive a full reward. [9] Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that continueth in the doctrine, the same hath both the **Father **and the Son. [10] If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him NOT into the house nor say to him, God speed you. [11] For he that saith unto him, God speed you, communicateth with his wicked works. - 2 John 1:7-11​

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit
as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be
world without end.
Amen.

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Precious Lord+
. . . God the Son+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Mary+
. . . Blessed Holy Virgin+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+​

I think it is fair to realize how dangerous there message and teaching is, however to also realize that most practicing Jehovah’s witnesses are seeking God with Zeal and are not intentially distorting the truth. Many of them are ex-Catholics who have been terribly catechized and didn’t have the community or local Church support to answer the Jehovah’s Witnesses questions. This is the unfortunate reality of many Churches in the US over the last generation (which I believe is changing for the better).

Many of this people have been persecuted by family and friends to enter what they feel is the truth (which is something they use to “recruit”, they will ask if you are being persecuted for being Catholic, and since most uncatechized Catholics are not, it will be “proof” they aren’t following Jesus). Yes it is difficult to get them to see that their faith is wrong, because they have sacrafced so much for it, however it can be done and most individuals are not evil, and do sincerely desire the truth.

 

[ab75]

Barbkw:

How sad.

What then, do JWs believe happened at the Annunciation?

God the Father was not healing Mary so that she would conceive (as He had done with Issac’s and John the Baptist’s birth).

Mary conceived through the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God, became human flesh.

They are a 19th/20th century reimmergence of the arian heresy that almost ripped the Church apart in the 4th century. A close and careful look at the scriptures, in light of our limited human understanding, make it reasonable to understand how someone might come to their conclusion on Jesus using scripture alone without guidance. I believe the total of “scripture alone” does decidedly support the trinity, which our tradition soundly confirms. However, it would be easy to see, how someone without background and knowledge could study the scriptures and come to their position that Jesus is subserviant to the Father and was created from/by the Father.

It is a perfect example of what can happen with Scripture alone.

 

[ab75]

How do I defend aginst these 2 verses when JWs use them, in explaining that Jesus is not God??? ¡¡¡VIVA CRISTO REY!!!

Honestly,

I would recommend finding a good book that answers there questions and reading it prayfully before going to deep on these issues. They know exactly how to question someones beliefs, and it is important to know a lot of what they teach and why it’s incorrect prior to discussion to be able to explain our faith.

 

[Mark77]

**There are some great resources on the CA website.

Go to the CA Homepage-Library-Faith Tracts-NonCatholic groups; catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp

From the site;

"Is Christ God?

1. “Christ is God’s Son and is inferior to him.” Given in support of this position are these verses: “And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased’” (Matt. 3:17). “I proceeded and came forth from God” (John 8:42). “If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17). “The head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God” (1 Cor. 11:3). “When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things under him, that God may be everything to every one” (1 Cor. 15:28).

At first glance these citations seem imposing. It does seem that Christ is inferior to God the Father in some sense. But the New Testament also has verses which clearly show Christ and the Father to be equals. For example, there is John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.” Or, “He who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9). Or, “All that the Father has is mine” (John 16:15). Or, “The Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God” (John 5:18). Or, “[Jesus], though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be g.asped” (Phil. 2:6). These seem to contradict the other verses.

How do we make sense of all this? By keeping in mind that Jesus is both God and man. Some verses, such as these last five, refer exclusively to his Godhead. Others refer to his humanity. So far as he is God, Jesus is equal to the Father. Christ’s human nature, though, is created and is therefore inferior to the Father. But to focus on this aspect of Christ to the exclusion of his divine nature is a gross misunderstanding of who and what the Bible says Jesus Christ is. Other verses cited by the Witnesses, such as Matthew 3:17, show merely that Christ is God’s Son, not that he is inferior (in fact, John 5:18 shows that being God’s Son is being equal to God). **

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark