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tablecorner
Guest
Does Matt 25 :31-46 show that sola fide is not true?
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Yes. Otherwise Jesus would.have judged them by their faith.
F
fhansen
Guest
Yes, and as the Church so wisely teaches regarding our particular judgment in para 1022 of the Catechism, quoting St John of the Cross,
“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.”
Love is the motivation for the kind of acts done “for the least of these” in Matt 25.
“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.”
Love is the motivation for the kind of acts done “for the least of these” in Matt 25.
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annad347
Guest
How can anyone know they loved enough or worked hard enough, for God’s grace?
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
How can you have faith without works?
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annad347
Guest
Is that question to me?
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Yes. It is. (10 characters)
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annad347
Guest
That’s not fair, if I answer you first, I won’t get the answer to my question. You might take my answer.
How can anyone know they loved enough or worked hard enough, for God’s grace?
How can anyone know they loved enough or worked hard enough, for God’s grace?
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
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Vico
Guest
A Catholic dogma of faith (from the Council of Trent) is (as put by Ludwig Ott in Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma):
As stated at the Council of Trent:
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annad347
Guest
I know I was addressing the board… you said your question was meant for me, I was guessing it was asked because of the question I asked
I dont know what a strawman question means.
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annad347
Guest
That’s a shame, to think you must spend your entire life working for the grace of God but can never have the faith you’ve gained it until you die…isnt that like living with no hope?
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Vico
Guest
Reasonable assurance it the best case without a Divine Revelation. So there is hope.Vico:
That’s a shame, to think you must spend your entire life working for the grace of God but can never have the faith you’ve gained it until you die…isnt that like living with no hope?
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
Catholics have never said they work for grace. You are debating a strawman.
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fhansen
Guest
We can’t. Grace is always a free gift. And yet, as we cooperate with grace it leads to more grace and justice yet. Remember that all justice or righteousness comes from God anyway. But it can be increased, with no limit, perhaps, as we increasingly want and embrace it, cooperating with Him in His work of perfecting us. At the end of our lives God, who knows and judges by the heart, determines how we’ve done with what we’ve been given. I think the Parable of the Talents sheds much light on this.
From the Council of Trent, session 6:
CHAPTER X
THE INCREASE OF THE JUSTIFICATION RECEIVED
Having, therefore, been thus justified and made the friends and domestics of God, advancing from virtue to virtue, they are renewed, as the Apostle says, day by day, that is, mortifying the members of their flesh, and presenting them as instruments of justice unto sanctification, they, through the observance of the commandments of God and of the Church, faith cooperating with good works, increase in that justice received through the grace of Christ and are further justified, as it is written:
He that is just, let him be justified still; and, Be not afraid to be justified even to death; and again, Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?
This increase of justice holy Church asks for when she prays:
“Give unto us, O Lord, an increase of faith, hope and charity.”
From the Council of Trent, session 6:
CHAPTER X
THE INCREASE OF THE JUSTIFICATION RECEIVED
Having, therefore, been thus justified and made the friends and domestics of God, advancing from virtue to virtue, they are renewed, as the Apostle says, day by day, that is, mortifying the members of their flesh, and presenting them as instruments of justice unto sanctification, they, through the observance of the commandments of God and of the Church, faith cooperating with good works, increase in that justice received through the grace of Christ and are further justified, as it is written:
He that is just, let him be justified still; and, Be not afraid to be justified even to death; and again, Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?
This increase of justice holy Church asks for when she prays:
“Give unto us, O Lord, an increase of faith, hope and charity.”
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annad347
Guest
I do not know what that means, just say Catholic never said they work for grace.
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Julius_Caesar
Guest
A strawman is an argument created while not addressing the opponent’s argument. No one here has said we work for grace. Ergo you are debating a strawman. :man_shrugging:t6:Julius_Caesar:
I do not know what that means, just say Catholic never said they work for grace.
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Dan_Defender
Guest
Yes. Good works are the fruits of our faith. Without them, we are like demons, who indeed know of God but do not do His will.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
annad347 . . .
How can anyone know they believed enough or had faith enough, for God’s grace?
And the fact in both cases in this world (unless God gives you a special grace as Vico said) you can’t.
You cannot earn God’s grace on your own. It is a gratuitous GIFT.
They can’t but they CAN have a very good idea that they are working in God’s grace.
That is WHY St. Paul tells us to examine ourselves.
And St. Paul said he does this too, so he does not “lose the prize”.
But once he gives you that Gift (via Baptism), and now UNITED to Him, then we CAN merit more grace (always united to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith too) and bear fruit that will last. We can “earn” interest (see Matthew 25:14-30 leading up to the above verses in the OP).
We CAN united to God in the Spirit in a special way through Jesus sow unto Eternal Life.
Cathoholic
You COULD ask the same question about faith.
How can anyone know they believed enough or had faith enough, for God’s grace?
And the fact in both cases in this world (unless God gives you a special grace as Vico said) you can’t.
You cannot earn God’s grace on your own. It is a gratuitous GIFT.
They can’t but they CAN have a very good idea that they are working in God’s grace.
That is WHY St. Paul tells us to examine ourselves.
And St. Paul said he does this too, so he does not “lose the prize”.
But once he gives you that Gift (via Baptism), and now UNITED to Him, then we CAN merit more grace (always united to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith too) and bear fruit that will last. We can “earn” interest (see Matthew 25:14-30 leading up to the above verses in the OP).
We CAN united to God in the Spirit in a special way through Jesus sow unto Eternal Life.
God bless.
Cathoholic
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fhansen
Guest
From the catechism:
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God’s wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
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