Matthew 28:19 A Forgery?

[bmonk]

How convenient.

Who said I was hiding behind the term Apostolic. I am proud to be Apostolic and it is a Oneness Pentecostal faith that was founded on the day of Pentecost.

Who wrote the Didache anyway?:

I believe you got the wrong quote to respond to–it sounds like you are answering Ruthie Again.

One of the problems with a church that claims to be founded on the day of Pentecost–except for the Catholics and the Orthodox–is the gap in the community between that event and when the church reappears.

 

[BobCatholic]

Who said I was hiding behind the term Apostolic. I am proud to be Apostolic and it is a Oneness Pentecostal faith that was founded on the day of Pentecost.

Who wrote the Didache anyway?:

If you were truly Apostolic, or your church was, you would know the answer, since you guys would have one of the oldest extant copies. Our Church does. Your church doesn’t.

Should I remind you? You didn’t answer my question.

Please do so.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost…6&postcount=23

 

[mercytruth]

I was talking to a friend who is a Pentacostal Oneness believer (they deny the Trinity) and he made the claim that the earliest manuscripts of Matthew that we have today do not have the Trinitarian Baptism Formula in them. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

I am not asking for help defending the Trinity or what other scripture passages say about the Trinity or even what the fathers have to say, I am interested in rebutting this one, solitary, very specific point.

So does anybody know if the earliest manuscripts that we have today in fact do have the Trinitarian Baptism Formula or is text missing? I don’t even know what the earliest manuscripts are called so in your response if you could call out what manuscripts have the formula and which don’t along with estimated dates of composition, I will be most grateful.

The Didache, one of the oldest Christian documents that we have apart from the NT includes the baptism scripture found in Matthew 28:19. Ireneaus of 180 AD also quotes this scripture. So if it is a forgery, it happened before 120 AD. or so.

Bishop Cyprian says in his 72nd epistle that baptisms which were performed in the name of Jesus Christ (as found in the book of Acts) were performed on Jewish believers, or non Jewish Gentiles converting to Judaism who already had been baptized with the faith of the one true God and Father.

Baptisms in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit were to be performed on catechumens who came from pagan idolatry.

God’s peace be with you

micah

 

[BobCatholic]

Bishop Cyprian says in his 72nd epistle that baptisms which were performed in the name of Jesus Christ (as found in the book of Acts) were performed on Jewish believers, or non Jewish Gentiles converting to Judaism who already had been baptized with the faith of the one true God and Father.

But would that still be valid since it omits baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit?

 

[mercytruth]

But would that still be valid since it omits baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit?

You do ask a good question, this aspect of baptism in the name of the Holy Spirit, Bishop Cyprian did not address except to say in this regard to the baptism of the Jews:

For the case of the Jews under the apostles was one, but the condition of the Gentiles is another. The former, because they had already gained the most ancient baptism of the law of Moses, were to be baptized also in the name of Jesus Christ, in conformity with what Peter tells them in the Acts of the Apostles, saying, "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
(Epistle 72, paragraph 17, The Epistles of Cyprian)

This is conjecture on my part, but the Holy Spirit was known to be manifested to the prophets of the OT. Thus, some awareness of the undestanding and manifestation of the Holy Spirit would previously be known to the Jewish people. In addition, they did not have to be discipled as much as the Gentile nations, since they knew the law of Moses.

Gentile pagan nations would need to be taught about the law of Moses, the prophets, and the teachings of Jesus Christ. In other words, they needed to be taught about the one true God and Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit before they could be baptized.

God’s peace be with you

micah

 

[Ruthie_again]

Who said I was hiding behind the term Apostolic. I am proud to be Apostolic and it is a Oneness Pentecostal faith that was founded on the day of Pentecost.

That would be me. I apologize; I was wrong. I hadn’t realized that the Oneness Pentecostals had differently named sects.