Matthew: Joseph's Dreams

[Zach]

Did Joseph have three or four dreams in which the angel of the Lord appeared? The first three (announcing Mary conceived by the holy spirit, telling Joseph to take his family to Egypt, telling Joseph it’s safe to return to Israel) all state “the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said”.

Here is chapter 2:19-22, starting with the third dream.

“When Herod had died, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the child’s life are dead. He rose, took the child and his mother, and went to the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was ruling over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go back there. And because he had been warned in a dream, he departed for the region of Galilee.”

It’s not clear if the dream in “and because he had been warned in a dream, he departed for the region of Galilee” is a separate dream, making it the fourth dream, or if it is part of the third dream mentioned in the verses above it and quoted in this post. It’s not introduced with the “the angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph” as is the three other dreams. Also it seems the dream telling him it’s safe to return would specify it’s safe to return to Galilee but not Judea because Archelaus ruled over Judea. Rather than Joseph hearing about Archelaus and then having a fourth dream Warning him about it.

 

[Gorgias]

It’s not clear if the dream in “and because he had been warned in a dream, he departed for the region of Galilee” is a separate dream,

If it wasn’t because of a subsequent dream, then the text makes less sense, doesn’t it?

It reduces to:

• Joseph hears that Archelaus succeeded Herod
• Joseph fears to return to Judea
• it doesn’t really matter, anyway, since he had been warned in a dream, so he went to Galilee instead

There’s a non sequitur there, if there’s not a distinct dream that warns, no?

Moreover, if Joseph heard that Archelaus was in power, and that caused him to fear, what was it that the dream warned? I’d say that it was the subsequent instruction “go to Nazareth”, no?

 

[Zach]

I agree the text makes less sense if it wasn’t a separate dream. Most of what I read online states there are four dreams. I brought it up because the fourth dream isn’t introduced by
"the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said” as are the other three. This doesn’t prove anything it’s just curious why it deviates from the other three dreams. And leaving the text aside, wouldn’t seem to make more sense to warn him not to go to Judea in the third dream where he’s told it’s safe to return to Israel? He’s told it’s safe to return to Israel but it’s not safe to return to Israel, only a part of Israel. He has to be told a second time to what part of Israel it’s safe to return?

 

[Gorgias]

wouldn’t seem to make more sense to warn him not to go to Judea in the third dream where he’s told it’s safe to return to Israel? He’s told it’s safe to return to Israel but it’s not safe to return to Israel, only a part of Israel. He has to be told a second time what part of Israel is safe to return?

• “Joseph?”
  • “Yes, Lord?”
• “Go back to Israel.”
  • “Yes, Lord!”
  • (walking back to Israel)…
  • “Hmm… it’s dangerous in Judea. I’m afraid.”
  • (walking some more)…
  • “Meh… I think I’m gonna go to Judea. It’ll be ok.”
• “Joseph?”
  • “Yes, Lord?”
• “Don’t go back to Judea.”
  • “Oh. Right. Not Judea. Yes, Lord!”

 

[Dan_Defender]

It was a separate dream. And the holy family had to go to Nazareth to fulfill the prophecy as Matt 2:23 tells us.

 

[Zach]

The thing about that is, in contrast to all the Old Testament prophecies mentioned in Matthew, that prophecy doesn’t directly appear in the OT. It could refer to prophetic words that sound similar to Nazareth. For instance, the Hebrew word for branch in Isaiah 11:1 “from the root of Jesse a branch shall blossom” is similar to Nazareth. So perhaps the word for branch is associated with the name of the town Nazareth.

 

[Dan_Defender]

Yes or perhaps that prophecy was part of the oral tradition of the Jews.

 

[Gorgias]

So perhaps the word for branch is associated with the name of the town Nazareth.

That’s one theory that’s out there. It makes it hard to square with the question “can anything good come out of Nazareth?”, though…

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Nathanael didn’t have Jesus opening the Scriptures to him yet. He would do this two years later.

 

[Gorgias]

Nathanael didn’t have Jesus opening the Scriptures to him yet. He would do this two years later.

It was a saying, Julius. He didn’t coin it himself. In other words, a culture steeped in the Scriptures apparently didn’t see the name “Nazareth” connected to the etymology you’re suggesting…

 

[Julius_Caesar]

It was a saying, Julius. He didn’t coin it himself. In other words, a culture steeped in the Scriptures apparently didn’t see the name “Nazareth” connected to the etymology

Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying and what Luke recorded. Otherwise Jesus wouldn’t have done this after rising from death:

He said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.
Luke 24:44‭-‬45 NABRE

It was prophesied that Messiah would ride into Jerusalem on a donkey.

His disciples did not understand this at first, but when Jesus had been glorified they remembered that these things were written about him and that they had done this for him.
John 12:16 NABRE