"Maturbation is normal." That doesn't mean it's OK

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The_Reginator

The_Reginator

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I was just watching Sex & Morality

I have oft heard the argument that “masturbation isn’t wrong, it’s normal”.
This part of the presentation addresses this idea in a way I had never thought of before:
There is of course the popular culture response that masturbation is normal … everyone
does it … so what’s the big deal. Many things can be considered as normal and still be
wrong.
The Church often understands the word NORMAL in the context of normal or usual for
human beings weakened by the material effects of original sin.
It is for example, NORMAL for people to get sick, lose their tempers, lie, cheat, gossip,
yet none of these should be thought of as good.
For some people arriving late to work or leaving early is quite normal, but ask their boss
or colleagues if such NORMAL behavior is good and you will undoubtedly receive a
very unambiguous response.
Click to expand...
Ah yes. Of course. Just because something is ‘normal’ does not at all mean that it is good.
[To think that normal = good reminds me of that old argument that simply because homosexual behaviour can be observed in nature that it is therefore ‘natural’. Just because some activity is present in the lower life forms does not mean that it is the normal or natural way to behave. What we see is an anomaly. I could go on … ]
 
Right. It’s “normal” in the sense of “widespread,” but not in the sense of “normative.”
 
Yeah, sin is normal too. Ever hear of original sin? We’re all born with it. Since we’re “born that way” (unlike homosexuals), that means “if it feels good, do it”. We have an even better excuse! Being an alcoholic or drug addict is normal, so, we should all drink, eat, and be merry, for tomorrow we shall die (and there is no Hell).

I never heard that last one through my entire recovery from dope addiction. O how I would have loved to have heard it at first, when I still desired to be an addict, when I had not travelled far enough away to see the negatives for what they truly were. And it’s morally equivalent to the first. The first is actually stronger, as sin is normative: everyone has it, every last single thing in this creation. Only about 85% of people masturbate, from what I remember (70% of females and 97% of males: world population 53%/47%), but I think that statistic is from Kinsey, and we all know how reliable his studies were. :rolleyes:
 
Back in the 1970s, I was talking to a man at a public event about God. His wife overheard us talking and came over to tell me, with an angry tone in her voice, “Your religion says that my son can’t masturbate!” By the way, her husband’s response to me was: “God? Show me God. If you can show me God I might believe in him.”

I simply ended the conversation since I had said my peace.

Peace,
Ed
 
I’ve never been tempted to masturbate nor have I ever masturbated. I heard this mentioned as a teen and honestly I accepted the Church’s teaching completely. I found the idea that people did this really disturbing, but thought it was rare. Every time this was ever addressed to me by secular people,it was always “No you’re completely normal so don’t feel guilty about it.” and I was like “uh, I don’t do it. So shouldn’t you be saying I’m not normal if this is indeed normal?”

Once I realized just how common this problem was, it took me several years to get over my absolute disgust at the world.

That’s not to say that I don’t sin. I definitely do have a very inward focus. In fact, while I’ve never read anything directly naming this as a sin, I’ve realize most of this inward focus directs itself on a lack of interest I have in people when I first meet them. I find engaging in small talk absolutely boring. I have trouble keeping my attention on the conversation and often want to just give up and leave and find something more interesting to focus on. It seems my most dominant reason for trying to socialize with people is wanting their affirmation and not feeling lonely. So I suppose it relates but such loneliness has never been sought to be solved through masturbation. Watching too much TV, spending too much time online…its more of that sort of thing.
 
It’s normal to have temptations to want to do it, but giving into it isn’t right. At least not according to Christian faith. Although would it be bad to masturbate without thinking of bad thoughts? I’m not sure thats even possible. Of course the case with guys, it will always be wrong because hes ‘spilling his seed’, but what about girls? If a girl masturbated but didn’t think of anything bad, then what is it then? Still sinful? How?
 
twoangels said:
I’ve never been tempted to masturbate nor have I ever masturbated. I heard this mentioned as a teen and honestly I accepted the Church’s teaching completely. I found the idea that people did this really disturbing, but thought it was rare. Every time this was ever addressed to me by secular people,it was always “No you’re completely normal so don’t feel guilty about it.” and I was like “uh, I don’t do it. So shouldn’t you be saying I’m not normal if this is indeed normal?”

Once I realized just how common this problem was, it took me several years to get over my absolute disgust at the world.
Click to expand...
Wow. In my entire life, I’ve never, ever, met anyone who was not tempted to do it. I’m going to hasten a guess that this is rare! Perhaps it has to do with a person’s natural, inherited hormonal drive? And people born with a lower sex drive don’t have the physical desire to do it as much as those who have a high sex drive?
And of course, if you are taught from a very young age that is is very, very wrong to do and you truly believe it, like you do…then for some, that would override any desire to do it I suppose.
 
heaintheavy said:
Wow. In my entire life, I’ve never, ever, met anyone who was not tempted to do it. I’m going to hasten a guess that this is rare! Perhaps it has to do with a person’s natural, inherited hormonal drive? And people born with a lower sex drive don’t have the physical desire to do it as much as those who have a high sex drive?
And of course, if you are taught from a very young age that is is very, very wrong to do and you truly believe it, like you do…then for some, that would override any desire to do it I suppose.
Click to expand...
Ive never heard of that either. But, more power to her. 😃
 
What I would like to meet is a person who has never masturbated who has had no difficulties consumating their marriage.
 
I believe that the truth behind the teaching of masturbation being sinful is the misunderstanding of reproduction in ancient times. It was only in the several hundred years I believe that microscopes let us understand the how a baby is really made.

When you believe that semen is really microscopic babies, it’s understandable that dumping all those tiny babies on the floor would be wrong.

Unfortunately, since the church by it’s own rules can’t ever admit they were wrong on this sort of teaching, now its wrong because its not unitive sex and not properly ordered and so on.

I think that one poster hit the nail on the head when it come to language and definitions. Most people hear the words “normal” and “natural” and think totally different things then a Catholic does.
 
Bell(name removed by moderator) said:
I believe that the truth behind the teaching of masturbation being sinful is the misunderstanding of reproduction in ancient times. It was only in the several hundred years I believe that microscopes let us understand the how a baby is really made.

When you believe that semen is really microscopic babies, it’s understandable that dumping all those tiny babies on the floor would be wrong.

Unfortunately, since the church by it’s own rules can’t ever admit they were wrong on this sort of teaching, now its wrong because its not unitive sex and not properly ordered and so on.

I think that one poster hit the nail on the head when it come to language and definitions. Most people hear the words “normal” and “natural” and think totally different things then a Catholic does.
Click to expand...
Actually ancient times had many different theories over how babies were made. They did not all believe that the semen was in fact little babies. Also the sin is not limited to males.

There is definitely something very disordered about masturbation. There is no doubt about that. I don’t even know why a person would want to climax by themselves. It seems that hormonally you need your spouse there to cling to and bond with. Without the spouse being there, I can’t imagine the experience not bringing about the most severe feelings of loneliness and depression.
 
Wow someone who has never been tempted you are lucky. Even still, those figures 85% still seem high to me. I just can’t wrap my head around it that it is THAT widespread.

ps. I haven’t committed this sin in over a year.
 
I used to think masturbation was normal too. It wasn’t something that came naturally too me, I had heard of it through a neighbour of mine and did it from there.
The impure thoughts that had to enter my head to perform it with satisfaction got worse and worse. Then satisfaction was only achieved through porn AND more porn and then thats where it goes crazy and you look for new things to masturbate over.

This changes your perception of reality to an extent you begin to feel that you can only achieve sexual satisfaction with a women that JUST DOES NOT EXIST.
Even your perception of what a women should look like when you are looking for a partner change. The consequences became worse than I originally thought.
The older I got the more I understood why it was wrong.
The solution was to stop watching porn at first then to completely withdraw from the temptation, but the easiest way to stop is through PRAYER!!!

I dont think people really understand the power of prayer. WOW!!!
 
I fell into this sin and many others over the course of my teenage life. However, I never considered it normal, and I was always ashamed and seeking a way out whenever I weakened or sinned in this way.

I would say, however, that the two biggest obstacles to overcoming it were the difficulty of mastering my thoughts (the first and final battleground with a sin like this,) and the fact that many of the teachings are phrased somewhat insufficiently in the copies of the modern catechism, which I had access to.

Of course, the church’s teaching turned out to be right, and deep down, I never questioned that. What I questioned was “when do I begin sinning, and how can I prevent myself from reaching that point?” It’s a hard thing to deal with, made that much harder if your tendency to reflect and contemplate frustrates you when you don’t arrive at concrete answers.

Then, of course, there’s the multiplying of the temptations when you’re so different in personality from everyone else you know, that you have literally no one to relate to. Loneliness -really- amplifies the temptations of this sin.
 
twoangels said:
I’ve never been tempted to masturbate nor have I ever masturbated. I heard this mentioned as a teen and honestly I accepted the Church’s teaching completely. I found the idea that people did this really disturbing, but thought it was rare. Every time this was ever addressed to me by secular people,it was always “No you’re completely normal so don’t feel guilty about it.” and I was like “uh, I don’t do it. So shouldn’t you be saying I’m not normal if this is indeed normal?”.
Click to expand...
Thank you for saying that. I agree. I know lot’s of women apparently do masturbate. But like you I’ve never been tempted and I’m sure a sizeable minority (maybe more) of women
are the same.
 
Death is normal. Doesn’t mean its good.
(same can be said for disease, viruses, floods, volcanoes exploding and so on and so forth)
 
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