May a Catholic partake of Communion at a Lutheran service?

[kage_ar]

This question came up over in Family Life. As it was taking the original post far off topic, I am posting here so the discussion may continue.

These were two of the posts:

My wife’s priest looks the other way about the fact that she receives communion in a Lutheran Church when she attends calling it a matter of informed conscience with any bad being far outweighed by the good. Explain please?

All I know is that two priests and a Canon lawyer gave the go ahead on it after a meeting with the area Bishop. Something about unity of family and the fact con and transubtantiation are not so far apart and belief in real presence. Does the fact my Pastor is a former priest play a role in it?

I posted the Catechism references in intercommunion, those were not accepted.

 

[crazzeto]

Absolutly not, our beliefs are incompatible. By receiving communion in a Lutheran service you are stating that you agree with the entirty of Lutheran teachings. The only time a Catholic may receive communion at a non-catholic service, is with speacial permission from an Orthodox Bishop, at an Orthodox Mass. And there must not be any Catholic Church around.

 

[ChadS]

I have to agree with crazeto, your wife should not take communion at the Lutheran church. The priest is mistaken to say it’s all right to do so also. Taking communion at a protestant service implies a shared belief or unity in doctrine that isn’t there. That’s the same reason why protestants are not admitted to the Holy Eucharist in Catholic churches.

My family belongs to and stil worships in the United Methodist Church and I am the only Catholic in the whole group. However when I go home to visit and attend services with them I will not take communion, even if I’m the only person left sitting in my pew while everybody else goes up to the altar rail to receive.

Just curious though which sections of the catechism did you cite on intercommunion?

ChadS

 

[kage_ar]

I have to agree with crazeto, your wife should not take communion at the Lutheran church. The priest is mistaken to say it’s all right to do so also. Taking communion at a protestant service implies a shared belief or unity in doctrine that isn’t there. That’s the same reason why protestants are not admitted to the Holy Eucharist in Catholic churches.

My family belongs to and stil worships in the United Methodist Church and I am the only Catholic in the whole group. However when I go home to visit and attend services with them I will not take communion, even if I’m the only person left sitting in my pew while everybody else goes up to the altar rail to receive.

Just curious though which sections of the catechism did you cite on intercommunion?

ChadS

All - this is not my wife (I am a practicing Catholic wife myself). The OP’s name is in the quote.

This is from another thread, another poster - I was simply trying to asssit another thread before it got locked for going off topic

Catechism quote I posted was:

**1400 **Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, “have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders.” It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, “when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory.”

 

[JRKH]

Absolutly not, our beliefs are incompatible. By receiving communion in a Lutheran service you are stating that you agree with the entirty of Lutheran teachings. The only time a Catholic may receive communion at a non-catholic service, is with speacial permission from an Orthodox Bishop, at an Orthodox Mass. And there must not be any Catholic Church around.

References please.

I was one who raised a question in this matter and would be interested in supporting documentation in addition to the catachism.

The person in question has discussed this with two priest, and a canon lawyer who, as I understand it also ran it by the local bishop.
In the particulars of this case it was decided that the persons conscience was properly formed and that they understood the difference.

I took this to be that, she knows that when taking the “communion” at the Lutheran service, she is not receiving the Real Presence of Christ. That such communion is no substitute for communion at her Catholic Church.

So - I am not advocating catholics in general going to other churches and taking communion, but it appears that, in this case the person has taken the proper steps to assure that she is not committing a sin by so doing.

Here is a LINK to the other thread. The relevent posts begin at number 49 on page 4

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Just to clarify,
I think that the question I have in this is not so much the general idea of participating in non-catholic communions, but rather the idea that this woman DID seek the council of her pastor, and others knowledgable in Church Law and the intent there-of.
So she has - in fact - “Told it to the Church” (Mt 18:17)
Having received the decision of the Church she is acting in good, and well formed, conscience on that decision.

Peace
James

 

[kage_ar]

Just to clarify,
I think that the question I have in this is not so much the general idea of participating in non-catholic communions, but rather the idea that this woman DID seek the council of her pastor, and others knowledgable in Church Law and the intent there-of.
So she has - in fact - “Told it to the Church” (Mt 18:17)
Having received the decision of the Church she is acting in good, and well formed, conscience on that decision.

Peace
James

I pointed out there that two priests and a Canon lawyer don’t beat a “full house”-

 

[ChadS]

Kage, I apologize for the misunderstanding, but then again my answer still remains the same. You were absolutely right to point out that passage from the Catechism and despite what the priest and two canon lawyers say she should not take communion at the Lutheran church.

One thing I noticed is this man’s wife seems to be taking a sort of Protestant approach to deciding what is right here. She went to the priest and for a Protestant going to the minister with a sticky question is okay since there usually isn’t anywhere else to go for advice. In the Catholic Church we do have those higher levels to go to, like the Catechism. I’m not saying she shouldn’t talk to her priest, but if his answer differs from that of the Catechism, I say stick with the Catechism.

ChadS

 

[TheosisM]

A Catholic cannot partake of Communion in a Lutheran church. Nor can they partake of Communion in any other “Protestant” church. A Catholic can partake of Communion in an Orthodox Church, with permission from their bishop. The Catholic Church sees the Orthodox Church as having valid apostolic succession, and therefore valid sacraments. This is not the same with Lutheran churches. In fact, members of the Orthodox Church, Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are allowed to partake in Catholic communion, with permission from their own authorities. (I have seen this stated in the pamphlets handed out at the National Shrine and St. Patrick’s Cathedral)

 

[ChadS]

A Catholic cannot partake of Communion in a Lutheran church. Nor can they partake of Communion in any other “Protestant” church. A Catholic can partake of Communion in an Orthodox Church, with permission from their bishop. The Catholic Church sees the Orthodox Church as having valid apostolic succession, and therefore valid sacraments. This is not the same with Lutheran churches. In fact, members of the Orthodox Church, Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are allowed to partake in Catholic communion, with permission from their own authorities. (I have seen this stated in the pamphlets handed out at the National Shrine and St. Patrick’s Cathedral)

Theosis, I’m not sure you’re quite correct on one thing in your answer. I do not believe a Catholic needs permission from his bishop to receive communion in an Orthodox church, but they do need the permission of that Orthodox priest. In the case of the Orthodox they are completely free to receive in a Catholic church with no permission from the local Catholic bishop, but they would need the permission of their bishop.

ChadS

 

[josephdaniel29]

References please.

I was one who raised a question in this matter and would be interested in supporting documentation in addition to the catachism.

The person in question has discussed this with two priest, and a canon lawyer who, as I understand it also ran it by the local bishop.
In the particulars of this case it was decided that the persons conscience was properly formed and that they understood the difference.

I took this to be that, she knows that when taking the “communion” at the Lutheran service, she is not receiving the Real Presence of Christ. That such communion is no substitute for communion at her Catholic Church.

So - I am not advocating catholics in general going to other churches and taking communion, but it appears that, in this case the person has taken the proper steps to assure that she is not committing a sin by so doing.

Here is a LINK to the other thread. The relevent posts begin at number 49 on page 4

Peace
James

The canons not only forbid communion with heretics.

We order any Bishop, or Presbyter, that has accepted any heretics’ Baptism, or sacrifice, to be deposed; for “what consonancy hath Christ with Beliar? or what part hath the believer with an infidel?” CANON XLVI of the Holy Apostles

But even praying with them.

“Let any Bishop, or Presbyter, or deacon that merely joins in prayer with heretics be suspended, but if he had permitted them to perform any service as Clergymen, let him be deposed.” Canon XLV of the Holy Apostles

And.

“If any clergymen, or laymen, enter a synagogue of Jews, or of heretics, to pray, let him be both deposed and excommunicated.” Canon LXV of the Holy Apostles

Of course in modern American society we sometimes go to Protestant services out of love for friends and family. Under no circumstances should we receive communion.

Yours in Christ
Joe

 

[Middleman]

I haven’t done it but I don’t see why our Church makes such a big deal about this. Of course, most everyone at this forum will disagree with me, but that’s how I feel.

 

[ChadS]

Agreed.

ChadS

 

[crazzeto]

References please.

I was one who raised a question in this matter and would be interested in supporting documentation in addition to the catachism.

The person in question has discussed this with two priest, and a canon lawyer who, as I understand it also ran it by the local bishop.
In the particulars of this case it was decided that the persons conscience was properly formed and that they understood the difference.

I took this to be that, she knows that when taking the “communion” at the Lutheran service, she is not receiving the Real Presence of Christ. That such communion is no substitute for communion at her Catholic Church.

So - I am not advocating catholics in general going to other churches and taking communion, but it appears that, in this case the person has taken the proper steps to assure that she is not committing a sin by so doing.

Here is a LINK to the other thread. The relevent posts begin at number 49 on page 4

Peace
James

James, how much more do you really need than this:

usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt1art3.shtml

1400
Ecclesial communities derived from the Reformation and separated from the Catholic Church, "have not preserved the proper reality of the Eucharistic mystery in its fullness, especially because of the absence of the sacrament of Holy Orders."239 It is for this reason that, for the Catholic Church, Eucharistic intercommunion with these communities is not possible. However these ecclesial communities, "when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper . . . profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and await his coming in glory."240

This is the Church teaching, as Catholics we must fully accept Church teaching. These things aren’t just arbatrary, we have these doctrines and teachings in place for a reason. When we accept communion as a community, it’s our assent that we fully accept all the teachings of the Church, specifically the Church in which we are receiving communion. We can not accept communion in non-Catholic churches, again out side of the rare case that you have traveled to say, Russia, and all you have around you are Russian Orthodox Churches. In that speacial case, you can seek the permission of the Bishop of the diocese which you are in to take communion while you are there.

 

[heathernoel]

But really, why would a Catholic WANT to take part of a Lutheran communion? At the very heart of it is the fact that the Eucharist exists only through a Catholic church…

I don’t mean that as snide, really, I don’t. But having come from the protestant “Communion once a month” tradition, and wanting, but not able to receive the Eucharist, I don’t see how the Lutheran Communion would even compare.

I’m interested in the answers. Thanks!

Heather
(please be gentle…LOL)

 

[crazzeto]

But really, why would a Catholic WANT to take part of a Lutheran communion? At the very heart of it is the fact that the Eucharist exists only through a Catholic church…

I don’t mean that as snide, really, I don’t. But having come from the protestant “Communion once a month” tradition, and wanting, but not able to receive the Eucharist, I don’t see how the Lutheran Communion would even compare.

I’m interested in the answers. Thanks!

Heather
(please be gentle…LOL)

Honestly… Great question Heather. I hate to say it, but I think the answer is people just don’t even know what the Eucharist is anymore. What a change from the middle ages when Catholic Churches struggled to get people to take communion because they felt they weren’t worth to accept Jesus into their bodies like this. Today people seem not even to understand that it is Jesus they’re accepting.

 

[crazzeto]

Dude, I was trying to give a reasnoble example of where a Catholic might actually receive communion out side of a Catholic Church Quit raining on my paraid here

 

[kage_ar]

How about an Encyclical?

Ecclesia de Eucharistia

vatican.va/edocs/ENG0821/_INDEX.HTM

1. The Catholic Church’s teaching on the relationship between priestly ministry and the Eucharist and her teaching on the Eucharistic Sacrifice have both been the subject in recent decades of a fruitful dialogue in the area of ecumenism. We must give thanks to the Blessed Trinity for the significant progress and convergence achieved in this regard, which lead us to hope one day for a full sharing of faith. Nonetheless, the observations of the Council concerning the Ecclesial Communities which arose in the West from the sixteenth century onwards and are separated from the Catholic Church remain fully pertinent: “The Ecclesial Communities separated from us lack that fullness of unity with us which should flow from Baptism, and we believe that especially because of the lack of the sacrament of Orders they have not preserved the genuine and total reality of the Eucharistic mystery. Nevertheless, when they commemorate the Lord’s death and resurrection in the Holy Supper, they profess that it signifies life in communion with Christ and they await his coming in glory”.

The Catholic faithful, therefore, while respecting the religious convictions of these separated brethren, must refrain from receiving the communion distributed in their celebrations, so as not to condone an ambiguity about the nature of the Eucharist and, consequently, to fail in their duty to bear clear witness to the truth. This would result in slowing the progress being made towards full visible unity. Similarly, it is unthinkable to substitute for Sunday Mass ecumenical celebrations of the word or services of common prayer with Christians from the aforementioned Ecclesial Communities, or even participation in their own liturgical services. Such celebrations and services, however praiseworthy in certain situations, prepare for the goal of full communion, including Eucharistic communion, but they cannot replace it.

The fact that the power of consecrating the Eucharist has been entrusted only to Bishops and priests does not represent any kind of belittlement of the rest of the People of God, for in the communion of the one body of Christ which is the Church this gift redounds to the benefit of all.

 

[crazzeto]

Aaaaaaaaack, they should drop the “Roman” out from in front of Catholic. We’re the Catholic Church

 

[heathernoel]

Honestly… Great question Heather. I hate to say it, but I think the answer is people just don’t even know what the Eucharist is anymore. What a change from the middle ages when Catholic Churches struggled to get people to take communion because they felt they weren’t worth to accept Jesus into their bodies like this. Today people seem not even to understand that it is Jesus they’re accepting.

Funny. As a Methodist, I always felt unworthy. Now, I know I am not worthy, but I am loved and He wants me there. I’m on fire for it! I don’t know how someone could ever leave Her!!

shrinking back